Episode 183
TV BONUS: Severance: Season 2, Episodes 9-10
In this episode of Left of the Projector, I’m joined by Smirk and Red to discuss the final two episodes of Season 2 of Severance. We analyze the emotional depth and intricate narrative of the finale, focusing on the character arcs of Mark, Gemma, and the Egan family within Lumen's oppressive corporate culture.
We explore themes of control, moral ambiguity, and the duality of their 'Innie' and 'Outie' selves, while reflecting on the show's dark humor and symbolism. As we wrap up, we speculate on the unresolved themes of exploitation and identity, anticipating how they may evolve in future seasons. Ultimately, Severance challenges us to confront societal compartmentalization and the quest for wholeness.
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Transcript
Evan: Hello and welcome to Left of the Projector. I'm your host, Evan,
Speaker:Evan: back again with another TV discussion from the left.
Speaker:Evan: This week on the show, we are rounding out our Severance trilogy of episodes
Speaker:Evan: covering the final two, episodes 9 and 10 of Season 2.
Speaker:Evan: And back, of course, to round it out, I have Smirk and Red. Thank you for coming
Speaker:Evan: back one final time on Severance.
Speaker:red: Thank you for having me.
Speaker:smirk: Yeah thank you i'm a little i'm it's bittersweet because i'm sad the show we're
Speaker:smirk: gonna have to probably wait like what two years who knows 70.
Speaker:Evan: They they claimed i sexually it's funny you said that i saw an article that
Speaker:Evan: said they've already started pre-production and they're hoping to release it
Speaker:Evan: in middle of next year so like a year from now wow okay it was it was mostly because of
Speaker:Evan: strike, I think, that led to all the delays from last season.
Speaker:red: That's kind of what happened with most shows. But, and also in like the era
Speaker:red: of streaming, they just sometimes release things like two years later.
Speaker:smirk: It seemed like viewership and interest in the show picked up even more with like the second season.
Speaker:smirk: So maybe they were able to get a little more money and like.
Speaker:red: You know get it done quicker yeah.
Speaker:Evan: And also it seems like if
Speaker:Evan: you're this if you're the studio or netflix or apple whatever you probably don't
Speaker:Evan: mind there being a longer delay then they could just throw a bunch of other
Speaker:Evan: shows at you that are you know coming out like they have a million shows so
Speaker:Evan: you know may as well make will not cancel their apple subscription or whatever
Speaker:Evan: because they claim they lost like a ton of money i saw some absurd number.
Speaker:smirk: But i guess they do that though And somebody else was saying,
Speaker:smirk: like, it's not really about it's it's not really significant for Apple to lose
Speaker:smirk: money because they've had Apple TV for how long now? Hasn't been that long.
Speaker:Evan: Oh, God. Like, you mean like the service like Apple TV Plus?
Speaker:smirk: Yeah.
Speaker:Evan: Five years?
Speaker:smirk: Yeah. And I guess typically with maybe the exception of Netflix,
Speaker:smirk: but even then, probably not.
Speaker:smirk: They don't usually make money for like the first many years.
Speaker:Evan: That's true. It's not like Apple is not making like gobs of money.
Speaker:Evan: It's like, oh, poor Apple Plus TV. They lost a billion dollars, they said.
Speaker:smirk: Yeah, they'll be okay. It's like pocket change. They'll be all right, which makes me sick.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah, I mean, it says that they invested $5 billion per year in content since
Speaker:Evan: its launch in, it doesn't say what year.
Speaker:Evan: But yeah, I mean, I guess it only accounts to 1% of streaming services compared
Speaker:Evan: to Netflix, which is almost 8.5.
Speaker:Evan: So, like, it's a pretty small amount, but.
Speaker:smirk: Yeah, well, they don't have as much content. as the other ones.
Speaker:Evan: No but it's really good like yeah it's like curated tv shows are really good
Speaker:Evan: so i have a question about the like i sort of discussion do we want to just
Speaker:Evan: talk about like episode nine and then ten or just kind of talk about the the
Speaker:Evan: events kind of like as one big movie kind of thing and it's it.
Speaker:smirk: Felt like a movie to me because i watched him right in a row again today it
Speaker:smirk: felt like that but i'm good with whatever.
Speaker:Evan: They feel like they almost could have been, like this last episode we were talking
Speaker:Evan: last time about how it was a really long episode, like almost the length of a movie.
Speaker:Evan: And then the previous one was about 40 minutes. So it's like a two hour.
Speaker:Evan: And it really did, to me, kind of all feel like a movie because the previous
Speaker:Evan: episode was kind of that not related, you know, kind of we were talking about
Speaker:Evan: kind of a weird side episode.
Speaker:Evan: And this one kind of just brought everything that's happened for basically two
Speaker:Evan: seasons, like all together. So.
Speaker:red: Yeah.
Speaker:Evan: What did you both think of the finale? I feel like some of our predictions were actually correct.
Speaker:smirk: Well, Red like 100% nailed it. Like you were one time, I hope you went back
Speaker:smirk: on Reddit or wherever and told all those.
Speaker:red: I do, you guys. I'm not even petty. I just know they remember that I'm right and they're wrong.
Speaker:smirk: So they better know it because you nailed it. Yeah, you were 100% right.
Speaker:Evan: I think we both, I think we all, I don't remember one of us in particular.
Speaker:Evan: i think we also sort of agreed that the ending of the whole we
Speaker:Evan: maybe we didn't get like the very ending where i was a little bit surprised
Speaker:Evan: we can get to that too but you know
Speaker:Evan: seeing gemma and mark kind of
Speaker:Evan: finally meeting and like being together again and then you know of course they
Speaker:Evan: weren't going to just live happily ever after in severance you know universe
Speaker:Evan: it has to have some selfishness that mark apparently has because he's just a
Speaker:Evan: is he just a dick is that just i.
Speaker:smirk: Just i have so many feelings about this.
Speaker:red: Um i do too yeah.
Speaker:smirk: And i don't know if you.
Speaker:red: I fear if we don't go in like an order we're gonna talk almost all about episode
Speaker:red: 10 and not about season or episode 9 at all.
Speaker:Evan: Okay yeah.
Speaker:red: You're right so that i don't really care but for the like sanctity of the viewer
Speaker:red: being able to understand like maybe the order to some extent we should start
Speaker:red: with nine because ten to me i could talk all day.
Speaker:smirk: Yeah no i think you're right because i do have a lot of thoughts about nine
Speaker:smirk: specifically because it was set up so much of what happens in ten.
Speaker:Evan: Well it also really builds the
Speaker:Evan: the thing that you didn't really get at all in this season except for like little
Speaker:Evan: bits here and there is understanding sort of like the egan family and sort of
Speaker:Evan: their stake in all of this and how invested they are And also that it's really
Speaker:Evan: weird to eat eggs cut in tiny pieces.
Speaker:Evan: And also the weirdest line I thought of the whole show was Egan saying to Helena.
Speaker:red: I wish you'd eat it raw.
Speaker:smirk: Just don't ever. Yeah. Like what? I so badly want that man to be bloody gold on camera.
Speaker:smirk: Like I just want him to be absolutely destroyed. He's just such a weird husk
Speaker:smirk: of a person. He's just so gross.
Speaker:red: He is pretty disturbing to bear witness to. Yeah.
Speaker:Evan: Well, I saw a theory for the last one aired, or maybe it was after,
Speaker:Evan: that I read in retrospect,
Speaker:Evan: saying that some people thought that even in the last two episodes,
Speaker:Evan: that it was actually Helena in The Severed Floor and not Heli again.
Speaker:Evan: And I don't buy that at all. I don't.
Speaker:red: So, for what episodes did you say that was for?
Speaker:Evan: The last two. Like, the last, like, at the end. Yeah, so.
Speaker:red: I think I talked to Smirk about this. Sorry, go ahead.
Speaker:Evan: No, I think it was even before that, like when they like sleep together to an
Speaker:Evan: episode six. I don't remember.
Speaker:red: Oh, OK. So she they never I mean, like they do because like Irving's literally about to kill her.
Speaker:red: So like they they do. But I thought that the last episode was Helena again.
Speaker:red: And the actress herself actually was like, stop, because that's not true.
Speaker:red: It was Heli. so yeah i want i was being naive and i wanted to like think wishfully
Speaker:red: but even i forget her name i think it's brit or something like that i don't
Speaker:red: know um her actress was like nope that's not true so.
Speaker:smirk: Which i appreciate because so often they'll be like well i don't know i don't
Speaker:smirk: know yeah shut up just like tell me give me one thing there's so many question
Speaker:smirk: marks just like get rid of one well they like to yeah i.
Speaker:Evan: Mean some shows really like to feed the you know the vague nature and all the
Speaker:Evan: theories and here they like they like to do that but at the same time they also
Speaker:Evan: want people to maybe not just i don't know i don't want to say like ruin it
Speaker:Evan: but in a way like ruin it with like too many stupid theories.
