Episode 192

TV BONUS: Andor - Season 2 - Episodes 4-6

In this episode of Left to the Projector, we analyze Episodes 4 through 6 of Andor Season 2 with Ward and Bill. We explore the emotional depth of Ghorman, where characters Bix and Andor confront their traumas amid revolution. Our discussion highlights the complexity of the Empire's portrayal in ISB meetings and the psychological impacts of hyper-vigilance on Cassian and Bix. We assess leadership themes and narrative manipulation within the revolutionaries, culminating in a critique of poor leadership during a heist. We conclude with excitement for upcoming episodes, emphasizing the series' profound exploration of rebellion, trauma, and social justice.

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Transcript
Speaker:

Track 1: Hello and welcome to Left to the Projector. I have your host,

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Track 1: Evan, back again with another TV discussion from the left.

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Track 1: This week on the show, we continue our series on Andor Season 2, Episodes 4 through 6.

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Track 1: And of course, I have back Ward and Bill to discuss this perfect television program.

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Track 1: Thank you for being here today.

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Track 3: Appreciate you having us.

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Track 2: Yes, this is actually perfect television, and we are not in the CIA.

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Track 1: No, and for anyone who's wondering what that means, if you didn't hear,

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Track 1: the CIA had a covert website that they used, which was a Star Wars fan page.

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Track 1: So if you ever go to a Star Wars fan page, you are probably being overlooked

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Track 1: by the Central Intelligence Agency.

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Track 1: And I'm winking right now at my contact there, so he can change things.

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Track 3: You can also disregard all bad Star Wars takes as Fed takes from now on.

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Track 2: Yeah, I 100% believe that every

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Track 2: shit talk against What's-Her-Face from the second or the third movie,

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Track 2: the new movies, Tran.

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Track 3: I thought those didn't exist.

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Track 2: Marie Tran?

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Track 1: Oh, yeah.

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Track 2: Yeah, those are all Fed takes. That was just the government pushing anti-Asian.

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Track 2: That was the government pushing Asian hate.

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Track 3: I agree with that. And also anything Empire did nothing wrong.

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Track 2: Yeah. That's objectively incorrect.

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Track 1: And so for anyone who listened, hopefully listened to, and or season two episodes one through three,

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Track 1: our conversation, we did slightly veer ever so gently into a couple of the bits

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Track 1: that happened in episode four.

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Track 1: Touched on four and five. Just a tiny bit. Just a little hair.

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Track 1: But this time we will, we did our homework.

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Track 1: We have, I have copious notes and I'm not going to disappoint you.

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Track 1: Hopefully this time my Star Wars leftist friends.

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Track 2: Oh, there's always going to be some of them because even amongst the left,

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Track 2: there are people that think the Jedi are good people or something. And you know.

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Track 3: And there's people that think lightsabers are really cool.

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Track 2: Yeah, but honestly, ISB meetings, those are cool.

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Track 3: Those are so much sick. Like, dude, no, honestly, like, if you would have told

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Track 3: me, like, as a kid, like, hey, you know what's not cool?

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Track 3: Lightsabers. You know what's really cool?

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Track 3: Five basically nameless dudes from the ISB having a meeting.

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Track 3: trust me when you're 33 watching and or season two you're gonna be so much more

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Track 3: stoked for an isb meeting than any lightsaber duel you could ever see there's.

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Track 2: Gonna be multiple episodes where old people talk in an antique shop and you're

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Track 2: gonna be fucking psyched.

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Track 3: Yeah like honestly it's so crazy to me like dude you would have told me like

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Track 3: this like years ago like this would have been like the height of star wars i'm

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Track 3: like no no no no no you're crazy now it's gold standard.

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Track 1: You never would have believed that someone would actually make this

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Track 1: like just the thought of it existing you know

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Track 1: like the as you i mean as you said like the i mean i

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Track 1: agree about the isb you know meetings are

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Track 1: all great and interesting and like give you this real glimpse into

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Track 1: what they actually be you know like when you when you hear

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Track 1: some video of some politician on 60 minutes

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Track 1: or whatever and he like says the quiet part out loud those are

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Track 1: meetings are just like the quiet part out loud the whole time and i think that's

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Track 1: what like gives you a good glimpse into like what the empire does because those

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Track 1: meetings in other star wars movies where it's darth vader talking to some you

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Track 1: know second in command like those

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Track 1: those those that sucks those are stupid that's just like the those are.

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Track 3: Funny if you really think about it because you got like a lot of military dudes

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Track 3: trying to talk about strategy and then you have this fucking monk dude over

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Track 3: here that's like, no, no, no, no, no, magic is the way.

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Track 2: Okay, so here's the thing.

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Track 3: So funny, but not great.

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Track 2: And I think now as a vocal atheist,

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Track 2: Like, I can appreciate that. But the problem with that take trips up is that

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Track 2: magic is actually real in Star Wars.

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Track 2: Like, that's the problem. Like, the real funny thing about it is that in real

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Track 2: life, the life we live in, the world we live in,

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Track 2: there are people having meetings where some guy in the background is going,

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Track 2: but what about the magic guy in the sky?

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Track 2: And in our world, we have literally no reason to believe the magic on the sky

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Track 2: exists or gives a shit about anything.

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Track 2: But in this universe, the magic is real.

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Track 2: And then he choked dude out for it.

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Track 2: Like, literally, you know, there is there is that.

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Track 2: And I hate to give Jedi any room for anything. Right.

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Track 2: But they still do exist, sadly, unfortunately, much to my dismay.

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Track 1: They do. And they mostly don't exist in this show.

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Track 2: They don't exist at all. They're never even mentioned.

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Track 2: The Jedi Order is never mentioned.

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Track 1: That's true. They do never utter the word Jedi in this series.

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Track 1: They're inconsequential. They're inconsequential to a real revolution in the

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Track 1: same way that magic is not consequential in a actual revolution.

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Track 2: Or in the way that liberals are inconsequential to a revolution because the

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Track 2: Jedi are liberals. That's what they are. They're fucking liberals.

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Track 3: Yeah. Star Wars starts to suck whenever you start to realize that there's a timeline past and or.

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Track 3: and you're like whoa wait all this all this effort sacrifice indomitable human.

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Track 1: Will this is rogue one erasure yeah.

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Track 3: This is like you left.

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Track 2: Out rogue one.

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Track 3: Oh yeah sorry i left out rogue one rogue one's incredible too so anything past

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Track 3: rogue one once you remember that it's terrible because it's like all that sacrifice

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Track 3: all that effort by all those people thrown away because some hillbilly from

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Track 3: the fucking sticks with magic fucking takes out the death star like fuck off like.

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Track 1: My one of my favorite memes is the the

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Track 1: then we'll actually talk about the first episode is the

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Track 1: uh when they like go to destroy

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Track 1: the death star based on the plans that they're trying to eventually get in rogue

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Track 1: one is that they drive straight in like their little planes for a really long

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Track 1: time but the death star is round and then i see these people being like wait

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Track 1: is the death star flat like the you know it's Like flat Death Stars or whatever or something.

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Track 2: Flat Death Star Theory.

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Track 1: So anyway, we don't have to talk about that. We're talking about Andor.

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Track 1: And for anyone who doesn't also know, you probably watch it if you're listening.

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Track 1: But these three episodes take place one year after the previous set of three episodes.

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Track 1: So each three, all four sets of three, one year apart.

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Track 1: And this episode, the first one is titled Ever Been to Gorman.

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Track 1: And we finally are introduced or not finally. We're introduced to this planet of Gorman.

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Track 1: But I think before that, what my first kind of like note about this is,

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Track 1: is that there's a lot of scenes in this first episode of just what I would call

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Track 1: like mundane day to day life of just.

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Track 1: what people who were part of the revolution in this case bix and andor have

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Track 1: to undergo and deal with like they have to live their lives with the fact that

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Track 1: they've killed people they've done they've stolen they've done all these things

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Track 1: in the name of their revolution or their uh rebellion,

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Track 1: and it's like the most interesting conversations because you never see that

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Track 1: in any other kind of movie where they bring about like there's a revolution

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Track 1: hunger games whatever you want to say there's never like these simple conversations

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Track 1: of like what they deal with and i think that that's great.

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Track 2: I i do think that i don't think hunger games deserve fits into that conversation.

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Track 1: It was just the first thing that hit my mind.

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Track 2: In general yeah it's like any kind

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Track 2: of like thing about anything ever touches on

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Track 2: this kind of stuff it's always like but the glory of it and like

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Track 2: you know it's all it glorifies the violence and it glorifies all

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Track 2: the you know the heroic shit and it

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Track 2: never you know which kind of erases the

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Track 2: point how like as people that believe

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Track 2: in like you know the change the need for change and like

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Track 2: we advocate for actually like reform isn't

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Track 2: going to work you know there will be revolution people think we'd like

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Track 2: advocate for violence and i feel like that this whole

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Track 2: thing really kind of makes it's like nobody actually wants

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Track 2: that no nobody wants that like fucking we would love it if the world were better

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Track 2: without having to do that and like they clearly struggle with it you know like

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Track 2: and it's clear that they they want that everyday life cas wants to be able to go to the park.

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Track 1: Actually hunger games is a bad example because as you said in hunger games there

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Track 1: actually is a lot of grappling with like the,

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Track 1: suffering and the things that go into it so i i would recant that as an example

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Track 1: but i think the point generally stands it absolutely.

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Track 2: Does it absolutely does my wife is currently reading the well she just finished

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Track 2: the the new hunter games book action.

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Track 1: Oh that's funny i haven't i was i meant i started the first of the two prequels

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Track 1: and i just didn't get through it at some point i'll read it.

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Track 2: I stopped reading that one.

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Track 1: I didn't like it i've heard that the second one that just came out is much better.

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Track 2: That's what that's what jackie said.

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Track 1: And like one of the things that i think one of the lines i also noted

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Track 1: when bix and andor are like having their comp like this this

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Track 1: struggle is that they're at war and

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Track 1: i think maybe it's in the next episode that i'll

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Track 1: just bring in now to speak maybe erwin beats in the first one where bix also

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Track 1: says like this has to be worth it she like we have to win and you know because

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Track 1: all the things they've done and all the pain and suffering and ptsd and all

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Track 1: the things that go with it will only be worth it if you're victorious.

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Track 1: It would just be crushing to lose.

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Track 3: I know. Absolutely. I like that scene where like they're like the mission is dinner.