Speaker:smirk: Yeah and i think that's good that
Speaker:smirk: they don't like overly encourage because it is it is exhausting and
Speaker:smirk: we've talked about like the incredibly like goofy
Speaker:smirk: theories about like oh so and so is actually someone else's father and it's
Speaker:smirk: really this guy and it's like shut off like why do you think that you're just
Speaker:smirk: imagining like the weirdest thing that it could be like based on nothing yeah
Speaker:smirk: nonsense but yeah the egg thing was super weird um he tells,
Speaker:smirk: oh no it's later on that he says it to he says it to her eddie but um well.
Speaker:Evan: Then after that is when uh miss huang has to just like ends her end of her fellowship
Speaker:Evan: and has to smash her little like ring toss game it's like.
Speaker:red: That shit made me so sad it was a.
Speaker:smirk: Fuck and.
Speaker:red: I watched that i think i I watched that right after we had our episode where
Speaker:red: we're talking about child labor and possibly pretty much, you know, figured it out.
Speaker:red: But like I was almost near tears and I was like, God damn, I wish I wish post
Speaker:red: was a thing on this podcast so I could just bleep all my awful remarks about Miss Wong.
Speaker:red: Poor little baby girl. We'll miss you forever. I'm so sorry.
Speaker:smirk: It's it's sad and i think she's a good example of the way that like we can get
Speaker:smirk: really frustrated with people who seem to have like bought into very harmful
Speaker:smirk: like ideologies and and are just kind of,
Speaker:smirk: there's sort of an extension and symptomatic of like greater issues
Speaker:smirk: like she's she was annoying and weird and like why is this child here but also
Speaker:smirk: like she's literally kid like that sucks like it's understandable to be like
Speaker:smirk: really frustrated with her and angry and like kind of hate her a little bit
Speaker:smirk: but also yeah that broke my heart too when she had a she had a smash her ring
Speaker:smirk: toss game this is like the only thing she had literally.
Speaker:red: Only thing and what's so funny is i was literally on a different podcast today
Speaker:red: talking about like, you know, people can be like insufferable in crisis and
Speaker:red: it's not their fault because they're literally in crisis.
Speaker:red: And I would consider a Miss Huang situation to be a crisis.
Speaker:red: So even if I was like, oh my God, I can't stand you, the real world application
Speaker:red: would be like, maybe we should save this child, right?
Speaker:red: So, you know, I'm eating my words a little here but children in the world real
Speaker:red: world lumen society deserve nothing but unconditional support even if they're
Speaker:red: doing fuck shit like miss hong.
Speaker:Evan: She's been like brought into this space
Speaker:Evan: by her parents presumably although
Speaker:Evan: i also had a theory that maybe she
Speaker:Evan: doesn't have parents or know who they are and somehow
Speaker:Evan: she was like adopted by this like by uh lumen and that's why they have the birthing
Speaker:Evan: center we see later in the end of the episode episode nine where like i don't
Speaker:Evan: know like we also learned that heli is not you know she has i don't know half
Speaker:Evan: sisters and brothers and things right don't they mention that she has um.
Speaker:red: Egan himself is like i have squire private families or whatever dumbass lingo
Speaker:red: and for a second and like took me a second like did he just say he just like
Speaker:red: has random fucking kids and it was helena's any that he was like yeah you're the best.
Speaker:Evan: One yeah.
Speaker:smirk: When he oh my god yeah and that's we'll talk about that too because that whole
Speaker:smirk: that whole interaction was crazy um i yeah i think this one like that's,
Speaker:smirk: interaction between him and helena
Speaker:smirk: at the beginning and then later
Speaker:smirk: on when he ends up talking to heli and then him at the end like if if we didn't
Speaker:smirk: have the whole like weird cult vibe like this very bizarre sort of like it feels
Speaker:smirk: like they're trying to cultivate a sort of humanity,
Speaker:smirk: that doesn't exist currently like i just i'm i'm trying to put into words like
Speaker:smirk: what do you guys think ultimately they are trying to do with this like.
Speaker:Evan: The goal of what is cold harbor like what are they going to use it.
Speaker:smirk: For yeah because because we don't get to see like what exactly like
Speaker:smirk: obviously she's going to be dead but like i'm just i'm trying
Speaker:smirk: to figure out like how that ties into their whole weird cult thing like
Speaker:smirk: he's a lot
Speaker:smirk: of the way that he speaks about people and the temp
Speaker:smirk: and the cure talks about like the tempers and everything it's sort
Speaker:smirk: of like the original sin thing right like it's it's all the things that are
Speaker:smirk: like wrong with people kind of and you have to tame them and fix them so like
Speaker:smirk: he's not capable of really loving his children in any real sense because he
Speaker:smirk: thinks they're inherently bad like humanity's just bad at the core so,
Speaker:smirk: what the fuck like what are they what is that like what's the goal i just i
Speaker:smirk: don't know i just need to know if you guys have some idea of what that might
Speaker:smirk: be because it's bothering me.
Speaker:red: Um i still like your question is what's the goal of the severance.
Speaker:smirk: Yeah like as far as it pertains to their weird culty thing okay.
Speaker:red: So for me maybe this is like too
Speaker:red: much explanation for it to make sense even as a theory but like
Speaker:red: we talked about it i think on the last episode that like cults need capital
Speaker:red: and one way they do that in the real world is by like welfare fraud like everybody
Speaker:red: gets on welfare and then the cult leader is just like capital um not that's
Speaker:red: not really how that works.
Speaker:red: But you get what I'm saying anyway. They have money. And,
Speaker:red: I kind of viewed the severance as that. I still am kind of basing my theory
Speaker:red: off of they're trying to perfect the severance to sell it, and they need money
Speaker:red: as an ever-growing profit, as a capitalist cult.
Speaker:red: And the severance is just a part of that. I feel like they have their hands in everything, right?
Speaker:red: The birthing experience, I still feel like that falls in line with this concept
Speaker:red: of Like, you can sever to have birth, buy it today.
Speaker:red: Like, you can sever to go to the dentist because we saw Jim at the dentist.
Speaker:red: Like, I, maybe that's just me, like, analyzing it too much, like, as a communist.
Speaker:red: But I feel like it still has to be, like, very tightly wound into,
Speaker:red: like, a critique of capitalism.
Speaker:Evan: I think all of that is correct. But then I also have part of me says the aspect
Speaker:Evan: of them being very like godlike and, you know, kind of revered.
Speaker:Evan: And they have these weird paintings, you know, that Burke throughout season
Speaker:Evan: one is, you know, restoring and putting up.
Speaker:Evan: And they have this very weird way of looking at their themselves,
Speaker:Evan: like in the in the world as, you know, a Jesus Christ or godlike figure.
Speaker:Evan: It seems like they want to control people in a way that would be godlike.
Speaker:Evan: So I think at the end of the day, it comes down to what you're saying,
Speaker:Evan: Red, is this is to make money through all of these things, but at the same time
Speaker:Evan: also control people in a way that shouldn't be able to be controlled.
Speaker:Evan: They're doing like, what's the fucking government test they did for mind control?
Speaker:Evan: I'm blanking on the name.
Speaker:red: MKUltra?
Speaker:Evan: It's like they're MK. I think we even said this in the first episode.
Speaker:Evan: Like, they're very doing MKUltra type of shit.
Speaker:Evan: You know, they just want to do something that is so insane that they will be
Speaker:Evan: revered and, you know, looked at.
Speaker:Evan: And the governments will buy their, you know, their tool for government shit.
Speaker:Evan: And people will do it for, you know, dentists.
Speaker:Evan: And everyone will want to be severed to do things.
Speaker:red: But you see it more in like a holy God way.
Speaker:red: So like, could you mesh your theory with like the severance is so that they
Speaker:red: it's a tier, a tier system, the science of it all severance is a part of like
Speaker:red: making cure clones then.
Speaker:Evan: In some way, though, I think I think that maybe the God aspect is just an excuse, you know.
Speaker:red: OK, I can see that.
Speaker:Evan: So like that's like how they're making it like they're doing
Speaker:Evan: all these things for this power but at the end of
Speaker:Evan: the day they're just controlled and they're led by their
Speaker:Evan: need to make capital for themselves dominate yeah
Speaker:Evan: like imperialism basically i mean
Speaker:Evan: i think so i i think it's like one is
Speaker:Evan: kind of an excuse for the other and it's kind of the whole episode like the
Speaker:Evan: weird interaction you mentioned uh later on when heli sees her father again
Speaker:Evan: and it's all it's just so fucking creepy he's so creepy the little like the
Speaker:Evan: is it the last episode where like there's the the animatronic one of him too like moving around oh.
Speaker:smirk: The cure thing.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah that's.
Speaker:red: Fair though and.
Speaker:Evan: Yes okay.
Speaker:red: Also i feel like the god thing is like kind of a front too because god to them
Speaker:red: is cure right but then is his name jame yeah.
Speaker:smirk: Like a singular jame.
Speaker:Evan: Okay well.
Speaker:red: The one singular jam is um if and correct me if i'm wrong because y'all should
Speaker:red: remember this because you watched it today he seems to like not really love kira like he like,
Speaker:red: like talked about Kier in a way that he was like very upset and angry and that's
Speaker:red: how he was like comparing Helly to him is and that Helly is like super upset
Speaker:red: and angry her and he is do y'all remember that I.
Speaker:Evan: Feel like he's see I think it's like he saw some sort of divert diversion or
Speaker:Evan: like move of the organ like he wants the he wants ultimate control and to be
Speaker:Evan: remembered for what he did for Kier's name, not what, like, Kier did before him.
Speaker:red: Not what Kier did. Okay, so you see, okay, that makes sense.
Speaker:red: So it's his own personal grievance.
Speaker:Evan: It seems like it. I mean, I don't know for sure, but the actor is good.
Speaker:smirk: Yeah, no, I can see that. It's like, he's like in the shadow of this,
Speaker:smirk: like, mythical figure of Kier, and he doesn't really like, everything that they're
Speaker:smirk: doing now will be his legacy.
Speaker:red: Yeah, so he's got to, like, really take it over the top with the separate.
Speaker:Evan: And according to this, he's the eighth CEO of the company?
Speaker:Evan: i forgot that so it's like pretty you know
Speaker:Evan: he wants i'm sure if you know i don't know if they
Speaker:Evan: ever describe what each ceo did and what their accomplishments part
Speaker:Evan: what he wants his to be like the ultimate accomplishment like
Speaker:Evan: cold harbor is essentially to
Speaker:Evan: them as they describe it as like the ultimate ending game
Speaker:Evan: for lumen as a company like yeah okay they made some like watches
Speaker:Evan: or like astronaut food in their you know
Speaker:Evan: vending machines but like this is like the culmination of
Speaker:Evan: and he wants his name to be you know
Speaker:Evan: synonymous with him but we also
Speaker:Evan: get oh sorry go ahead i was the other part of this like the middle part of this
Speaker:Evan: episode is we also get more of irving and we learn about you know he meets with
Speaker:Evan: bert and i think we also see some of the investigative notes,
Speaker:Evan: that uh what's the guy's name who like searches through him drummond oh then
Speaker:Evan: maybe that's the previous episode but we see him like we see all of these you
Speaker:Evan: know his uh notes that he has and he ends up going for a ride you know with
Speaker:Evan: with Bert and Bert is sort of saving him like what do you think Bert did before he.
Speaker:smirk: Seemed inordinately like a little offended but mostly just kind of resigning
Speaker:smirk: himself to the reality that the note's true like he was he was a goon for Lumen like he,
Speaker:smirk: disappeared people and he did their dirty work a lot of the time and i think
Speaker:smirk: he's come to terms with the sort of person he was because of the fact that his
Speaker:smirk: innie was able to have this connection,
Speaker:smirk: and um he decides to take him away because that's that's his sort of redemption
Speaker:smirk: like he was hoping he would have it as an innie and he but that and he doesn't
Speaker:smirk: really exist anymore yeah he didn't even as an innie, he just couldn't get there.
Speaker:smirk: But yeah, I think he was definitely, he was like a,
Speaker:smirk: He's a bad dude. He did some bad stuff. And we talked about that in the last
Speaker:smirk: one, too. We were like, oh, he probably was like a really shady guy.
Speaker:smirk: They talked about his younger days getting up to some stuff.
Speaker:smirk: And I think he kind of told us what that stuff was. Not good.
Speaker:red: Yeah.
Speaker:Evan: And also, something I remember, maybe it was from the first season,
Speaker:Evan: is I think that Bert had become severed because of his church,
Speaker:Evan: like saying that it would almost make him
Speaker:Evan: like ascend to heaven whereas out he
Speaker:Evan: might not so like he could do something inside i'm sure
Speaker:Evan: like the lutheran church is probably like infiltrated by like lumen
Speaker:Evan: or something like you know to recruit people or something but that
Speaker:Evan: also then goes back to like the very godly aspect of things
Speaker:Evan: i don't know it's like this weird thing but to me it
Speaker:Evan: seems like he was bringing people to like the birthing place
Speaker:Evan: or taking someone somewhere or you know like a parent a
Speaker:Evan: mother of one of the people who has a child at the birthing center and
Speaker:Evan: it's like taking her away somewhere to like you know be chopped up or something
Speaker:Evan: and i don't know i don't know why chopped up came to mind but something i think
Speaker:Evan: of uh you know um what is the actor um oh christopher walken like i just think
Speaker:Evan: of him like other movies where he's more of a like a bad guy in this he's,
Speaker:Evan: soft-spoken, you know, family man.
Speaker:red: Yeah.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah. Like, what else, um, what other crazy things sort of happen in this?
Speaker:Evan: I guess this is also when, you know, Mark's sister calls Cobell to kind of get
Speaker:Evan: help because he's, his, like, reintegration is, you know, all messed up, and I don't know.
Speaker:Evan: Like, what do you, like, do you think that the last two episodes sort of,
Speaker:Evan: uh, are Cobell rebelling against Lumen, or it's her trying to,
Speaker:Evan: like, gain favor to then be go.
Speaker:smirk: Back i think she wants she wants uh she's she's
Speaker:smirk: pissed and she's mostly angry for herself
Speaker:smirk: because as we learned in the previous episode she
Speaker:smirk: invented the whole procedure the whole the whole
Speaker:smirk: method by which severance is possible and she never got the recognition
Speaker:smirk: she deserved and she's also been unceremoniously cast
Speaker:smirk: aside so i think
Speaker:smirk: she's i think the uh the bloom was off the
Speaker:smirk: rose and it's interesting that as she's coming to this realization
Speaker:smirk: we see um miss huang
Speaker:smirk: like very much in the same position that
Speaker:smirk: she was in when she was that same age probably
Speaker:smirk: and you know being initiated into
Speaker:smirk: this whole thing and just signing and having
Speaker:smirk: her i don't even know if she can really consent to it because she's a kid
Speaker:smirk: but her life is signed away in service of lumen
Speaker:smirk: um so i did appreciate that juxtaposition a lot um yeah i don't think i don't
Speaker:smirk: know i think her i think her motives are pretty much pure to the extent that
Speaker:smirk: like she's not secretly i don't think she's like secretly helping lumen in any
Speaker:smirk: way i don't think they have anything to gain from what she's doing right now yeah.
Speaker:red: I think that is pretty much over like cobel
Speaker:red: slaving away for lumen that seems like kind of a dead hope and dream of lumen
Speaker:red: probably um but i don't think that she's being entirely like forthcoming about
Speaker:red: her reason i agree with smirk that it's it's largely selfish um and,
Speaker:red: otherwise like i think she is helping mark but it's just because it's she's
Speaker:red: not going to get the recognition of like this was her severance procedure almost
Speaker:red: like she didn't get to kill jimma so that's what she's upset about basically
Speaker:red: if you really want to boil it down to something like simple that's kind of what it is.
Speaker:Evan: Literally actually she wanted
Speaker:Evan: to like see the it's almost like you almost see
Speaker:Evan: the the uh like infighting
Speaker:Evan: between jame and you know cobel as each wanting to gain like credit for the
Speaker:Evan: things they did you know and neither of them is going to get credit it seemed
Speaker:Evan: because it doesn't well doesn't seem to well we'll get to the last episode in a few You're good.
Speaker:red: You're good. It's so hard to continue this off.
Speaker:smirk: Dylan's wife tells him that she kissed his zinni.
Speaker:red: I was kind of shocked that she told him. I feel like even as a viewer,
Speaker:red: knowing Dylan's outie, he wasn't really going to love that.
Speaker:smirk: Yeah.
Speaker:Evan: Is that infidelity?
Speaker:red: Yes, technically.
Speaker:smirk: Because it's a different person, right? I mean, if we answer that question in
Speaker:smirk: the affirmative, then we're acknowledging
Speaker:smirk: that these are fully separate people. which I think they are.
Speaker:red: I think so. I think it's technically infidelity, but I think the better question
Speaker:red: I would ask, just because I'm nosy, is if this was y'all's partners,
Speaker:red: would you consider infidelity?
Speaker:Evan: So if you're Dylan and you found, like, your wife told you or whatever that they had.
Speaker:red: Like, in your current relationship or if you're not in one previous whatever, like.
Speaker:Evan: I think it is, actually, because.
Speaker:red: Like, would you be offended? So you'd be like, I cannot believe you're fucking with my Annie.
Speaker:smirk: I would be, I would be a little, I would definitely be sad.
Speaker:red: Okay, that's fair.
Speaker:smirk: But it would also make me kind of, I feel like I would like to think what I
Speaker:smirk: would do is kind of, like, turn that.
Speaker:smirk: um turn it inward and kind of figure out like what got to this point because
Speaker:smirk: if it's it's it's like how why are they looking for me but not me.
Speaker:red: I think it's redeemable right like they didn't go fuck a random like it's still
Speaker:red: you for all like it's not but it is and so i think it'd be forgivable a little
Speaker:red: weird though i bet you're kind of weird for that yeah.
Speaker:smirk: It's like a little bizarre because that person is functionally like yes they're
Speaker:smirk: an adult but also they're kind of like.
Speaker:red: They're like a little baby it's like she's like seven how could you do this
Speaker:red: okay sorry that's weird but like dylan really is only like a few years old technically as any but.