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Track 3: Like we got to go grocery shopping and like she's traumatized of just everything

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Track 3: she's been through. And so like being outside is hard for her.

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Track 3: And then you got Cass who's paranoid that like he's on Coruscant.

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Track 3: Everyone's watching like he's being watched, you know, and he can't go into

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Track 3: a store like he can go do all these missions, but he can't go get groceries for dinner. what's.

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Track 1: So funny about that to me is that he later i think in the next episode like

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Track 1: breaks all of the protocols of meeting with luthan and yet he.

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Track 3: Can't go.

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Track 1: To the grocer to buy like some melons and.

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Track 3: Yeah oh yeah no that was great and like i love that luther called him out and

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Track 3: it was like dude like everything you're doing is wrong in this moment like all

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Track 3: the rules that we've established and like he's right like dude.

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Track 2: That has to be.

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Track 3: I love that now.

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Track 2: Like i've never you know like that has to be some form of like PTSD,

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Track 2: the, the manner in which they're like, I, I do not have experience with people

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Track 2: that have suffered with PTSD.

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Track 2: Like, please, if either of you have, like, please correct me if I'm wrong.

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Track 2: But, like, the idea that, like, everyday things are hard to do,

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Track 2: but they could and still did those things that put their lives at risk,

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Track 2: you know, like, and that felt everyday. That felt normal.

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Track 1: I don't know personally. I mean, again, I'm going to, like, cite a piece of

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Track 1: media, which maybe isn't the best.

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Track 1: But I don't know if either of you have seen the show You're the Worst. It was on maybe.

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Track 1: Yeah. Yeah, so one of the roommates, the main character's roommate,

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Track 1: has fought in Iraq. And I think he was suffering PTSD.

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Track 1: Yes, he was. And I recall in it, he would have trouble just getting to go outside

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Track 1: and being a normal person.

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Track 1: So they very clearly show Bix's trauma. Like we know that someone tried to sexually assault her.

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Track 1: And then we also know that she was literally tortured. but you

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Track 1: don't ever the only sort of trauma you understand that andrew went through is

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Track 1: really like his childhood like his experience as a child as like basically an

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Track 1: orphan on a planet that was just destroyed by the empire and the so maybe it's

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Track 1: just all of these things that compound.

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Track 3: I mean so i can speak from a little experience that

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Track 3: something that you can see in cas is like the

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Track 3: hyper vigilance when he's out and about he's constantly thinking

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Track 3: that he's being watched he's constantly looking around trying

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Track 3: to see what's happening he starts freaking out in

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Track 3: the store whenever this grocery owner like seems to

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Track 3: be too like personable with bix it's like oh now

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Track 3: we're starting a relationship this guy's gonna know us that means

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Track 3: he could fucking report us that like level of hypervigilance that's

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Track 3: absolutely a symptom of ptsd and um i mean a great example of another like besides

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Track 3: like his his childhood trauma coming into it is um his need to help everybody

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Track 3: because he couldn't help his sister yeah like that's his biggest drive one of his biggest drives,

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Track 3: as a character it's incredible.

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Track 1: Yeah that's true.

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Track 2: That's true i think i think it is um

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Track 2: i think it's a a a missed

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Track 2: opportunity like a miss to say that like he has

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Track 2: not suffered from any trauma other than

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Track 2: uh his childhood because well

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Track 2: first of all we know for a fact that he you know from season one he grew up

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Track 2: under constant worry put into him by marva that they would find out who he was

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Track 2: it's like he lived he grew up his entire life being like under threat of under

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Track 2: be and end up of under being at a watch i.

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Track 3: Mean he was also in the teenage labor camps.

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Track 2: Yeah let's.

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Track 3: Not forget that.

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Track 2: And yeah and then also just the idea

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Track 2: that like and what i i think is i don't know

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Track 2: whether they are making this point but i

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Track 2: think it's worth pointing out that like living in a

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Track 2: capitalist system as a member of

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Track 2: the proletariat is in and of itself traumatic stressful and constantly puts

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Track 2: you in a state of like fight or flight but also like struggle like survival

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Track 2: mentality and like how to respond to things but that in and of itself and like

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Track 2: he wasn't you know especially if you're,

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Track 2: you know as proletariat but like if you're even like more deprived like you know like,

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Track 2: they weren't fucking living like you know they were not they were not petty

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Track 2: bourgeois they were not even you know like artisan class you know like they

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Track 2: were poor you know they think we i think that's clear yeah that kind of life is traumatic.

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Track 1: Yeah and we also have the conversation where he's you know the um oh when his father.

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Track 3: Is killed by storm clones.

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Track 1: Well that that well.

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Track 2: That and then And also.

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Track 1: I was going to say his, you know, when they're leaving the grain planet from

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Track 1: the episode three and he rescues Bix from there, he also shoots a, what is it, a child?

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Track 1: Doesn't he shoot someone and they're having a conversation with Bix about it

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Track 1: in this season? Or is it Bix?

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Track 3: Oh, no, no, no. That happens off screen. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Track 3: he shot a uh imperial stormtrooper who

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Track 3: seemed to have defected oh

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Track 3: right right and of some sort or they're dealing with an imperial like soldier

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Track 3: who was and bix thought there it seemed like bix thought there was like uh potential

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Track 3: and cast didn't take the risk and killed him.

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Track 1: Yeah and he was like then And yeah, that would be pretty traumatic to question

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Track 1: a decision you're making. Yeah.

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Track 1: So yeah, it's all these traumas.

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Track 1: And like, I think it leads, there'll be more interesting, I think,

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Track 1: parts about that in the, you know, his...

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Track 1: how he wavers to do future missions because of it.

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Track 1: And part of that is what we find out in this episode is about Gorman.

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Track 1: So what we in the Cyril is now, I don't want to use the word dating because

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Track 1: I don't really think he's dating.

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Track 2: When is there?

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Track 3: Yeah. What is that? I want to like boy toy. Like I want to say they're dating

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Track 3: because they had the fucking mom.

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Track 2: Yeah. You don't do that. Honestly, yeah. With one boy.

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Track 1: But yeah.

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Track 3: At this point, are they married?

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Track 1: They don't say, but the mother...

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Track 3: Or are they still like seriously dating?

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Track 1: I think we...

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Track 3: Yeah, because... Well, Cyril's undercover. We can't take what the mom says seriously.

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Track 1: That's true. That's true. And I love that though.

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Track 1: When he's like walking to his little post on Gorman and he's talking to his

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Track 1: mom and the mom is like... They're like arguing about the propaganda and things

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Track 1: that are being told. and they're each, you know, oh, I can't believe what you hear on TV.

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Track 1: And it's sort of like, yeah, no shit.

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Track 3: Yeah, no, I love that. I love that, like that little short buildup where you're

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Track 3: like, oh, maybe some bad shit happened to Cyril.

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Track 3: Maybe he's like, you know, seeing some light. Oh, no, of course not.

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Track 2: Yeah, that was, that entire episode.

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Track 3: It was so beautifully done.

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Track 2: Masterfully done. I went into that episode thinking, like as that went on,

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Track 2: I was like, are we going to get a Cyril defecting storyline?

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Track 2: I'm like, is that what we're getting?

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Track 3: I thought it was going to be cool if it was.

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Track 2: Yeah, me too. I was hyped for it.

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Track 1: He was pretty good, I have to say, at his setting the little string at the bottom.

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Track 1: I suspect a lot of this was Deidre and them training him to do this.

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Track 1: I don't think he had these skills upon him.

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Track 1: He's not like Jason Bourne. They just played a, trained him.

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Track 3: Nah, he got hogtied in season one.

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Track 1: Yeah.

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Track 3: Like, come on.

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Track 2: I would love to know what...

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Track 2: The media environment in Star Wars is like the Star Wars universe.

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Track 3: We got a snippet of some talk television, and we also got a snippet of pod racing sports TV.

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Track 1: Yeah.

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Track 3: That's like really all we got of what media is like outside of Senate broadcast.

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Track 2: Yeah.

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Track 1: I bet it's lots of gambling and, you know, like FanDuel advertisements or whatever.

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Track 2: FanDuel, oh God.

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Track 1: Because that's literally all that sports is now. it's like sports

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Track 1: and then gambling advertisements and i suspect there's a lot of gambling in

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Track 1: the star wars universe in general about all that you know especially like han

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Track 1: solo plays that game i forget what it's called like the card thing you know

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Track 1: where he plays lando to win the millennium falcon anyway i.

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Track 3: Mean jedis even make bets about like the ownership of children.

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Track 1: Yeah i mean we're talking about a world where slavery exists so i don't think

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Track 1: the media is exactly going to be uh you know top notch uh but it almost seems

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Track 1: like people don't watch tv in star wars they.

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Track 2: Don't seem to have tvs.

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Track 3: I just think that's like we don't have the perspective of people like cyril's

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Track 3: mom who sit at home and like comfortable she watches a lot of tv but like Like, that hideout,

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Track 3: Luthan's hideout that Bix and Cass are in, there's no TV in there.

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Track 3: Look around that place. There ain't no TV. So, of course, we're not seeing a lot more TV.

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Track 1: That's true. Yeah, the people you're, the perception. Yeah, like,

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Track 1: do you think that the rebels on.

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Track 3: Do you want a fucking Truman show, like, where it follows an individual random,

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Track 3: like, average dude from Star Wars? I mean, I kind of might be into that more

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Track 3: than the new Maltz series you're talking about.

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Track 2: As a world-building lover, yes. Yes, I do. I want that. I want a David.

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Track 3: Actually, now that's more than I think of it, I actually would love a normal-ass person.

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Track 2: I want a David Attenborough-style nature documentary about Star Wars.

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Track 2: Honestly, ever since my childhood, I gotta be honest.

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Track 2: I've never loved Jedi as much as I loved, even as a child. The random-ass animals in Star Wars.

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Track 3: You a Sarlacc fan?

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Track 2: Yeah, I mean, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Track 3: They're pretty fucking sick.

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Track 2: But, like, also those, like, weird, like, frogs that look like lily pads.

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Track 2: Because, you know, remember that big book?

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Track 2: It was just all Star Wars animals. Fucking the greatest book in the world. Yeah.

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Track 1: When they're on, when they show their scenes, like, on Yavin 4,

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Track 1: where, like, the rebels are living, it's not like they're sitting in their little

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Track 1: jungle, like, bungalows, like, watching TV.

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Track 1: Like, they're busy planning or they're resting. Like, that's kind of...

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Track 3: Yeah, well, they live in those temple ruins, so they don't have to build nothing

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Track 3: in the jungle, really. except for like the fucking landing pads.