Speaker:Evan: He also created this other he created
Speaker:Evan: his any you know or i guess you could say he accepted the creation of this other
Speaker:Evan: person and he could also use it it seems like he's also comes to the understanding
Speaker:Evan: that his like audi doesn't have like this confidence in these like aspects of his life that.
Speaker:red: He wishes.
Speaker:Evan: He had but his innie does.
Speaker:red: And so forgetting shit.
Speaker:Evan: And not doing you know.
Speaker:red: Okay not a deadbeat but like largely not a deadbeat because of his innie yeah,
Speaker:red: Dylan's out he really doesn't do anything it seems.
Speaker:smirk: Yeah the only time we see him he's like not remembering to do certain.
Speaker:red: Things and then you know he's.
Speaker:smirk: Like sitting around while the kids are.
Speaker:red: Like if i was friends with his wife i'd be like i think you're gonna have to
Speaker:red: leave him like that's kind of the kind of stuff i'd be telling her so.
Speaker:smirk: Yeah yeah he's not a great partner i think he does want to be and i think he
Speaker:smirk: uh i think maybe this is weirdly like the wake-up call he needs to.
Speaker:red: Do you think so because the vibe i get from dylan's audi is like this is devastating
Speaker:red: and tragic and it is a wake-up call to some extent but he's not going to do
Speaker:red: any better like that's the downfall of his audi is like there's all of these
Speaker:red: pressures like you've got to do better and like he just doesn't.
Speaker:smirk: Yeah i i worry that you're right and you might be i uh i don't know but i'm
Speaker:smirk: hope i'm hoping for the best and.
Speaker:red: That's why i feel like that's the crux of his character is like his any is good
Speaker:red: and his audi just is so like meh that like he exists to be there and make you
Speaker:red: challenge that thought sorry evan well.
Speaker:Evan: I was saying and it's interesting because like he tries to then again quit like
Speaker:Evan: internally he tries to quit but his outies you know won't let him because he
Speaker:Evan: probably realizes out he's like the only good thing about him.
Speaker:red: About him yeah right isn't that fucked imagine
Speaker:red: like because it's you but it's not you like that the any
Speaker:red: develops this whole different existence in terms
Speaker:red: of a personality and all of that so they have your body it is really sad and
Speaker:red: season 10 i think is an interesting like the ending sorry episode 10 the ending
Speaker:red: of it is quite literally there to like our and he's whole persons but anyway
Speaker:red: i'm getting ahead of myself well we're.
Speaker:Evan: Close to that.
Speaker:red: Yeah but it is really sad though to
Speaker:red: see dylan's out he like struggle in the ways that his any it's like so flawless
Speaker:red: and effortless for him um but maybe he does have the self-awareness to do better
Speaker:red: because of that like conversation he has with his zinni where he's like you
Speaker:red: are good i am bad you have to stay alive because you're good and i'm bad yeah.
Speaker:smirk: He needs to know that that possibility exists for him that he could be that
Speaker:smirk: person and maybe there's an argument to be made that they're the two halves
Speaker:smirk: of dylan the innie and the outie are a really good example of,
Speaker:smirk: how environment and your conditions and everything can really set the tone for,
Speaker:smirk: what sort of person you're able to
Speaker:smirk: be like his and he has very different
Speaker:smirk: choices he basically has no choices right like he
Speaker:smirk: doesn't you know he doesn't have any real autonomy um
Speaker:smirk: but he's there and he gets shit done and his audi i think more than anything
Speaker:smirk: he just he he doesn't like he he's failed so often and just floundered so much,
Speaker:smirk: that he...
Speaker:smirk: Yeah, he needs to have him there, because otherwise it's like,
Speaker:smirk: well, no, I could never fucking do anything.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah, that's true. And then sort of like, I mean, to get to the last episode,
Speaker:Evan: you know, the sort of the final piece of, well, actually, I want to mention
Speaker:Evan: one thing that I thought was really funny when Milchick is like calling Mark
Speaker:Evan: to try to get him to come to work.
Speaker:Evan: And he's like, you know, coming up with first like excuses and he like gives
Speaker:Evan: him like the, you know, I've seen a day, you know, kind of thing.
Speaker:Evan: and it's like that's a very uh i
Speaker:Evan: feel like most people who've worked most jobs
Speaker:Evan: could probably relate to you know their boss making like wanting them to come
Speaker:Evan: in when it's like they're not supposed to or you know in this case he was supposed
Speaker:Evan: to but like on a day off and he's like no i need a day and he's like he actually
Speaker:Evan: it's except you know milchuk accepts this because they desperately need him
Speaker:Evan: where i think in probably reality it doesn't usually go that way.
Speaker:red: No and it's i think
Speaker:red: to me it just like i don't think they exist
Speaker:red: to be this way but i perceive it
Speaker:red: this way that this is just another reason that marks
Speaker:red: out he is so like out of touch with reality because what the fuck do you mean
Speaker:red: you're just gonna tell your boss like i just can't like i just have to not come
Speaker:red: today that's like never like you're making up fake dead relatives before you're
Speaker:red: sincerely telling your boss like i just don't want to come to work today like
Speaker:red: let's get so you're like literally like
Speaker:red: photoshopping like a broken ac unit in your house or the positive line on the
Speaker:red: covid test whatever like there's no way you're just gonna tell them it pisses
Speaker:red: me off but to be fair i'm just like have such a bad taste about mark right now
Speaker:red: that everything he did i'm like so stupid like you should have done this instead yeah.
Speaker:smirk: Yeah but point okay oh i just i just wanted to say it was is Devour of Feculents.
Speaker:smirk: That was really nice to see.
Speaker:smirk: Because Milchak is such a complicated character.
Speaker:red: Oh, so complicated. It was good to see him stick up for himself.
Speaker:smirk: Yeah.
Speaker:Evan: What we were saying, I think, in the last one, is that he's...
Speaker:Evan: You know, he is, you know, also sort of brainwashed and brought into this thing
Speaker:Evan: where he sort of has no way out now. He's sort of stuck living this.
Speaker:Evan: I think he probably has the self-awareness and recognition that some of the
Speaker:Evan: things he's doing are probably really fucked up. But he doesn't really.
Speaker:Evan: He's convinced himself that it's okay for, like, the greater good,
Speaker:Evan: you know, in quotes or whatever. So you feel bad for him.
Speaker:red: You do, and then you don't. Like, when he made Miss Huang destroy the toy,
Speaker:red: like, that just felt like he was in a bad mood, so he wanted to abuse a child.
Speaker:red: And I hated that.
Speaker:Evan: Well, it says in the handbook, I think, that you have to, like,
Speaker:Evan: make a material sacrifice.
Speaker:red: Oh, fuck. So it's not even him again. It's just his general aura is always, like, punishment.
Speaker:red: And I just, that's where I felt, like, fall short in my empathy for him. Sorry, go ahead.
Speaker:Evan: No, but that's like what, that's what Lumen's entire, you know,
Speaker:Evan: severance, you know, handbook really seems to push on.
Speaker:Evan: It's, you know, punishment to correct behavior that they need for themselves.
Speaker:Evan: And in most jobs, you know, the punishment isn't quite the same as,
Speaker:Evan: you know, this is like magnified to an extreme, you know, going into a room
Speaker:Evan: and having to repeat mantras into like a,
Speaker:Evan: you know, this crazy ass shit. Like, that's not what they're doing at a real job.
Speaker:Evan: You know, they might dock your pay or, like, you know, get your overtime.
Speaker:red: You may just, like, you know, become homeless, lose your health insurance, you know.
Speaker:red: Like, I don't think it's too extreme, quite honestly. Like, I know it's,
Speaker:red: like, in a different reality of what happens.
Speaker:red: But, like, if you mess up enough at work, like, that could literally be the
Speaker:red: difference between you having a home again or not. Like, that's kind of fucking crazy, right?
Speaker:smirk: Yeah, very small carrot and very large stick, basically.
Speaker:smirk: Because the carrot is survival. and or in their case like a weird sex party
Speaker:smirk: thing if they're lucky and then,
Speaker:smirk: The stick is, you don't fucking exist anymore.
Speaker:Evan: So the end of the last of episode nine is, you know, Devin pretending to be
Speaker:Evan: pregnant to get into smuggling.
Speaker:Evan: Mark S to, or not Mark S, Mark to the birthing center, which is also super weird.
Speaker:Evan: And we get maybe one of the most bizarre, I don't know, 10 minutes of this show, I think,
Speaker:Evan: ever, where we have Mark S talking to his Audi through a video camera where
Speaker:Evan: he like goes in and out of like the deck at the birthing center.
Speaker:Evan: And it's just, you know, it's funny how at the beginning they're like watching
Speaker:Evan: the entire clips or like they're longer and then they just come,
Speaker:Evan: like they slowly get shorter and shorter.
Speaker:Evan: And, you know, Mark S basically tells him to go to also eat shit.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah. And that team must have been hard to fill also have to say.
Speaker:smirk: Yeah it was really good i i was super excited to see them actually get a chance
Speaker:smirk: to like talk to each other you know me.
Speaker:red: Too i didn't for like a split second i didn't think it was gonna go as bad as
Speaker:red: it did but it pretty quickly like delved into just straight chaos which i'm
Speaker:red: not shocked because it's mark so it's both iterations of him which are both unruly and upsetting.