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Track 2: They like, you know, they do have.

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Track 3: But how did they get rid of the nocturnal animals?

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Track 2: That's it. I want to know what's up with the nocturnal animals.

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Track 3: Did they genocide? Like, did they exterminate them all? Genocide all those fucking dudes?

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Track 2: I like to think they just have big electric fences and they just, you know, they're just.

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Track 1: But they work more effectively than the ones in Jurassic Park.

Speaker:

Track 2: Well, yeah, obviously. I mean, Nedry isn't behind them.

Speaker:

Track 1: Yes, that's true.

Speaker:

Track 3: Expenses were spared on these fences okay yeah.

Speaker:

Track 1: Like the thing about uh the like the gorman

Speaker:

Track 1: plan like so i think i don't know if we probably didn't talk about this before

Speaker:

Track 1: maybe like offline we did so i see a lot of things about how like the because

Speaker:

Track 1: we're introduced like the gorman resistance and they speak what's basically

Speaker:

Track 1: a language that they use french and they they added some syllables i don't i

Speaker:

Track 1: read about a little bit like how they create space france yeah space like do you think 100%.

Speaker:

Track 2: Tell it's French. Like, it's so obvious.

Speaker:

Track 1: I saw a take that said that the Gorman's resistance was supposed to be a mirroring

Speaker:

Track 1: of, like, the French Revolution.

Speaker:

Track 1: And I don't see that, really.

Speaker:

Track 1: I mean, again, I think we maybe talked about it, or maybe we haven't,

Speaker:

Track 1: is sort of the, you see, like, the fomenting of this protest movement kind of

Speaker:

Track 1: on the planet, like, starting.

Speaker:

Track 1: and i don't know i i don't know why they chose it to be french and maybe because

Speaker:

Track 1: it's a planet where they make clothes and that just sounded french.

Speaker:

Track 2: I do like it does

Speaker:

Track 2: not feel like the french revolution today no now mind you i am not a scholar

Speaker:

Track 2: of the french revolution i don't know my history of the french revolution like

Speaker:

Track 2: as well as i'm sure other you know many people do but i do think that like it

Speaker:

Track 2: is an interesting choice to make them very like French coded because,

Speaker:

Track 2: living in the world we live in,

Speaker:

Track 2: And you see, like, you know, you'll see media about, like, you know,

Speaker:

Track 2: France being, like, oh, we're going to, like, push back the retirement age.

Speaker:

Track 2: And then the French riot and they, you know, throw manure on the things and

Speaker:

Track 2: they do all the shit, right?

Speaker:

Track 2: And people are like, why can't Americans be like the French?

Speaker:

Track 2: And then, but if you actually, like, look at it, like, yes, the French do those things.

Speaker:

Track 2: But the French, as a population, yes, you see them do those things,

Speaker:

Track 2: but they also don't give a shit about anybody outside of France.

Speaker:

Track 2: They don't give a shit about the colonialism their country does.

Speaker:

Track 2: They don't protest for that. They don't protest over, you know,

Speaker:

Track 2: the, the fact that the, that the French government, you know,

Speaker:

Track 2: controlled like large parts of Africa for fucking how, what half of such,

Speaker:

Track 2: like it is such the, like, yeah,

Speaker:

Track 2: France, the French people have such a like quote unquote revolutionary or like,

Speaker:

Track 2: you know, like protest culture, but it's all petty bourgeois.

Speaker:

Track 2: like it's all bourgeois liberalism protest.

Speaker:

Track 2: It's never in solidarity with anyone outside of them. It's never in solidarity

Speaker:

Track 2: with the people, their, their country oppresses.

Speaker:

Track 2: It is never anything beyond that.

Speaker:

Track 2: It is all superficial, which is how the Gorman revolution feels to me.

Speaker:

Track 2: Very on the surface and only concerned with themselves. And they couldn't give

Speaker:

Track 2: a shit less about what happens to anybody else.

Speaker:

Track 3: No, I agree, because I mean...

Speaker:

Track 3: Which is funny, because we hear about the Gorman front in season one, Saw talking about it.

Speaker:

Track 3: We get tidbits of Gorman here and there, and we know the history,

Speaker:

Track 3: the first Gorman massacre when Moff Tarkin was trying to land,

Speaker:

Track 3: and a history of protesting, but they don't really do anything.

Speaker:

Track 3: But it's kind of crazy just hearing Bill repeat the Empire's point that Gormans

Speaker:

Track 3: are uppity and only care about themselves.

Speaker:

Track 2: Wow that is not how i expected that to go i.

Speaker:

Track 3: Couldn't resist i couldn't resist.

Speaker:

Track 1: Well what if i quote directly from carl marx's 1852

Speaker:

Track 1: the 18th broom air of louis bonaparte where he says the proletarian party appears

Speaker:

Track 1: as an appendage of the petty bourgeoisie democratic party it is betrayed and

Speaker:

Track 1: dropped by the latter and then it says you know the the period that we had before

Speaker:

Track 1: us comprises the mostly motley mixture of crying contradictions,

Speaker:

Track 1: constitutionalists who conspire openly against the constitution revolutionists

Speaker:

Track 1: who are confessedly constitutional.

Speaker:

Track 1: And you have all the, like, I'm not going to read the whole thing.

Speaker:

Track 1: It's a lot of, it's many, many words, but I think it is clearly this petty bourgeois group.

Speaker:

Track 2: The American left or the performative American left and the performative,

Speaker:

Track 2: like, aspect of organizers in the United States who are not part of a party,

Speaker:

Track 2: who are not like, oh, Marxist-Leninist, I'm part of a party, I do this, da-da-da.

Speaker:

Track 2: Those constantly prop up what the French do as some kind of fucking great thing.

Speaker:

Track 2: And it's like, all they ever do is just all... They don't give a shit when an,

Speaker:

Track 2: immigrant from Senegal...

Speaker:

Track 2: The white French protesters by and large don't give a shit when an immigrant

Speaker:

Track 2: from Senegal gets murdered by the cops in France.

Speaker:

Track 2: They don't fucking, they don't take to the streets over that.

Speaker:

Track 2: They take to the streets over my retirement age went out. Which,

Speaker:

Track 2: listen, we should be doing that here.

Speaker:

Track 2: But that's the bare fucking minimum.

Speaker:

Track 3: Right?

Speaker:

Track 1: Yeah. They're not anti-imperialists.

Speaker:

Track 2: Right. And that's like the key. You can't be – you can't fight against the exploitation

Speaker:

Track 2: and oppression of yourself and ignore the oppression and exploitation of other

Speaker:

Track 2: people. It doesn't work that way.

Speaker:

Track 2: We are not – no one's free unless we're all free.

Speaker:

Track 1: Let me ask you this question and, I mean –.

Speaker:

Track 3: Like to play devil's.

Speaker:

Track 1: Advocate like do.

Speaker:

Track 3: You real quick real quick real quick bill i'm super proud of us for maintaining

Speaker:

Track 3: the tradition of being the most of whenever we're on a left of the projector

Speaker:

Track 3: episode it being the most theory heavy this time we got fucking evan to pull

Speaker:

Track 3: out theory dude like i'm so happy like.

Speaker:

Track 2: Literally quote but yeah well.

Speaker:

Track 3: Dude oh it was so beautiful i just had to mention that well what i was gonna say.

Speaker:

Track 1: Is like if you think about like this is just purely this This is speculation

Speaker:

Track 1: of just like the Star Wars universe.

Speaker:

Track 1: There's countless planets in all these places. And most of these planets at

Speaker:

Track 1: this point are now feeling the, like the boot of the Empire.

Speaker:

Track 1: They're, they're getting taxed higher.

Speaker:

Track 1: They're getting, you know, they have presents on their planet.

Speaker:

Track 1: They're all getting, all their shit's getting fucked up.

Speaker:

Track 1: But how many of these planets outside of Gorman do you think as they're starting

Speaker:

Track 1: to either get recruited to the cause or like they realize there's a rebellion,

Speaker:

Track 1: that they're trying to build or whatever they know about it,

Speaker:

Track 1: they probably don't necessarily think about the needs and the scorn and the

Speaker:

Track 1: problems of other planets.

Speaker:

Track 1: I think that most of these planets probably in the Star Wars universe are thinking

Speaker:

Track 1: inward to their own personal problems until they are fully radicalized and realize

Speaker:

Track 1: that they are part of a global,

Speaker:

Track 1: not global, galactic cause.

Speaker:

Track 1: So I think there's like the Gormans, which is why Luthan I think in the second

Speaker:

Track 1: episode wants to send Andor there is he sees this petty bourgeois planet starting

Speaker:

Track 1: to go on their side and if they can show this them being on their side to other

Speaker:

Track 1: petty bourgeois planets,

Speaker:

Track 1: they will join the cause and they will have an actual you know,

Speaker:

Track 1: intergalactic rebellion, not just the people who have been at the booth for

Speaker:

Track 1: longer, like Andor as like children.

Speaker:

Track 2: I have to push you back on that by pointing out by pointing out that,

Speaker:

Track 2: Like, you literally, you're like, they joined the cause. And,

Speaker:

Track 2: like, there's representatives of theirs on Yavin.

Speaker:

Track 2: Like, you never once hear, let's talk to the Gorman guy on Yavin.

Speaker:

Track 2: Like, we should send the Gorman guy from, who's on Yavin, to fucking Gorman. No.

Speaker:

Track 2: It's, let's send Cass to Gorman. And then Gorman's like, what can you do for us?

Speaker:

Track 1: That's true.

Speaker:

Track 2: We want to help. not what not where we want to be part of this larger struggle

Speaker:

Track 2: what can you do for us what can you bring us.

Speaker:

Track 1: Without a doubt i mean that's that's like the big thing in episode two

Speaker:

Track 1: when not episode two episode five of the

Speaker:

Track 1: show the episode two we're going to talk about when and or

Speaker:

Track 1: goes there as his like the coolest uh valerian

Speaker:

Track 1: as varians i keep saying valerians guy and

Speaker:

Track 1: he's they're like not impressed by him

Speaker:

Track 1: like for one they're also terrible at their like you

Speaker:

Track 1: know at they just like go up to him in the middle of the

Speaker:

Track 1: restaurant assuming that it's him like but if they were wrong they would have

Speaker:

Track 1: just like out of themselves but yet you're right like they're like what should

Speaker:

Track 1: have you done and they say the same thing to uh to um vel and cinta vel and

Speaker:

Track 1: cinta like they don't like want to listen to them like what should have you

Speaker:

Track 1: done obviously they're not going to tell them the shit that they've done yeah.

Speaker:

Track 3: No who the fuck are you why would i tell you what i've done.

Speaker:

Track 1: Yeah and like they're coming i.

Speaker:

Track 3: Know what i'm doing and it's clear you don't yeah.

Speaker:

Track 1: Yeah and yeah so i think i i yeah i see you're saying bill i i would uh i would

Speaker:

Track 1: agree with that and then like the last thing that we find like the last thing on the episode,

Speaker:

Track 1: four is what's happening on coruscance like those like the three things happen simultaneously,

Speaker:

Track 1: and this is really the only thing that really happens aside

Speaker:

Track 1: from luther uh luthering kind of seeing that

Speaker:

Track 1: bix is having uh you know struggling and is doing drugs

Speaker:

Track 1: and you know just to help her sleep i mean god

Speaker:

Track 1: forbid someone takes an edible before they go to bed and like you know

Speaker:

Track 1: the what you know

Speaker:

Track 1: and he's like warning her about it but the other one is the isb meeting between

Speaker:

Track 1: uh pentagrass and cyril and deidre like talking about their plan but deidre

Speaker:

Track 1: and pentagrass like having the like wink wink after he leaves saying we can't

Speaker:

Track 1: tell him that he's essentially plotting a genocide,

Speaker:

Track 1: and again any scene in that room that little round white room baller.

Speaker:

Track 3: It's such a good time in that room why is it such a good time in that room?

Speaker:

Track 2: It feels so wrong but like I genuinely I,

Speaker:

Track 2: Feel bad for syrup sometimes.

Speaker:

Track 3: I mean, you're falling into like that well-written character stuff, man. You're just like.

Speaker:

Track 2: He's so clearly being taken for a ride.

Speaker:

Track 3: Oh, for sure.

Speaker:

Track 1: Well, see, that's the point where I say he's not dating.

Speaker:

Track 1: He's not really dating Deidre. Like he thinks he is. I think that she both is

Speaker:

Track 1: using him and also, like, needs him because she's just lonely as shit.

Speaker:

Track 3: I mean, yeah, okay, that too.

Speaker:

Track 2: Yeah.

Speaker:

Track 3: Yeah, no, now that you said the lonely thing.

Speaker:

Track 1: Yeah. Like, think about it. She's in this room with basically all men. She's lonely.

Speaker:

Track 1: She doesn't like any of them. They're all, like, horrible people like she is. I can't be with them.

Speaker:

Track 1: Cyril actually does seem to care about things.

Speaker:

Track 1: Unfortunately, what he cares about is the Empire.

Speaker:

Track 2: Yeah.

Speaker:

Track 3: Yeah.

Speaker:

Track 2: Well, it's the thing. It's like Cyril really is like he is our,

Speaker:

Track 2: our look at an ordinary citizen in the empire, like an ordinary,

Speaker:

Track 2: like patriotic citizen that is the patriotic American.

Speaker:

Track 2: Like, Oh, you know, we're going to do when we're do we're fighting the good fight.

Speaker:

Track 2: We really are the freest country and we're, we're, they hate us for our freedoms.

Speaker:

Track 2: Like they, they, He is the average patriotic American.

Speaker:

Track 1: And if you think about it this way, he's like the guy who put his American flag

Speaker:

Track 1: outside of his house after 9-11 and then joined some group and then, you know.

Speaker:

Track 3: Listen to all those country songs.

Speaker:

Track 1: Yeah, he had like a George Bush tattoo.

Speaker:

Track 2: He was right there with, what's his face, Marky Mark. He was right there with

Speaker:

Track 2: Wahlberg. You know, if I was on that plane.

Speaker:

Track 3: If he came from a little bit sandier of a planet, he would have got the fucking

Speaker:

Track 3: back of his speeder painted in a mural of like 9-11. Remember?

Speaker:

Track 1: Mission accomplished. Oh, yeah.

Speaker:

Track 1: Yeah. I mean, I can see why you could like feel bad for him.

Speaker:

Track 1: But then at the same time, he was.

Speaker:

Track 1: But let me ask you this then.

Speaker:

Track 2: I just feel good is a strong word.

Speaker:

Track 2: I recognize where he comes from.

Speaker:

Track 1: Pity. Yeah, you pity him.

Speaker:

Track 3: Pity's a good one.

Speaker:

Track 2: Yeah, that's...

Speaker:

Track 1: The question is this, though. How was he sort of radicalized to support the

Speaker:

Track 1: Empire if there's no media to help that process?

Speaker:

Track 2: There must be.

Speaker:

Track 3: There's got to be media. I'm telling you. We just don't see it.

Speaker:

Track 1: Yeah. It's not important.

Speaker:

Track 3: Like as much as we would enjoy like

Speaker:

Track 3: the followings of an everyday person like through

Speaker:

Track 3: the fucking fall of the republican rise of the empire um they're not making

Speaker:

Track 3: that show no they're not fucking making that show they're not making another

Speaker:

Track 3: show the dude that like works fucking 16 hour days and then watches tv for three

Speaker:

Track 3: hours because he doesn't want to go to sleep just yet because, you know,

Speaker:

Track 3: I want to feel like I have some time for myself, you know, and so I'm going

Speaker:

Track 3: to sacrifice my sleep, you know, like we all do.

Speaker:

Track 1: Here's my TV show pitch to Tony Gilroy, all right?

Speaker:

Track 1: It's a TV show about a TV show, like newsroom, but in the Star Wars universe, and it's evil.

Speaker:

Track 1: So you follow a TV show, a propaganda show in the Star Wars universe,

Speaker:

Track 1: like from the perspective of feeding it out to the people.

Speaker:

Track 2: I'd watch that.

Speaker:

Track 3: Oh have it be like a corporate news too so like yeah like cnn aren't the anchors

Speaker:

Track 3: aren't fully in on it but you know there is an imperial office in the back that

Speaker:

Track 3: uh oversees all the scripts and everything and so like we gotta keep it hush-hush

Speaker:

Track 3: what our personal actual personal opinions are that would be the.

Speaker:

Track 1: The ISB has like their liaison for like.

Speaker:

Track 2: I'd watch media. I'd watch that a hundred percent.

Speaker:

Track 3: That'd be so good. So good.

Speaker:

Track 1: So, Tony Gilroy, when you listen to this podcast.

Speaker:

Track 2: When you listen to this.

Speaker:

Track 1: When you listen to this in your car on the way to work.

Speaker:

Track 3: And before you're on with us.

Speaker:

Track 1: Just call me. Just call me, Tony. Yeah. You know. Fun fact. Tony Gilroy was born on 9-11.

Speaker:

Track 2: Well, not actual.

Speaker:

Track 1: No, no.

Speaker:

Track 2: Not the 9-11. Yeah, not. He's 25.

Speaker:

Track 3: Not the day the towers got.

Speaker:

Track 1: No, he's not that young. He was born in 1956. 56.

Speaker:

Track 1: Well, so in the episode six, the second episode of this grouping,

Speaker:

Track 1: I think is when we were, I already kind of alluded to it, is there's several.

Speaker:

Track 3: Is that episode five?

Speaker:

Track 1: Episode five. Oh, and episode six.

Speaker:

Track 3: There we go. Episode five, which is episode two.

Speaker:

Track 1: Oh, you're right. Episode five.

Speaker:

Track 3: Yeah.

Speaker:

Track 2: Yes.

Speaker:

Track 1: I was like, I.

Speaker:

Track 3: You're giving yourself too many numbers to work with, my man.

Speaker:

Track 1: I know that that's the. Well, then we also got the BBY, you know,

Speaker:

Track 1: bullshit. Anyway, I was looking at the wrong section of my notes.

Speaker:

Track 1: But like this, so there's like, in this episode, there's still also like three simultaneous plots.

Speaker:

Track 1: You have like the stuff that's happening on Gorman, because we have now Variant Sky is going there.

Speaker:

Track 1: And we have like the stuff that's happening on Coruscant. I think I actually

Speaker:

Track 1: screwed up a minute ago and was talking about Bix and Luthan and Luthan.

Speaker:

Track 1: That happens actually in episode five. It doesn't matter.

Speaker:

Track 3: It's fine.

Speaker:

Track 1: It's close.

Speaker:

Track 3: It's all within this. You should

Speaker:

Track 3: you listening at home. You should have watched all three before this.

Speaker:

Track 1: Yeah.

Speaker:

Track 3: You should have watched all of it by now, honestly, and rewatched at least these

Speaker:

Track 3: three by now before listening to this.

Speaker:

Track 1: Well, my favorite plot line of this episode, episode five, is Clea having to

Speaker:

Track 1: go to Skaldin's party to get rid of the listening device that she has there.

Speaker:

Track 1: And she has to get Lonnie to stand in the way and it's super tense.

Speaker:

Track 1: And it's happening simultaneously as the shit that's happening on.

Speaker:

Track 1: Did I fuck up? Is this in the next episode?

Speaker:

Track 3: Yeah, you fucked up. That's in episode six.

Speaker:

Track 1: All right, I'll cut that off.

Speaker:

Track 3: I was just about to say something, bud.

Speaker:

Track 1: Yeah.

Speaker:

Track 2: Now, this is when she brings up, this is when she finds out.

Speaker:

Track 1: Yeah, she learns that the listening device is there, or that she has to get

Speaker:

Track 1: rid of it because they're going to re-evaluate.

Speaker:

Track 3: Yeah, they're doing it, yeah, re-evaluate, inspect everything because there's a fake piece.

Speaker:

Track 1: And this is also the, like,

Speaker:

Track 1: where the Resistance is now seriously recruiting Cyril on Gorman because they

Speaker:

Track 1: think they have this, you know, super great person who's going to,

Speaker:

Track 1: you know, give them information.

Speaker:

Track 1: And what I think is even funnier is that when Cassian and Orr gets there,

Speaker:

Track 1: he's like, this is what they do.

Speaker:

Track 1: They feed false information to people like you and they're like,

Speaker:

Track 1: nah, he wouldn't do that to us.

Speaker:

Track 2: Like yeah fucking stupids like immediately he immediately calls them on it and

Speaker:

Track 2: they're like no it's not possible and then they go to lutheran we're not impressed

Speaker:

Track 2: by him it's like if you would listen to him i.