Speaker:smirk: It's just i feel like neither of them are really fully grasping the reality
Speaker:smirk: of the situation not at all but it's it's more understandable for mark s who
Speaker:smirk: is again functioning like a brand new human being it's like a teenager yeah like of course,
Speaker:smirk: he is gonna be a little i don't know maybe come across as like petulant or something but,
Speaker:smirk: one of the first things he is what happens to us and they just the fact that
Speaker:smirk: they don't really have a solid answer for him besides reintegration which like
Speaker:smirk: let's be real it's kind of like he's.
Speaker:smirk: Being resorbed into this other person like he has every right to be very skeptical
Speaker:smirk: of that procedure and what it means for him as a human being and you know a
Speaker:smirk: person in his own in his own right like,
Speaker:smirk: i think this episode and that
Speaker:smirk: conversation really shows that like
Speaker:smirk: even everything mark is doing he wasn't really
Speaker:smirk: on board with the he wasn't
Speaker:smirk: really interested in a lot of this in the reintegration or
Speaker:smirk: anything until he found
Speaker:smirk: out that his wife was alive and the way he misrepresents his
Speaker:smirk: motivations for reintegrating to mark
Speaker:smirk: s like even though they've never met you're still
Speaker:smirk: very much talking to yourself and i feel like his bullshit detector was going
Speaker:smirk: off because like there's no fucking way you're doing this for me
Speaker:smirk: because of how i've been treated correct so like
Speaker:smirk: the innies spend like hours and days like wondering about their
Speaker:smirk: outies and what their lives are like what they do and who
Speaker:smirk: or what they love and like mark s in this
Speaker:smirk: conversation i think is realizing mark doesn't really do
Speaker:smirk: that so much like he's just doesn't really consider him as a person so yeah
Speaker:smirk: he's got every right to be pissed and yes like big picture what the hell are
Speaker:smirk: you gonna do what's your end game like you're being a little bit like intense and and not fully like.
Speaker:smirk: As we see later, like, what is the plan? You know, like, what you want to happen
Speaker:smirk: can't possibly, but I get where he's coming from.
Speaker:smirk: And yeah, that whole thing really made me hate Mark a lot.
Speaker:red: I hate his Audi a lot more than I hate his any, because of how he misrepresents
Speaker:red: what's going on. Like, I agree wholeheartedly with that.
Speaker:red: I also think that the moment that he called Heli, Helene, I was like,
Speaker:red: what the fuck are you even doing?
Speaker:red: Now you're just fighting with a version of yourself that's already like high
Speaker:red: emotion feels like you're asking him to sacrifice himself for you and he doesn't
Speaker:red: really even know you so like i don't know the way that he went about it was too,
Speaker:red: the word intense definitely like a correct observation
Speaker:red: like way too intense way too much and i also
Speaker:red: one thing i really hated about both versions of them is there's never
Speaker:red: like a why like his any isn't like why
Speaker:red: is this happening and why the fuck did his audi not mention pd
Speaker:red: to his any like that wouldn't be important to his any considering
Speaker:red: that was his any's best fucking friend like his audi was so bad at doing what
Speaker:red: could have been done because he was also being incredibly fucking selfish which
Speaker:red: is the issue with mark is like i think you see it reflected so well when he's
Speaker:red: having to argue with himself that both versions of himself tend to be like very selfish.
Speaker:Evan: I mean, I agree with all that, but to be the stupid devil's advocate,
Speaker:Evan: Mark's initial decision to do what he did to become severed came out of losing
Speaker:Evan: his wife and being in pain and thinking that this is going to be his way out of this,
Speaker:Evan: or who knows what they convinced him this would be like, or what their plan was,
Speaker:Evan: how long before they've decided what they were going to do to build this,
Speaker:Evan: you know, Cold Harbor or whatever.
Speaker:Evan: Can you then not blame him because he's in, I mean, I guess it's now been a couple of years. So he's,
Speaker:Evan: Maybe you can't just use grief as a crutch, but he's messed up from all of this.
Speaker:Evan: That doesn't take away, though, I think, from the fact that he is a selfish dick.
Speaker:red: I don't think he was always selfish. I think that when we see him with Gemma,
Speaker:red: he's clearly capable of being in a loving, happy adult relationship,
Speaker:red: which requires selflessness.
Speaker:red: I think Gemma's death, yes, makes him have all of these piss-poor attributes,
Speaker:red: but I just don't feel that bad for him. Um, like maybe it's cruel of me to be so apathetic.
Speaker:red: And if these were real people, I'd probably have a lot more of a nuanced take about it.
Speaker:red: But like, considering it's a TV show, I want my, I want my brain to go burr
Speaker:red: after two seasons of brain not going burr because brain sad because show sad.
Speaker:red: so like just one good thing please
Speaker:red: and we couldn't even like mark is just he's
Speaker:red: so insufferable and there's just
Speaker:red: maybe maybe i need to let me
Speaker:red: not say that i don't want to jinx myself but maybe i'll never understand
Speaker:red: it because i haven't lost a spouse maybe there are people that watch the
Speaker:red: show that have felt that grief they're like no i completely get
Speaker:red: it because while i was watching it i kind of
Speaker:red: sided with his outie more and that i was like panicking on
Speaker:red: his behalf like he wants his wife back so badly why
Speaker:red: can't we just let this fucking happen even when
Speaker:red: i was watching the camcorder stuff i was like i just know this is not going
Speaker:red: to end how i expected it to end so i don't know i get what you're saying evan
Speaker:red: like you're not even playing devil's advocate like the whole point of the end
Speaker:red: of the episode 10 is to humanize the any so and naturally we should also humanize
Speaker:red: the outie that the any was born from like.
Speaker:smirk: Like none of this is fair like they've been there in impossible situations in,
Speaker:smirk: Right. I think you said in the last one that grief is disabling and it's also
Speaker:smirk: a very intense pain to lose somebody like that.
Speaker:smirk: Like I can't even I can't imagine like and pain also makes people act like assholes.
Speaker:smirk: It really it brings out your worst attributes and you lash out and you do things
Speaker:smirk: that just don't make any sense.
Speaker:smirk: And I think that all of that pain is a lot of what's driving Mark to act the
Speaker:smirk: way he does. So, yeah, I do think he's a dick and I hate him a little bit more after this episode.
Speaker:smirk: But also, yeah, sure. Like there's I can see, like understand why to an extent.
Speaker:red: I can understand, especially because it's not normal grief either.
Speaker:red: Like he grieved. He's still grieving and poorly, mind you. Like he should absolutely go to therapy.
Speaker:red: Right. But like grieving piss poorly years later, not doing well.
Speaker:red: And then all of this was for fucking nothing because his wife is literally just trapped in a basement.
Speaker:red: so like that would actually i
Speaker:red: think i would lose my mind like really just lock
Speaker:red: me up because i can't do this i can't so i
Speaker:red: get it i do um and maybe i feel
Speaker:red: like i do this a lot on this podcast with this show specifically is i'll
Speaker:red: listen back and one minute i'll be like i fucking hate that guy and
Speaker:red: then someone will be like yeah but he's a guy and i'm like yeah you know you're
Speaker:red: right he is just a guy like i can't i don't know if they're it's such a testament
Speaker:red: to the writing of the characters because they are so hard to like hate they're
Speaker:red: just so full people and so it's there it's just you have to have a nuanced take.
Speaker:Evan: This is like unrelated to mark but just because i want to
Speaker:Evan: because we were talking about jame in the previous uh in the previous uh you
Speaker:Evan: know episode nine is that when he goes down into the uh downstairs and sees
Speaker:Evan: heli he like he likes the severed heli the,
Speaker:Evan: severed version of his daughter like referring to
Speaker:Evan: her as like having cure in her and like that's a
Speaker:Evan: pretty fucked up thing like clearly he does not like
Speaker:Evan: he also basically means he doesn't love his children he doesn't
Speaker:Evan: love anybody i mean he probably just loves himself and and maybe
Speaker:Evan: yeah and heli like the person he's
Speaker:Evan: like literally created and then almost feels like this
Speaker:Evan: idea that he's goes back to the other one
Speaker:Evan: of you know like what was his end goal like is it this religious thing is
Speaker:Evan: it just to make money and in some weird way it's
Speaker:Evan: like he created like a different version of his daughter that
Speaker:Evan: he actually likes more where he's engineered a
Speaker:Evan: human that has emotions and characteristics that's different so like he could
Speaker:Evan: create in theory an army of people that are more cure in them because you can
Speaker:Evan: mold them how you want because they're basically like children and so it's it's
Speaker:Evan: i don't know i don't know what i'm getting at or going with but i'm just that.
Speaker:smirk: Could be the ultimate idea though like that that could very much be the thing.
Speaker:Evan: Oh to like basically create like a to.
Speaker:smirk: Create people that are more in line with what they think people should be you
Speaker:smirk: know to get people severing and eventually just have the ones that are out and
Speaker:smirk: about in the world be the sort of people who are free from the burden of those
Speaker:smirk: pesky tempers or whatever the fuck and.