Speaker:

Track 1: Mean this is why you have the chain of command in these situations and they

Speaker:

Track 1: in every step of the way the gormans do not listen and it,

Speaker:

Track 1: It brings in Cyril as like a spy for them, who then in the final episode of

Speaker:

Track 1: this grouping in episode six, when they do the heist of the weapons on Gorman,

Speaker:

Track 1: Cyril's able to watch the whole thing and fucking their stupid ass young kid shoots Finta.

Speaker:

Track 2: They don't listen to anyone. They don't even listen to their own supposed chain of command.

Speaker:

Track 2: Everything the Gorman do is a

Speaker:

Track 2: textbook case of the dangers of

Speaker:

Track 2: horizontal leadership and the failure of horizontal leadership to take accountability

Speaker:

Track 2: for anything and move forward with accountability to each other and yourself and follow through.

Speaker:

Track 2: Because even the people that are seemingly in charge are constantly disregarded,

Speaker:

Track 2: which if you tell someone in a horizontal methodology, if you imply someone

Speaker:

Track 2: is in charge because it always ends up that way,

Speaker:

Track 2: and then you defer to them in any way, shape, or form, even if it's not officially,

Speaker:

Track 2: and then things don't go right.

Speaker:

Track 2: That leader who isn't a leader isn't held accountable and then they continue

Speaker:

Track 2: to make and contribute to bad choices.

Speaker:

Track 1: Yeah.

Speaker:

Track 3: Completely agree. And it's crazy too because it's so silly with the Gorman.

Speaker:

Track 3: Like their whole thing is like anytime they get told to do something,

Speaker:

Track 3: they're like, it's the same argument every single time.

Speaker:

Track 3: I am Gore. I know better.

Speaker:

Track 2: Yep.

Speaker:

Track 3: Like, fuck, dude.

Speaker:

Track 2: Pure nationalism.

Speaker:

Track 1: Yeah. Oh, God. I mean, if, what was I going to say?

Speaker:

Track 1: If Saw Gerrera was there, he would have just killed them all where they stood.

Speaker:

Track 2: Just Saw Gerrera just like bloodbath.

Speaker:

Track 1: He would genocide the fucking, you know, the revolutionaries there and be like,

Speaker:

Track 1: we're going to take it from here, buddy.

Speaker:

Track 2: I would love a conversation. I would love to see an outtake where Saw Gerrera

Speaker:

Track 2: meets the Gormans and then hooks up with Luthan and they have a conversation about the Gormans.

Speaker:

Track 1: It's like, these fucking French dudes in their berets have got to go.

Speaker:

Track 2: I would pay money for that. I would pay money. Oh, man.

Speaker:

Track 1: So this is another random thing I noticed when I rewatched it and just a theory

Speaker:

Track 1: I had. So in this episode, too, like Cyril has to vacate their like his his

Speaker:

Track 1: office, the whatever the government agency he works for and blanking on it.

Speaker:

Track 1: They find the listening device, which the Gormans were using.

Speaker:

Track 1: Do you think that Deidre made that happen?

Speaker:

Track 1: Like she knew, they knew there was a device there and they reported it on themselves

Speaker:

Track 1: to deepen Cyril's, you know, potential support for like, because he like is

Speaker:

Track 1: extra mad about it or is it that he's playing along and he knows what they're doing?

Speaker:

Track 2: I've wondered that the whole time.

Speaker:

Track 3: He's definitely playing. He's, I think he's definitely playing along.

Speaker:

Track 3: I think that is the Gorman front's listening device, but he's playing it off as like, you know,

Speaker:

Track 3: the still hating ISB for getting fired from Primor Security Corp friendly Gorman type.

Speaker:

Track 3: And I think he does it extremely well, you know, like giving ISB shit as soon

Speaker:

Track 3: as they come into the office. Like, no, no, no, this is my office.

Speaker:

Track 3: Like, who are you? No, no, no.

Speaker:

Track 3: Call headquarters. All right. As he gets dragged out.

Speaker:

Track 3: Yeah, no. He plays his role incredibly well as the undercover double agent.

Speaker:

Track 2: Which is kind of a shame because it's like wasted talents. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker:

Track 1: Imagine if he knew who Andor was later and was like, oh, I actually don't like

Speaker:

Track 1: any of this and I will join your revolution. Yeah.

Speaker:

Track 1: And so we, I have our, because I already like skipped over, we already talked

Speaker:

Track 1: about like the shit with, um, Luthan and his like suspection suspecting Bix for using drugs.

Speaker:

Track 1: And why it doesn't suspect he like literally finds like the drugs there.

Speaker:

Track 1: It's very, also it's very clear that they just sell drugs like at the grocery store.

Speaker:

Track 2: Yeah. We could just, yeah. I mean what? New Jersey does too now.

Speaker:

Track 1: I guess that's true. I guess.

Speaker:

Track 3: Is that, is that not just capitalism? I mean, remember back in the day you could

Speaker:

Track 3: just get laudanum and codeine.

Speaker:

Track 3: cocaine from the fucking store way back and went.

Speaker:

Track 1: Yeah the only reason they stopped doing that is because pharmaceutical companies

Speaker:

Track 1: wanted to make the money off it.

Speaker:

Track 3: Yeah so i mean it's.

Speaker:

Track 2: Not that weird.

Speaker:

Track 3: Companies wanted to make even more profit i can see it.

Speaker:

Track 1: So yeah we were talking before about like what it would be like to see just

Speaker:

Track 1: sort of a a worker's perspective from this i think the one you get in this which

Speaker:

Track 1: is great which you get twice which we won't talk about the second time is the

Speaker:

Track 1: bellhop at the hotel when when andor gets there and at first he's like he's

Speaker:

Track 1: doesn't want to talk to him because he's, you know, afraid.

Speaker:

Track 3: No, he's told not to.

Speaker:

Track 1: Well, he's told not to, right. And then he sort of opened it up.

Speaker:

Track 3: He's told not to by management, yeah.

Speaker:

Track 1: I had this suspicion.

Speaker:

Track 2: Gorman.

Speaker:

Track 1: This is probably way off. I think that the bellhop doesn't believe Andor's cover story.

Speaker:

Track 1: Like that he's this, you know, designer guy. Because he doesn't seem to really

Speaker:

Track 1: know very much about the history of this place that he's like dreamed of going

Speaker:

Track 1: to. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

Speaker:

Track 2: I think he's the best Gorman on the entire show. Hands down.

Speaker:

Track 3: Honestly, yeah. But like I don't think he knew like from the jump.

Speaker:

Track 1: No, probably not.

Speaker:

Track 3: Maybe he had like a suspicion and then in like the later episode we can talk about something else.

Speaker:

Track 2: I think, honestly, like, if we, like,

Speaker:

Track 2: again, to go back to, like, the Gorman revolution and, like,

Speaker:

Track 2: the revolutionaries in Gorman and what they actually are and how they,

Speaker:

Track 2: the fact that, like, that kid, there is a difference between that kid and them.

Speaker:

Track 2: Most of the other, like, Gorman revolutionaries are, you know, they're artisans.

Speaker:

Track 2: you know there he is a worker and they

Speaker:

Track 2: say to him like don't you know whatever right but we

Speaker:

Track 2: get a glimpse and i think evan is correct to a certain

Speaker:

Track 2: point like i think evan is correct and like and i think

Speaker:

Track 2: it's a credit to the point like they don't give credit to like this guy like

Speaker:

Track 2: listen when you're a person that does that like every day and you interact with

Speaker:

Track 2: like people every day that walk in and out and you go you know like you know

Speaker:

Track 2: people and you are quick to pick up on things And they don't give credit for that.

Speaker:

Track 2: And really, in the end, out of all of the people involved in the Gorman Revolution,

Speaker:

Track 2: or the Gorman Resistance, he is the most sensible one.

Speaker:

Track 2: Like, hands down.

Speaker:

Track 1: Yeah, and yeah. We can't talk too much more about him as a character,

Speaker:

Track 1: which we've probably already—again, you've probably already watched this,

Speaker:

Track 1: but he does return in a future episode, as he should. He's a cool character.

Speaker:

Track 1: i think that's pretty much all of the things that i have for this up for like

Speaker:

Track 1: episode five the only thing i did wrote at the end was would i think we already

Speaker:

Track 1: talked about this offline was like would cyril have done what he is doing this

Speaker:

Track 1: entire time if he knew the real reasons for what he was doing it i think you both said no.

Speaker:

Track 2: I don't think so.

Speaker:

Track 3: I don't think so.

Speaker:

Track 2: Like it's hard to talk about it without without really going forward exactly.

Speaker:

Track 1: Yeah well we'll leave it at that we'll we'll leave our our question and we'll but.

Speaker:

Track 2: I do i do think that i think deidre and pendergast like i think they know he

Speaker:

Track 2: wouldn't because otherwise they wouldn't be so like he can't know.

Speaker:

Track 1: He must never know he.

Speaker:

Track 2: Can't know i think even they know,

Speaker:

Track 2: He would not be so on board with this.

Speaker:

Track 1: I mean, think about how few people were in that room in the very first episode.

Speaker:

Track 1: Like, 20 people. Like, those are the only people who know.

Speaker:

Track 1: Although, I suppose the people who are bringing shipments to Gorman don't know

Speaker:

Track 1: exactly what the reason for it is. But they know they're doing something.

Speaker:

Track 1: Like, they're bringing weapons and materials.

Speaker:

Track 2: Do they know that, though?

Speaker:

Track 1: Oh, do they not know it's in the boxes, is what you're saying?

Speaker:

Track 2: Cyril even says the leading documents like there's a there's so there's it's

Speaker:

Track 2: so easy to like you know in any kind of like major bureaucracy you know like

Speaker:

Track 2: it's easy to like kind of like for like the people that are just doing the work to like not know.

Speaker:

Track 3: Yeah no there's like there's so many I mean there's so many layers of obfuscation

Speaker:

Track 3: within the empire where it's just like they could easily make it where it's

Speaker:

Track 3: like yeah the whatever soldiers that are fucking loading everything into the

Speaker:

Track 3: fucking newly built armory don't even know what planet they're fucking on.

Speaker:

Track 2: Yeah.

Speaker:

Track 3: Only the pilot knows and the pilot's not allowed to talk to any of the fucking

Speaker:

Track 3: dudes unloading. It could be something like that.

Speaker:

Track 1: I mean, they don't even need people on the plane besides the pilot.

Speaker:

Track 1: They could just have people on Gorman just unload nameless, tagless boxes.

Speaker:

Track 3: Mm-hmm.

Speaker:

Track 2: Yeah.

Speaker:

Track 1: I mean, they could have a droid fucking deliver it. They don't even need fucking people. Anyway.

Speaker:

Track 1: Well, I mean, they're building the Death Star literally with like only the people

Speaker:

Track 1: doing it knowing somehow. Anyway.

Speaker:

Track 3: And I mean, and I mean, in rogue one, who is it that fucking gave the info? It was a fucking pilot.

Speaker:

Track 1: Yeah.

Speaker:

Track 2: Which goes to like, what I was actually just going to say is like,

Speaker:

Track 2: I imagine in like, if you, if you could think about how, and this is like,

Speaker:

Track 2: you know, this is not like, this is not a leftist observation.

Speaker:

Track 2: Um, but like, if you can imagine how easy it would be, especially like, you know,

Speaker:

Track 2: at a time in, like on, in the real world, but before we had like mass communication,

Speaker:

Track 2: like internet and all that shit to like keep stuff like that like under wraps

Speaker:

Track 2: if you like took someone from like you know like like america to like you know

Speaker:

Track 2: the pacific ocean and we're doing something on a fucking aircraft carrier or something it's,

Speaker:

Track 2: I imagine it's pretty fucking easy to keep some kind of, like,

Speaker:

Track 2: bottleneck on communication when you're in space.

Speaker:

Track 2: Like, when you're on a— When you're the Empire.

Speaker:

Track 3: For sure. Like, if you're, like— Like, you're in charge of all this shit.

Speaker:

Track 2: For sure. Yeah, if you're, like, building a space station, I imagine it's difficult

Speaker:

Track 2: to get information out of that.

Speaker:

Track 1: Yeah, I mean, you could jam the communications. You could prevent them from

Speaker:

Track 1: being able to talk to anyone. I mean, yeah, clearly.

Speaker:

Track 2: And then not only that, like, then, like, you know, they go home.

Speaker:

Track 2: Like, let's say they go home, which we have no reason to believe that happens. Like, first off.

Speaker:

Track 1: Oh, a lot of those people building the Death Star, they are,

Speaker:

Track 1: it's a one-way trip to build a Death Star.

Speaker:

Track 2: We have no reason to believe that they're going home anywhere.

Speaker:

Track 2: But even if they did, like, you know, it's not like you go home to,

Speaker:

Track 2: like, Ohio and you could talk to your friend in, like, Wyoming.

Speaker:

Track 2: It's like, well, you go home to, like, I don't know. I don't know a fucking Star Wars planet name.

Speaker:

Track 2: give me a borkin and then you know like fucking on the other side of the galaxy

Speaker:

Track 2: you know like what are you gonna like what drop a phone call to somebody on

Speaker:

Track 2: the other side of the goddamn galaxy well information control is probably a lot easier.

Speaker:

Track 1: They could go back to tatooine but we know what happens to that.

Speaker:

Track 2: Oh yeah i forgot about tatooine.

Speaker:

Track 3: I mean we got examples in andor of like the layers of obfuscation that the fucking

Speaker:

Track 3: empire has within itself like both like whenever they're talking about enacting

Speaker:

Track 3: the P the P O R D there's like going no going further no one will have any issue

Speaker:

Track 3: getting accessing naval or army documents.

Speaker:

Track 3: that's something that the isb had an issue with before

Speaker:

Track 3: layers of obfuscation i mean plus they have the competing branch the isa like

Speaker:

Track 3: because that's fascist competition intercompetition you know you got to have

Speaker:

Track 3: two different competing intelligence agencies against each other that's where

Speaker:

Track 3: kind of krennic uh came up from is the isa yeah um well that leads to you.

Speaker:

Track 1: Know uh you know people working harder to do well they're also like suspecting

Speaker:

Track 1: each other probably for doing things.

Speaker:

Track 3: Yeah Yeah, we get Dejra trying to get in trouble for accessing documents in

Speaker:

Track 3: another ISB agent sector, like in season one.

Speaker:

Track 3: So like there's so many layers of obfuscation within the Empire.

Speaker:

Track 2: Yeah, her biggest issue with the Empire, like straight up, is that like she is such a true believer.

Speaker:

Track 2: She's like, we should all be kumbaya together so we can destroy everyone else.

Speaker:

Track 2: Like, that seriously seems like her biggest problem is, like,

Speaker:

Track 2: we aren't working together well enough so that we can oppress people better.

Speaker:

Track 1: Yes, make it easy for me to arrest people and torture them.

Speaker:

Track 2: Yeah.

Speaker:

Track 1: Which, I guess, as you mentioned, like, the P.O.R.D. is, like,

Speaker:

Track 1: of interest in episode six, where you have Ma and Mothma trying to,

Speaker:

Track 1: like, rally votes to prevent the Empire from being able to just willy-nilly arresting people.

Speaker:

Track 1: And I think actually that scene where she's going to the different people and

Speaker:

Track 1: they're talking and like making their arguments to her about like,

Speaker:

Track 1: oh, like the crime numbers are just whoever is giving them.

Speaker:

Track 1: And like, that's actually a very relevant and useful tool that's used now where

Speaker:

Track 1: like, quote unquote, blue states are like, oh, we have problems with this kind of crime.

Speaker:

Track 1: And the crime their problem is with is encampments and people that are just

Speaker:

Track 1: trying to live their lives, you know, on the street.

Speaker:

Track 3: Yeah, she had that beautiful line. It was like, are we fighting criminals or making them?

Speaker:

Track 2: Yes.

Speaker:

Track 1: Such a great line. I wrote that line down, too.

Speaker:

Track 3: Oh, so good. Oh, I didn't even know you had it down. Where is that?

Speaker:

Track 3: Oh, is it in the episode six part?

Speaker:

Track 1: Maybe I didn't. Maybe I just was.

Speaker:

Track 3: Yeah, no, that was such a beautiful line that she said.

Speaker:

Track 2: No, you got that. That's right. In episode four, you wrote that right down.

Speaker:

Track 1: Oh, we missed it then.

Speaker:

Track 2: Your confusing criminality and politics. Are we finding criminals we're making?

Speaker:

Track 3: There you go. Yeah.

Speaker:

Track 2: Which, you know, is a very valid point. But also, like, you know,

Speaker:

Track 2: there's a lot of talk about.

Speaker:

Track 3: Very reminiscent on the War on Terror.

Speaker:

Track 2: Right. But also at the same time, like, there's a lot of talk about how,

Speaker:

Track 2: like, Ander is like, oh, this is so, like, so relevant to, like, right now.

Speaker:

Track 2: And it's like, but they wrote this before this. And it's like, there's a reason.

Speaker:

Track 2: There's a reason it's reminiscent. It's because this shit just keeps repeating

Speaker:

Track 2: if you don't do anything about it. the more things don't change,

Speaker:

Track 2: the more they stay the same.

Speaker:

Track 1: What the line really should be, in my mind, is you think of,

Speaker:

Track 1: like, what's that tweet from, you know, when, if Israel, like,

Speaker:

Track 1: killed by family, the first thing I would be is, like, to start Hamas too, right?

Speaker:

Track 1: Like, they're not making criminals. What they're doing is making people who want to rebel.

Speaker:

Track 1: They're literally arresting people and making them more angry.

Speaker:

Track 1: And if they didn't do that, they probably fascists always go too far too quickly

Speaker:

Track 1: because that's just what they do.

Speaker:

Track 1: And the more and deeper and harder it gets for everyone, the more likely are

Speaker:

Track 1: they are probably to realize what's going on and rise up. And so they're just arresting everyone.

Speaker:

Track 1: Like Andor goes to prison in season one for no reason whatsoever.

Speaker:

Track 1: Although I'll be it. He should have gone to prison for his major,

Speaker:

Track 1: you know, heist, but well.

Speaker:

Track 3: For his other shit.

Speaker:

Track 1: I'm saying like that's what they could have arrested him for,

Speaker:

Track 1: but instead they arrest him for nothing.

Speaker:

Track 3: Yeah, no, I mean, it's, it's perfectly like you said, I mean,

Speaker:

Track 3: and it's even like historically, but also given to you, the viewer in the show

Speaker:

Track 3: in season one, when they're talking about like any crime that has any remotely,

Speaker:

Track 3: any impact on the empire will have like quadruple sentence or whatever the fuck they said.

Speaker:

Track 3: Like they revealed their hand right then that they're going to go overboard and crazy. And like,

Speaker:

Track 3: I just love it. It's so just on the nose and poignant. Yeah.

Speaker:

Track 1: But we didn't know then though was the reason was they needed labor.

Speaker:

Track 1: Like that's the, that was the main reason for that. I mean, not the only reason,

Speaker:

Track 1: but they're also just trying to.

Speaker:

Track 1: And then the thing that we also learn in episode six of this season is like

Speaker:

Track 1: the, another ISB conversation where they're talking about the,

Speaker:

Track 1: the fact that they're arresting too many people and they can't torture them all quickly enough.

Speaker:

Track 2: Which is just.

Speaker:

Track 3: Hey they said process okay so obviously it's processing not torture it's advanced

Speaker:

Track 3: interrogation yeah enhanced interrogation techniques yeah that's exactly they.

Speaker:

Track 1: Blue milk board them that.

Speaker:

Track 3: They workshopped it they had a test group they had a whole focus group on the

Speaker:

Track 3: words process is what we're going with.

Speaker:

Track 2: That entire conversation was

Speaker:

Track 2: truly wild and it's like

Speaker:

Track 2: for the most part now correct me

Speaker:

Track 2: if i'm wrong if i don't like that conversation about

Speaker:

Track 2: and like deidre's there like that entire company that has no purpose for the

Speaker:

Track 2: overall story other than to just show the way those systems work it's not about, you know,

Speaker:

Track 2: it's not about prepping for the Death Star. It's not about Gorman.

Speaker:

Track 2: It's not about you know, anything else other than to just show viewers this

Speaker:

Track 2: is how these systems work.

Speaker:

Track 2: Take in people and put them into forced labor. Like, that's the purpose.

Speaker:

Track 2: And to, the cruelty is the point.

Speaker:

Track 2: Like, that's the entire scene, that's the point, is to show the cruelty is the point.

Speaker:

Track 3: I mean, overall all isn't it isn't

Speaker:

Track 3: that the whole point of any of the isb scenes i mean i mean in terms of.

Speaker:

Track 2: The show because like.

Speaker:

Track 3: Oh yeah no no plot.

Speaker:

Track 2: Point but this.