Speaker:Evan: This so basically manipulate the people who are now the any is like really the
Speaker:Evan: the real world person my you know so,
Speaker:Evan: propaganda or right i
Speaker:Evan: mean it's it's almost like i know this is going to sound stupid
Speaker:Evan: like but what would be the point wouldn't it be better to
Speaker:Evan: control your workers but then i guess if you're in the real world like irv like
Speaker:Evan: he his audi was you know trying to figure things out like they don't want people
Speaker:Evan: to gain class conscious on the outside right it's almost.
Speaker:smirk: Like they need two innies or 25 yeah.
Speaker:Evan: Where your your audi is like controlled into believing that the world is great
Speaker:Evan: and this company lumen is great and then the any that does evil work for an
Speaker:Evan: evil corporation whether it's walmart lumen apple tv you know whatever.
Speaker:smirk: Okay so what about this so what about you know how people are disconnected from
Speaker:smirk: the um from the fruits of their labor and also like the steps of like let's
Speaker:smirk: say like manufacturing or something are split up into different,
Speaker:smirk: sections so that like people aren't really fully involved with the entire start to finish process,
Speaker:smirk: in something like manufacturing like you're the one who pushes the button you're
Speaker:smirk: the one who like picks up the thing you're the one who screws the lid on and
Speaker:smirk: somebody else is the one who like it's all very segmented so you're not seeing
Speaker:smirk: the whole and you're not like fully attached to it,
Speaker:smirk: so if this makes sense to kind of apply that to like the human experience of somebody who's severed.
Speaker:smirk: Your detachment from like these different segments of your lives
Speaker:smirk: let's take something like like let's say somebody was like severed into
Speaker:smirk: like multiple situations like you have the you
Speaker:smirk: that has to do the shit that like like the you that
Speaker:smirk: goes to the dmv the you that goes to the dentist the one that has to
Speaker:smirk: take apart the which by the way we'll talk
Speaker:smirk: about how fucking cruel and crazy that was with the crib but
Speaker:smirk: the you that does all the things that frustrate you
Speaker:smirk: and that you know eventually build up into this thing like something
Speaker:smirk: is not right here like there's all these like the you that has to
Speaker:smirk: go to work and get and get shafted basically
Speaker:smirk: and out of like everything that you actually deserve you separate
Speaker:smirk: that into a bunch of different people who who don't really have any power and
Speaker:smirk: then the one that does is not aware of all this like these tiny like injustices
Speaker:smirk: and frustrations and they're very just like chill and plastic like they don't
Speaker:smirk: have any connection to the stuff that frustrates them and might motivate them
Speaker:smirk: to like i don't know want to change the way things work.
Speaker:Evan: Nope, that's it.
Speaker:smirk: Does that make sense?
Speaker:Evan: No, that's it.
Speaker:smirk: Okay.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah. No, that, that makes, yeah. I mean, that kind of, I don't know how that
Speaker:Evan: then kills Gemma with like the completion, but it does seem like that's what
Speaker:Evan: they're trying to create is be able to segment you.
Speaker:Evan: Imagine if like you could, you know, as a, you're Audi, you're like,
Speaker:Evan: I don't want to have to go to Ikea and like shop for shit or whatever, like build the crib,
Speaker:Evan: whatever, like building Ikea furniture can be frustrating like what if you just
Speaker:Evan: like didn't have to remember that that existed but then by not remembering you
Speaker:Evan: don't realize that there's these you know that ikea has bad labor i don't know
Speaker:Evan: like you can't you know you're like separated from these things no i we could
Speaker:Evan: just cut it here if we're done,
Speaker:Evan: No, I think that's right. I don't know that that's necessarily what they're
Speaker:Evan: doing, but it makes perfect sense.
Speaker:smirk: But it makes sense. As long as it makes sense. As long as you get what I'm... Yeah.
Speaker:red: That's all that matters.
Speaker:smirk: Yeah. As long as it makes sense to somebody. Oh, did you guys get a good look at the painting?
Speaker:red: Yes. I sobbed. I literally paused it and sobbed because what the fuck?
Speaker:Evan: That whole ass episode was like the band playing Milchik in the...
Speaker:red: Oh, the band's cunt.
Speaker:Evan: Though yeah like the milchek in the bathroom like smashing his way out and then
Speaker:Evan: you also have the like goat lady again like there were some like lots of just
Speaker:Evan: crazy shit all lauren i think is her name right no emily emily brian.
Speaker:smirk: Of tarth that one.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah her name was emile.
Speaker:smirk: The goat's name.
Speaker:red: I thought that goat's name was like a meal.
Speaker:Evan: Oh you're right that is that sorry sorry i to the to the actress and I apologize
Speaker:Evan: that I referred to you as a goat.
Speaker:smirk: So the goat, okay, so is the goat fully just a symbolic gesture?
Speaker:smirk: What does the goat have to do with it?
Speaker:Evan: That feels super religious, right?
Speaker:smirk: It does. It feels very culty and weird.
Speaker:Evan: Abraham bringing his son to, you know. But this clearly, she's like sacrificed a lot of goats.
Speaker:red: So many, because she's like lost her mind. She's like, this can't be,
Speaker:red: I can't keep fucking doing this shit, bro. Just raising goats to go kill him.
Speaker:smirk: She's like, how long is this going to go on? As long as it needs to.
Speaker:smirk: Fuck you. Hand her a bolt gun and then say that to her, which,
Speaker:smirk: by the way, is like one of the most horrifying implements ever.
Speaker:Evan: Bolt guns i love i mean you kind of love that uh the uh guy uh what's his name
Speaker:Evan: um drummond drummond gets bolt gun you know bolt gun sort of accidentally by
Speaker:Evan: mark because he doesn't realize he's holding it in his hand it's.
Speaker:smirk: So crazy the way that happens it's just
Speaker:smirk: his the look on his face like the absolute pure horror like what
Speaker:smirk: the fuck did i just do he wakes up accidentally murdering
Speaker:smirk: the guy which totally had the guy had it coming and it
Speaker:smirk: worked out fine but like yeah that that made me laugh a little bit which is
Speaker:smirk: kind of morbid also when milchick hands dylan the paper it's like i will leave
Speaker:smirk: you to read it in solitude because this may i don't know provoke an emotion
Speaker:smirk: and then he just fucking books it out of there i i had a pause that i was laughing
Speaker:smirk: so fucking hard that had me weak too.
Speaker:red: I was like what the fuck very milchick coded.
Speaker:smirk: Yeah that was so funny and he was getting into the uh the choreography and merriment
Speaker:smirk: too he was very excited to be the director he.
Speaker:red: Ate that up y'all he did so.
Speaker:smirk: Good like really.
Speaker:red: He did so good.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah think about how much time it would have required to rehearse that not like
Speaker:Evan: for the show but like in the world of the show i just imagine milchik like making
Speaker:Evan: these people just rehearse this for you know days months are.
Speaker:smirk: They severed they're.
Speaker:red: Severed right they allude that they're severed and their whole job is just being
Speaker:red: band performers marching band how.
Speaker:smirk: Often does that come up really.
Speaker:Evan: I was gonna say how often do you need a fucking band to like I don't know every
Speaker:Evan: time they kill a goat they like do a little performance.
Speaker:red: Play a little ditty oh my god.
Speaker:Evan: Well there's like there's like I mean like we there's lots of shit that happens
Speaker:Evan: in this last episode I mean it's,
Speaker:Evan: there's just i'm looking at like the list and like some of the screenshots
Speaker:Evan: that they have on the wiki of just like you know all like
Speaker:Evan: when you talk about the conversation they have on the camera and then they
Speaker:Evan: obviously go back he goes back to try and you know save his
Speaker:Evan: wife and then we have the murder of drummond and you yeah you want to talk about
Speaker:Evan: the uh making her take apart the crib like as the final test to not remembering
Speaker:Evan: that she's like had however many miscarriages Horribly cruel and.
Speaker:smirk: Awful yeah and i'd like how they say she doesn't feel anything she's not but
Speaker:smirk: she looks upset like i don't like i don't look.
Speaker:red: Unwell as fuck she doesn't.
Speaker:smirk: Look like a.
Speaker:red: Void list she looks devastated.
Speaker:smirk: Yeah she's confused and scared and also she's definitely upset like this is
Speaker:smirk: not a chill experience for her but these are people who also very.
Speaker:red: Typical of men being like she looks.
Speaker:smirk: Fine so it's fine to me and she's like literally.
Speaker:red: Looks like she's about to throw up.
Speaker:smirk: Yeah they.
Speaker:Evan: Couldn't even like do her the curse of giving her like an electric drill to
Speaker:Evan: take that thing apart i mean you're put like there's a lot of fucking screws in that thing.
Speaker:smirk: Yeah like putting together furniture i don't mind it so much because at least
Speaker:smirk: you get something when you're done with it taking apart furniture that fucking
Speaker:smirk: sucks that's terrible what a terrible chore just spit it with a hammer put it
Speaker:smirk: on crazy jesus christ yeah having to put it on the curb with a free sign and
Speaker:smirk: it'll be gone in like two seconds.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah. Oh man. Like the, I'm trying to think of some other like ridiculous things
Speaker:Evan: that happens. I mean, you also just have what's crazy.
Speaker:Evan: So like going back a couple episodes with like the directions to get to the
Speaker:Evan: elevator too is also just like Mark like frantically looking at his directions.
Speaker:Evan: Like it's a kind of a miracle he got there.
Speaker:smirk: I would be so lost. Every hallway looks exactly the same. It's just.
Speaker:red: I would just give up. I'd be like, Like, I'm sorry. I couldn't,
Speaker:red: I couldn't, Gemma. I couldn't do it for you.
Speaker:smirk: Sorry about your wife. The hallways were confusing.
Speaker:Evan: I also never mentioned this in other episodes, but I also can't help but think
Speaker:Evan: of the little symbol over the elevator as also like the little symbol that's
Speaker:Evan: used like in the Palestinian...
Speaker:Evan: You know, the little red triangle.
Speaker:red: Yeah, the resistance triangle.
Speaker:Evan: And in this case, I think it's orange, right? But it obviously has no relation,
Speaker:Evan: but I just, when it happened this time, because it's like kind of fucked up
Speaker:Evan: and Drummond dies in the elevator too.
Speaker:Evan: Not in an act of resistance, I mind you.
Speaker:smirk: Him using the tie to open the biometric lock, that was pretty great.
Speaker:Evan: Genius.
Speaker:smirk: Yeah, that was wicked smart. Yeah, I like that a lot.
Speaker:smirk: um but yeah he just he comes it's still so funny he just comes to it's just
Speaker:smirk: covered in fucking blood this episode was a lot more violent than i would have
Speaker:smirk: uh i assume there would be some violence i didn't expect full-on beat down and um i really loved when.
Speaker:red: Mark was like finally there he followed the instructions and i don't know what
Speaker:red: the bitch's name he's talking to but he she calls him a fucko,
Speaker:red: i really loved the use of like comedic relief in this last episode it was very
Speaker:red: sparse but it was like perfect in the places that they added it.
Speaker:smirk: Well sarah bernhardt she's uh yeah she's been a comedian for forever and she
Speaker:smirk: was like yeah it's like she's always i always like the way she says fuck i just
Speaker:smirk: i don't know her voice is is fun to me so yeah i like that too oh like i was
Speaker:smirk: waiting for her to use she's.
Speaker:Evan: Like the she's not like a nurse.
Speaker:red: Kind of is and they're like like back and forth just like kind of wailing at each other like.
Speaker:smirk: And he's pointing the gun at the gun at her but it's already not.
Speaker:red: Going to hurt her and she's freaking the fuck out oh i love that it was great.
Speaker:smirk: Yeah yeah it's really.
Speaker:Evan: Good well i thought they're like the more more disturbing than getting like
Speaker:Evan: the him like drumming lying there with the you know,
Speaker:Evan: blood pouring out of his neck is when they get into the elevator and they have
Speaker:Evan: to like push him out of the way to then go up. That actually had me laughing a little bit.
Speaker:Evan: But also it's then really creepy. They're in the elevator.
Speaker:Evan: Mark's like just soaked in blood and Gemma's, you know, is, you know, so,
Speaker:Evan: elated that she's like leaving this place and then like you just absolutely
Speaker:Evan: get kicked in the face when you've like the final scene of her, you know.
Speaker:Evan: I mean, obviously you probably are listening to this if you haven't.
Speaker:Evan: seen this spoiler alerts if you've gotten this far but it's just it's so it's
Speaker:Evan: almost predictable but it doesn't make it any less gut-wrenching.
Speaker:red: It was so predictable i was like expecting it but i
Speaker:red: was still like it's not gonna happen now like
Speaker:red: they would never fuck us over so badly but
Speaker:red: then there has to be a third season what is a third season if they're not stuck
Speaker:red: there the third season pretty much has to be at this point like jimma and devin
Speaker:red: spend the rest of their life trying to get them out of that lumen floor i'd
Speaker:red: assume so like predictable nonetheless the most,
Speaker:red: devastating heartbreaking ending of a season of a tv show i've seen in a long time yeah.
Speaker:smirk: It's very much giving like the graduate like they're like on the bus or running
Speaker:smirk: down the hallway and like.
Speaker:red: Where the fuck are.
Speaker:smirk: You gonna go like and the song that was playing i forgot to um.
Speaker:Evan: Write down what it was it was um oh.
Speaker:red: But.
Speaker:smirk: Yeah it was it was very well shot and it was very well done but.
Speaker:red: Edited beautifully all of it was
Speaker:red: perfect surely it was just really fucking frustrating to bear witness to.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah and they and i think the last thing too is both
Speaker:Evan: heli are and gemma's last word on
Speaker:Evan: the show was both mark like she's pounding
Speaker:Evan: on the door like and she's mark and then he turns around and
Speaker:Evan: sees hellie coming down and she says you know mark and
Speaker:Evan: he's you know it's yeah brutal and
Speaker:Evan: i mean you almost have the idea like is mark gonna s be trapped in you know
Speaker:Evan: there or how can he then because if he's let go as his audi won't he then just
Speaker:Evan: connect with gemma and then at this point.
Speaker:smirk: He's killed a guy, right? He's fully murdered a guy.
Speaker:Evan: It's like can you be trying to afford law for doing it as an any.
Speaker:red: That's the thing right like.
Speaker:smirk: I don't think.
Speaker:red: They in this society does the government like even really because,
Speaker:red: comparing it to like today if there was a corporation doing this I think the
Speaker:red: US government would just like turn a blind eye like everybody would be in their
Speaker:red: signal chats apparently like did you see this crazy fucking shit but like they
Speaker:red: wouldn't regulate it to any capacity like.
Speaker:smirk: No because businesses should be able to do what they want to do because.
Speaker:red: They're people. So in that, no, I don't think that there's like any law that's
Speaker:red: like any scam murder because why would they want to get involved with like regulating a corporation?
Speaker:Evan: Well, so what I cut you off though, like you're saying is like he's now trapped,
Speaker:Evan: right? Because why would they let him, he's killed someone. Why would they let him go?
Speaker:smirk: Yeah, he can't go anywhere. Like I think if anything does come of it,
Speaker:smirk: which obviously it's, there's going to be some kind of consequence.
Speaker:smirk: If he doesn't, somehow reintegrate
Speaker:smirk: while they're like on the run or something because i'm not really
Speaker:smirk: clear on that process whether he needs like constant intervention and
Speaker:smirk: like ongoing care from that doctor that his sister kind of
Speaker:smirk: like shoot away burn yeah like burn that bridge um is he gonna continue if he
Speaker:smirk: continues to kind of reintegrate while he's while they're down there like on
Speaker:smirk: the run from the people in the same exact fucking building then i don't know
Speaker:smirk: but if anything happens it's gonna be good because Lumen disappears and it's not going to be.
Speaker:smirk: I don't think the law will have anything to do with it.
Speaker:red: They're just going to be stuck on that severed floor, though.
Speaker:red: It's like, where are they going? They're just going to live on the severed floor?
Speaker:Evan: I mean, the goat lady seems to live there, right?
Speaker:red: Well, you're right. Some of them don't leave, it seems.
Speaker:smirk: Yeah, maybe they can hide out in the goat place.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah, I mean, they're going to kill her, presumably. There could be an uprising.
Speaker:red: Maybe, of the ones that are stuck there currently.
Speaker:Evan: Well, all of the people who are the musicians kind of slightly rebel, right?
Speaker:Evan: I mean, in a way, they're kind of blocking... Well, rebel is probably a too strong of a word.
Speaker:smirk: Okay, so there's more than one severed floor on it, obviously,
Speaker:smirk: because we know that Gemma is on one of the other ones.
Speaker:smirk: But I feel like, okay, so the band is probably on the same one.
Speaker:smirk: How do they never hear them practice?
Speaker:smirk: I just don't understand. Maybe they're in a soundproof room or something.
Speaker:red: For sure, soundproof.
Speaker:smirk: Yeah, but they can get to other departments, but they've only been to two others.
Speaker:Evan: Well, if they have another floor below where they're working in MDR,
Speaker:Evan: they could have more floors, presumably, like a deeper floor.
Speaker:smirk: I'm just trying to get a sense of how many people.
Speaker:Evan: Oh, God, I don't know. Like, they always made it seem, in my mind,
Speaker:Evan: that there was not that many severed people.
Speaker:Evan: But now it's almost like there's lots of them, and maybe it's...
Speaker:red: It's like there's a lot.
Speaker:Evan: The more that they've been testing and doing all these different things,
Speaker:Evan: they're now able to use it more or something? I don't know.
Speaker:Evan: Why would you sign up as a musician to do that?
Speaker:smirk: Maybe they always wanted to learn an instrument, but they didn't want to practice.
Speaker:red: Yeah, maybe it goes back to the children's stuff. They're like,
Speaker:red: get them as kids. It's like, you want to come to flute lessons,
Speaker:red: kid? Congratulations. Now there's a chip in your brain.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah. It's all messed up. I mean, season three.
Speaker:red: It's very perplexing. I feel like I was left with a lot to say.