Speaker:

Track 3: Yeah no no i'm fully agreeing but like we could never get any isb scenes and

Speaker:

Track 3: still understand they're building a death star yeah just you know star wars

Speaker:

Track 3: knowledge but like no it's so beautiful that we get that.

Speaker:

Track 1: It's almost like they build the Death Star so they don't need that anymore.

Speaker:

Track 1: They don't need ISB. They don't... I mean, I guess they...

Speaker:

Track 3: Oh, no, no, no, no. Absolutely. Because, I mean...

Speaker:

Track 1: Ultimate deterrence. I use that in quotes.

Speaker:

Track 3: I assume that the ISB is absolutely getting a... Oh, shit. That's later.

Speaker:

Track 3: Sorry. Well... It's so hard not to talk.

Speaker:

Track 1: No, I know what you were going to say. And, yeah.

Speaker:

Track 1: Well, so the other two things that I thought were great in this last episode,

Speaker:

Track 1: episode six, is, like, the two different conversations that Luthan has with Andor.

Speaker:

Track 1: Like, the first is when he comes back from Gorman, he's kind of,

Speaker:

Track 1: like, filling him in, being like, these people, like, aren't ready,

Speaker:

Track 1: they're not real rebels,

Speaker:

Track 1: and Luthan basically tells him, like, you know, we need to use them as this

Speaker:

Track 1: symbol to bring more people to our cause.

Speaker:

Track 1: And, you know, it's his line of, like, if it goes up in flames,

Speaker:

Track 1: it will burn very brightly.

Speaker:

Track 1: Like, he's willing to sacrifice Gorman, but not in the way that it plays out

Speaker:

Track 1: that's all i can say about that he's willing he's okay if some of them die in

Speaker:

Track 1: this fight because that's part of it.

Speaker:

Track 3: I mean when we're in in a universe where we're talking like a population on

Speaker:

Track 3: the scale that the star wars universe has,

Speaker:

Track 3: kind of a drop in the bucket you can kind of understand where luthan's coming

Speaker:

Track 3: from there but like a real world perspective here on earth i mean i guess that

Speaker:

Track 3: would be like a what like a squad battalion of people maybe as like a decent

Speaker:

Track 3: comparison i don't but even then it's hard i.

Speaker:

Track 2: Don't see i don't buy that and because in reality nobody i

Speaker:

Track 2: feel like that line on lutheran's part is the

Speaker:

Track 2: single greatest indicator as to why he is not part of the larger scale and like

Speaker:

Track 2: the long-term successful rebellion and resistance is his, his,

Speaker:

Track 2: ideology is not rooted in

Speaker:

Track 2: like it is um you know means to

Speaker:

Track 2: the end like yes luthan is an admirable character

Speaker:

Track 2: in a lot of ways but there are deep flaws to his character and that notion of

Speaker:

Track 2: like you don't that is not that is not the actions of a person looking to liberate

Speaker:

Track 2: that is the person That is the action of somebody looking to create like revolution,

Speaker:

Track 2: but not a longstanding revolution or one that will be successful long term because

Speaker:

Track 2: you're going to have reaction or you're going to have boomerang off that.

Speaker:

Track 3: It is the actions of somebody who doesn't intend to see revolution like come

Speaker:

Track 3: about, like I was saying.

Speaker:

Track 2: But I don't like I called. I don't think it's even it's not even that he doesn't

Speaker:

Track 2: expect to see it himself.

Speaker:

Track 2: that action or I mean unless what you are alluding to is that he doesn't expect

Speaker:

Track 2: to see it himself and be responsible for the further process because like that

Speaker:

Track 2: is guaranteed and he doesn't.

Speaker:

Track 3: Expect to be remembered either like in his fucking incredible monologue.

Speaker:

Track 2: To push that mentality not only you're not expecting to be remembered you're

Speaker:

Track 2: not expecting to be successful dude.

Speaker:

Track 3: He's like I said he's the refined Saw.

Speaker:

Track 2: Gerrera yeah Yeah, no, you're 100% correct. And like, and looking at it that

Speaker:

Track 2: way. And that is the line that gives it away for me.

Speaker:

Track 3: Yeah, it just nails the hammer. And like, I was having that feelings before,

Speaker:

Track 3: like in the first like few episodes, before we even get to these ones of viewing.

Speaker:

Track 3: I was like, oh man, Luton's, Luton's, the saw route, but just better at it.

Speaker:

Track 3: You know what I mean? More purpose, more thought.

Speaker:

Track 3: But at the same time.

Speaker:

Track 1: Let me throw this argument out there.

Speaker:

Track 3: Wants to see the fire burn.

Speaker:

Track 1: The reason why he's more refined and he's able to do things better than Saw

Speaker:

Track 1: Gerrera is one thing. And it's Clea.

Speaker:

Track 3: Exactly.

Speaker:

Track 2: Yeah.

Speaker:

Track 1: If not for Clea. And I called that. Luthor would be the same as Saw Gerrera.

Speaker:

Track 3: I also called that.

Speaker:

Track 2: By the way. That she was in charge, not him.

Speaker:

Track 3: That she was in charge. Yeah, I called that.

Speaker:

Track 2: And that is made very clear in these episodes when she's like,

Speaker:

Track 2: this is what we're fucking doing.

Speaker:

Track 2: This needs to come out and we're doing it and you're going to be there.

Speaker:

Track 3: Yeah, get your fucking shit together. You agreed to this. What the fuck are you freaking out about?

Speaker:

Track 1: Get your ass up and work.

Speaker:

Track 3: Do you see me freaking out? I am freaking out, but do you see me freaking out?

Speaker:

Track 2: Yeah, she lays the fucking, she lays it down. She draws the line.

Speaker:

Track 3: Oh, she's so incredible.

Speaker:

Track 1: I also love that party scene where, which is happening simultaneously as the

Speaker:

Track 1: heist on Gorman with like also Krennic being there and like this political conversation

Speaker:

Track 1: he's having with like Von Mothma over, you know,

Speaker:

Track 1: terrorist or freedom fighter kind of shit, which is the kind of shit that like

Speaker:

Track 1: you would, that Krennic would do.

Speaker:

Track 1: I don't know. I just, it's like an interesting perspective.

Speaker:

Track 2: He's an incredible actor.

Speaker:

Track 1: It's like, what's that?

Speaker:

Track 2: He's an incredible actor.

Speaker:

Track 1: Oh, he's a credible actor.

Speaker:

Track 3: But I will say, I love that scene where Krennic is at the party because it's

Speaker:

Track 3: like the first glimpse you really get of Krennic not dealing with people higher ranking than him.

Speaker:

Track 3: And so we saw the meeting before, but that was super professional of him because

Speaker:

Track 3: it's a very important meeting.

Speaker:

Track 3: You know, oncey conference type shit.

Speaker:

Track 3: But this is a party and we get to see how absolutely fucking irritating and

Speaker:

Track 3: fucking annoying and miserable Krennic is to fucking be around.

Speaker:

Track 2: He's like a cat playing with his shit.

Speaker:

Track 3: Which is great. It helps explain why like Moff Tarkin and Vader don't fucking

Speaker:

Track 3: put up with a fucking second of his bullshit.

Speaker:

Track 3: Like it really helps build that like develop the character and make it feel more.

Speaker:

Track 2: I love that aspect.

Speaker:

Track 3: Oh absolutely insufferable absolutely.

Speaker:

Track 1: Insufferable just like the way he speaks to like he has this like the ultimate

Speaker:

Track 1: arrogance that you would have with you know at his level of,

Speaker:

Track 1: empire rank you know so it's just

Speaker:

Track 1: I love that scene and then when he

Speaker:

Track 1: finally gets to you know the very last device

Speaker:

Track 1: where Clay had been like removing like she's

Speaker:

Track 1: her hands like dripping with blood trying to get it out and

Speaker:

Track 1: then you know poor Lonnie has to then like jump in

Speaker:

Track 1: and explain this piece and the whole time as I watched the scene the first time

Speaker:

Track 1: I'm thinking is he gonna fuck this up and not be able to remember what he's

Speaker:

Track 1: saying but then I remember that Lonnie's actually like a very very smart person

Speaker:

Track 1: I mean to work not just for the ISP for that long but to also do it as a double

Speaker:

Track 1: agent you have to be a very capable person.

Speaker:

Track 3: You got to understand why he was so nervous in that scene is like i feel like

Speaker:

Track 3: the i personally feel like the undertone of the whole scene was that like if

Speaker:

Track 3: lonnie didn't do what clea was saying she was going to make it seem like lonnie

Speaker:

Track 3: was having an affair on his wife with her.

Speaker:

Track 1: Oh it just that's.

Speaker:

Track 3: Part yeah and that on top of their other rebellion connections like just so

Speaker:

Track 3: many layers of implications like lonnie's scared shitless.

Speaker:

Track 3: Krennic is fucking there. His bosses are fucking there.

Speaker:

Track 3: And now he's got Clea and Luthan in the same fucking room as him with Mon Mothma and...

Speaker:

Track 3: It's just fucking late. I mean, granted he doesn't know about Mahan probably,

Speaker:

Track 3: but like with the implications with Clea and Luthan standing right next to him

Speaker:

Track 3: for a while, like he's fucking shaken to the core.

Speaker:

Track 1: I don't think that, uh, that, um, Lonnie knows about anyone except for Clay and Luthan.

Speaker:

Track 1: I don't like they, they give him as their, the information is going one direction.

Speaker:

Track 3: Well, he's got his bosses there too.

Speaker:

Track 1: Yeah.

Speaker:

Track 3: That's so like, he's got, he's literally got his bosses and fucking Krennic

Speaker:

Track 3: of all fucking people staring at him while he's dealing with his underworld

Speaker:

Track 3: rebellion and he's drunk,

Speaker:

Track 3: yeah he's been drinking I love that little fucking,

Speaker:

Track 3: imperial officer one of the officers with Krennic who obviously doesn't get

Speaker:

Track 3: out much he's like oh we're drinking these cocktails they're so good that.

Speaker:

Track 2: Was a great.

Speaker:

Track 3: It was just such a good add in it just built.

Speaker:

Track 1: You're like what are you guys doing here like what the fuck why aren't you in that little.

Speaker:

Track 3: ISP conference room who.

Speaker:

Track 1: Said you could go out like you get the sense too that those guys work like 80 hour weeks.