Speaker:red: And then the more I thought about it, the more I was like, damn,
Speaker:red: I just kind of don't even know anymore.
Speaker:Evan: I can't even like predict season three because I don't feel like I even was
Speaker:Evan: able to predict what was going to happen in season two.
Speaker:Evan: I mean, it seems like kind of reverse though. Like Gemma is going to be like
Speaker:Evan: searching to, you know, get Mark out.
Speaker:red: That's what i think is going to happen i think my
Speaker:red: only strong prediction of season three is that we
Speaker:red: didn't see irving doing some kind of possible resistance for
Speaker:red: no reason i think that there is an existing resistance of
Speaker:red: severance and lumen and i think that jimma and
Speaker:red: devon to some extent are going to get sucked up into resisting
Speaker:red: this um maybe even some kind of like
Speaker:red: pr thing where they're going on interviews and shit to like talk about the travesties
Speaker:red: of lumen i don't know it's just like now that jimma is free there's no reality
Speaker:red: where they can like kind of just pretend this never happened because she could
Speaker:red: just like go on oprah and be like i was trapped in the basement of a corporation help like they have to.
Speaker:Evan: Get her back right.
Speaker:red: They do have to get her back but literally like all she has to do now is run
Speaker:red: like she just has to turn around and go yeah because devin is outside waiting for her yeah so.
Speaker:smirk: I'm interested to see how it goes with rickin,
Speaker:smirk: when jemma's back and after the shock is worn off and she's like chill that a little bit,
Speaker:smirk: she's gonna find out that he's like gonna start working with loom i think she's
Speaker:smirk: gonna tear into him a little bit and maybe he'll have some introspection finally
Speaker:smirk: about how shitty he's being rewriting his book for them.
Speaker:red: That's actually funny i was going to mention the only other kind of just theory
Speaker:red: i guess i have for season three is that devon and rickon are possibly going
Speaker:red: to get divorced like she's going to go back and like fuck you get the fuck out
Speaker:red: of my house like you're you're sick you're just sick.
Speaker:smirk: So yeah he sucks.
Speaker:Evan: Well, in a year or so, we will, you know, we will.
Speaker:red: We'll know.
Speaker:Evan: We'll know. But I'm sure they're going to do some crazy shit because it seems like.
Speaker:smirk: Maybe we'll get more animatronic here. It was like Disney World,
Speaker:smirk: like that Hall of Presidents.
Speaker:smirk: That was creepy. I'm excited to see if they have another one for season three.
Speaker:smirk: If it'll also roast people.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah. Like, seemed like the first season was lots of these like little bits
Speaker:Evan: about Kier and how weird it was. And in season two, you actually got to hear
Speaker:Evan: it from them themselves, you know, like the Jame.
Speaker:Evan: And then I want to know more about this crazy family.
Speaker:red: I don't. I really don't. Like, what we have seen so far is too much. It's way too much.
Speaker:red: Helena's only eating like one egg a day. And for whatever reason,
Speaker:red: Jame wants her to eat it fucking raw.
Speaker:red: Like, that just stressed me the fuck out. I feel bad for Heli.
Speaker:red: I immediately made me think, is her any not starving?
Speaker:red: Because her Audi is. Yeah.
Speaker:smirk: She's swimming a lot. She's swimming like laps on laps on. She has to be fucking starving.
Speaker:red: It's like some serious eating disorder. And I think it's like a part of the cult, right?
Speaker:red: Like they're restricting the foods you eat and then they're making you work
Speaker:red: out an insane amount. You're like delirious.
Speaker:red: You'll accept anything. You'll do anything. You're hungry and you're fucking tired.
Speaker:Evan: Aren't yeah i mean she's conditioned in a way that's very much seems not good
Speaker:Evan: for her mental health physical health yeah.
Speaker:smirk: I'm excited to see what happens i don't know.
Speaker:Evan: Well we'll see in about in a year or so we'll return for season three jesus
Speaker:Evan: christ my brain my brain is has been severed from this episode as i've joked
Speaker:Evan: many times but i don't know any last last parting words on.
Speaker:smirk: I don't think so.
Speaker:Evan: I know there's like other like things that happen and little bits here and there
Speaker:Evan: but i mean i feel like we hit all the i.
Speaker:red: Would say while dylan said fuck you mr milchick i would just end with fuck you
Speaker:red: mark yeah seriously eat fucking shit mark.
Speaker:Evan: There are a lot of unredeemable people in this show just the whole thing like.
Speaker:red: All of them are irredeemable.
Speaker:Evan: It's for irving Maybe.
Speaker:red: Girl Irving is like all we've got going for us.
Speaker:Evan: He's on a train to nowhere.
Speaker:red: Yeah, who knows if we even see him again. But I think I mentioned that in one
Speaker:red: of the podcast episodes that like you have to be either incredibly emotionally
Speaker:red: stunted or just a piece of shit to be willing to suffer.
Speaker:red: And maybe it's just like a little bit of both.
Speaker:red: Like you didn't always have to be a piece of shit, but something along the way
Speaker:red: just like really robbed you of your soul. Like, I just don't think you are,
Speaker:red: like, the best person in the world if you're willing to sever anyway.
Speaker:red: So, I think that's why they're kind of all unlikable and all iterations of themselves.
Speaker:smirk: Yeah, I think...
Speaker:smirk: products of the shitty environment but also they're actively choosing to you
Speaker:smirk: know be part of what makes that shitty by like pioneering this new way to exploit people.
Speaker:red: It's like the general crux of people in the west right like we are all exploited
Speaker:red: under capitalism but like,
Speaker:red: compared to the west of the world we are like complicit in a way that a lot
Speaker:red: of other nations and their people don't even get an opportunity to be complicit really.
Speaker:smirk: Says a lot about society.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah i mean well there's probably too
Speaker:Evan: much to go into here but you could it'd be
Speaker:Evan: interesting to almost consider the characters as
Speaker:Evan: stand-ins for different you know people and
Speaker:Evan: groups within like our capitalist structure could
Speaker:Evan: probably spend a whole episode on that but we'll save you all for for now on
Speaker:Evan: that but uh red it's work pleasure to uh to discuss our trilogy of episodes
Speaker:Evan: and maybe we'll do something that isn't severed in the future so you can give
Speaker:Evan: your brains a severance break yeah.
Speaker:smirk: We'll do like a michael bay joint or something something really.
Speaker:red: Oh a marvel transformers 63 please the wrath.
Speaker:Evan: Of con or something.
Speaker:red: Or one of those fucking car movies they're like still they're like ai-ing the
Speaker:red: dead guy so they can make those car movies again fast and furious oh my.
Speaker:smirk: God are they really.
Speaker:red: I don't know i maybe made that up it just feels like something they're definitely gonna do soon oh.
Speaker:Evan: No well they are making the 11th one i think it's like a sequel to the 10th one but like.
Speaker:red: They are actually making a please don't ever invite me for that garbage i sincerely
Speaker:red: like i can't i'd show up absolutely smashed so yeah.
Speaker:Evan: It's I think it's called Fast 11.
Speaker:red: Don't piss me off, Evan. Do not piss me off because.
Speaker:Evan: And to my listeners, I actually am planning an episode on the very first movie
Speaker:Evan: with another podcast that's got cars and comrades who talk about cars and our comrades.
Speaker:Evan: But the first one is actually like a, like the first one is like a decent movie.
Speaker:Evan: Like after like the third one, they're like, I don't know anymore.
Speaker:Evan: i haven't seen past watching them so i have no frame of reference but yeah we
Speaker:Evan: won't we won't do we'll do something more fun than uh.
Speaker:red: Something a little less daunting, yeah, than the Fast and Furious,
Speaker:red: the Transformers, any of it.
Speaker:Evan: You know what movie I just watched today on the airplane that would be an interesting
Speaker:Evan: one is 10 Things I Hate About You?
Speaker:red: I've never watched that movie, but I would absolutely watch it for this.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah, Adriel Stiles, Heath Ledger, you know, R.I.P. And Joseph Gordon-Levitt.
Speaker:Evan: Like, it doesn't fully hold up, which is interesting.
Speaker:Evan: well i guess it's not surprising if you if you've seen it before it's uh.
Speaker:red: I've seen gifs of it enough to know that it doesn't probably hold up that well
Speaker:red: it was very popular on tumblr and like the 2016 to 2012 era yeah.
Speaker:Evan: I feel like there's a bunch of memes that were from i can't think of when any
Speaker:Evan: of them were at the moment maybe it's not.
Speaker:red: She's like listing the things doesn't she's like she's like in the thing i hate
Speaker:red: most about you or whatever i don't know for poetry for yeah Yeah.
Speaker:smirk: For a poetry unit.
Speaker:Evan: Exactly. There's also like the big scene with Heath Ledger doing like the singing,
Speaker:Evan: you know, I can't take my eyes off you, the Frankie Valli song.
Speaker:Evan: Kind of like an iconic scene. Anyway.
Speaker:smirk: Yeah.
Speaker:Evan: We'll take this discussion offline.
Speaker:red: Yeah.
Speaker:Evan: But thanks everyone for listening and we'll catch you next time.
Speaker:red: Thank you.