Speaker:

Track 3: Oh they would definitely work a lot like we can see they definitely get some

Speaker:

Track 3: home time I mean Lonnie's able to go meet Luthan he's got a wife and kid Dedra

Speaker:

Track 3: fucking has a fucking relationship for fuck's sake,

Speaker:

Track 3: but like they definitely work a lot for sure i mean emergency meetings and shit this.

Speaker:

Track 1: Is a completely unrelated thought but i noted that when when um when cyril goes

Speaker:

Track 1: back to deidre's apartment for like that one hour where she's like turn out the lights the.

Speaker:

Track 3: One hour well.

Speaker:

Track 1: Isn't that how long he has when he's there is it an hour.

Speaker:

Track 3: Yeah but like that was like his response saying one hour yeah well no but i was like her apartment.

Speaker:

Track 1: Seems like I don't think I got that much in me empty like his apartment seems

Speaker:

Track 1: her apartment just seems like enormous but all the rooms seem empty and I'm

Speaker:

Track 1: just like and it's just struck.

Speaker:

Track 3: Me as like the emptiness.

Speaker:

Track 1: Of the empire they don't they have stuff but they also have nothing.

Speaker:

Track 3: But also remember she is imperial to her core she was raised in the imperial

Speaker:

Track 3: kinder blocks fully believes this shit to the day she dies even in,

Speaker:

Track 3: but like so of course like she doesn't have any attachments to anything aesthetic

Speaker:

Track 3: or anything like nifty like everything is purposeful like if it doesn't have

Speaker:

Track 3: a purpose why the fuck would i have it.

Speaker:

Track 2: I think cyril permanent gorman is way nicer.

Speaker:

Track 3: Oh his apart his soul his bachelor pad is solid compared to detritus even with his.

Speaker:

Track 2: Like six gorelectopath statues.

Speaker:

Track 3: Okay all right i got a question what is the fucking economy of like the dude

Speaker:

Track 3: selling galactopods in the town square plaza like i saw tourists it's like gotta

Speaker:

Track 3: be just tourists right who.

Speaker:

Track 2: Else is buying.

Speaker:

Track 3: Galactopods but like even then like they can't be killing galactopods because

Speaker:

Track 3: no they're making threads so like they gotta be statues.

Speaker:

Track 2: They're not real.

Speaker:

Track 1: Or see i actually thought they might be like real ones but they're old ones

Speaker:

Track 1: that had died and like were like petrified or i don't know i thought they.

Speaker:

Track 3: I figured that they're like dead Gorlechtopods because they look like they're

Speaker:

Track 3: like strung like the bodies are held together with string.

Speaker:

Track 2: See, I took that as they were like wire frames and they were like wrapped.

Speaker:

Track 1: The only time you actually see one of them is there's like a shot after Andor

Speaker:

Track 1: is there in the little shop and they show the little glass jar with it spinning

Speaker:

Track 1: its webs, which I also thought was like a good.

Speaker:

Track 1: I also just appreciate on a, like, maybe this wasn't intentional,

Speaker:

Track 1: that the economy of this planet is, like, spinning silk.

Speaker:

Track 1: And I think of, like, the idea of, like, spinning propaganda or spinning lies

Speaker:

Track 1: and for spies, all these things. Like, it's a good.

Speaker:

Track 3: I saw it. I saw it as a metaphor of how the Gormans were trapped.

Speaker:

Track 3: Because they had the Gorlechtopod in a glass cage on display.

Speaker:

Track 1: That's fair. Yeah, I could see that.

Speaker:

Track 3: And no attention was paid to it, just like the Gormans were.

Speaker:

Track 1: Yeah, they're just there for the silk, and that's it. The Empire doesn't care

Speaker:

Track 1: about them as long as they get their silk.

Speaker:

Track 2: I mean, it can also mean absolutely nothing.

Speaker:

Track 3: It could be. Who knows?

Speaker:

Track 2: I do like that read, really. I like that read a lot.

Speaker:

Track 1: Tony Gilroy, still, you're welcome to come on and tell us what we got wrong.

Speaker:

Track 2: Let us know.

Speaker:

Track 3: We're going to give you some really good questions and some really good discussion.

Speaker:

Track 3: Like, I know you've had some really great interviews, but you should definitely hop on with us.

Speaker:

Track 1: I mean, your show, like the show isn't doing that well. So like if you come

Speaker:

Track 1: on this show, you might get a little more screams.

Speaker:

Track 3: Yeah, you could definitely get a boost in viewership if you hop on our much

Speaker:

Track 3: larger, prominent, well-known podcast, you know, and or some little Disney Plus

Speaker:

Track 3: series. All right, come on.

Speaker:

Track 2: Our prominent Marxist-Leninist anti-capitalist podcast.

Speaker:

Track 3: Yeah, this unadvertised Marxist podcast that I'm not even an actual host on. I'm just a guest.

Speaker:

Track 2: We have no authority. As I frequently say, I have no authority here.

Speaker:

Track 1: Is there is there anything from that last one that i missed the only thing i

Speaker:

Track 1: was was thinking of i mean we do see the the i think i already mentioned is like the heist,

Speaker:

Track 1: and the uh the one the one line i did write down when they're like describing

Speaker:

Track 1: like to the gormans how to do it and she wrote she says you know prep is useless

Speaker:

Track 1: if you can't follow orders and of course as you're watching you're the first

Speaker:

Track 1: time i'm thinking something is going to go wrong obviously like oh.

Speaker:

Track 3: For sure i would say like for me with

Speaker:

Track 3: the gorman heist that is all of the

Speaker:

Track 3: lessons of hierarchy and leadership and the importance

Speaker:

Track 3: therein that the maya pay brigade was absolutely falling flat on teaching and

Speaker:

Track 3: i doubled down on the fact that yeah the maya pay brigade arc sucked i like

Speaker:

Track 3: the monsters on yavin 4 big fan um like prototype of uh thai adventure,

Speaker:

Track 3: if that's what it's called this was a like that too perfect.

Speaker:

Track 2: Opportunity a perfect opportunity for cast to be like hey remember those guys

Speaker:

Track 2: who sucked because then these people are the same,

Speaker:

Track 2: perfect opportunity to tie that up into a bundle no listen Mr.

Speaker:

Track 2: Gilroy I'm not I'm not trying to be rude since you're listening I'm not trying

Speaker:

Track 2: to I'm just saying you know that was a missed opportunity and I you know,

Speaker:

Track 2: I know you're better than that.

Speaker:

Track 3: No, like we got the death of like the consequences of not following leadership

Speaker:

Track 3: and understanding hierarchy were actual consequences for the viewer.

Speaker:

Track 3: We lost a character we have attachment to.

Speaker:

Track 3: We know and understand versus what the two random dudes in charge of the Maya

Speaker:

Track 3: pay brigade that got eaten.

Speaker:

Track 3: Like who gives a fuck about them?

Speaker:

Track 3: Now, like Cinta is important. Like we know Cinta. And then Vel grills that fucking time.

Speaker:

Track 1: Oh, that scene is great. Don't you fucking cry.

Speaker:

Track 3: And reinforces the lessons.

Speaker:

Track 3: Just reinforces it. And it's so much better done than whatever the fucking Maya

Speaker:

Track 3: Pay Brigade shit was attempting.

Speaker:

Track 2: I don't need to remind you because you will never forget.

Speaker:

Track 1: Yeah, that's.

Speaker:

Track 2: Now, I read an interesting take online. And, you know, the internet is a dangerous

Speaker:

Track 2: place filled with CIA agents and bots and lies.

Speaker:

Track 2: Um, but I did think this was interesting, um, that, that the guy whose name

Speaker:

Track 2: I do not remember that predicated that the death of Sinta, the big guy,

Speaker:

Track 2: the rowdy guy, that he was actually like a plant and like constantly,

Speaker:

Track 2: like he was a person, like basically working for the ISB.

Speaker:

Track 2: pushing things to get more violent so that it would erupt.

Speaker:

Track 1: The guy who's arguing with the kid when they're before the heist?

Speaker:

Track 2: Yeah.

Speaker:

Track 1: I can see it. Because he comes back later.

Speaker:

Track 2: Yes.

Speaker:

Track 3: We'll have to revisit that one.

Speaker:

Track 1: I could see that because he shows up at the perfect moment.

Speaker:

Track 1: Granted, what he was doing, even if he didn't pull out his blaster and shoot

Speaker:

Track 1: him, they still would have completed their mission, their goal, right? So, I don't know.

Speaker:

Track 2: Interesting. It's possible. Interesting take.

Speaker:

Track 3: I mean, we don't get the five seasons, so we don't really know, do we?

Speaker:

Track 2: No.

Speaker:

Track 3: I mean, speak it. Oh, I was going to tangent real quick off of this. So, if you want to go.

Speaker:

Track 2: I was gonna go back to me also so this is off this go for it.

Speaker:

Track 3: Oh i was gonna change it completely off of something onto something we haven't talked about so you go.

Speaker:

Track 2: I was i was gonna you know refer back to like the whole like krennic

Speaker:

Track 2: thing and like that in the party and like how like evan pointed out you know

Speaker:

Track 2: like the lies told that the just people are the global south are the same they're

Speaker:

Track 2: barbaric which then justifies mass murdering imperialism and in this it's like

Speaker:

Track 2: we should it's shown very clearly that the because these lies as mon moth is

Speaker:

Track 2: talking like it's very true.

Speaker:

Track 2: Like the Gorman aren't doing anything of note. They've done fucking nothing.

Speaker:

Track 2: And yet the Empire is out here like, you know, spreading information like there's

Speaker:

Track 2: some kind of like, you know,

Speaker:

Track 2: nefarious group you know, plotting the destruction and they're like randomly

Speaker:

Track 2: like, you know, doing shit. It's like they've done nothing.

Speaker:

Track 2: They've achieved nothing at all.

Speaker:

Track 2: They've literally had a meeting in which they all yelled at each other.

Speaker:

Track 2: That's it. And yet they're pushing, the empire is pushing an entire narrative

Speaker:

Track 2: about them being dangerous subversives.

Speaker:

Track 2: And it is such a perfect example of how easy it is for a state in control of

Speaker:

Track 2: media to feed people information.

Speaker:

Track 2: It just lies. And they just take it.

Speaker:

Track 2: and go with it.

Speaker:

Track 1: What were you.

Speaker:

Track 3: Gonna say no i was just gonna say like you

Speaker:

Track 3: know because we didn't get the five seasons we won't really know if he was an

Speaker:

Track 3: isb like co-intel plant but also in the same vein we i feel like we got robbed

Speaker:

Track 3: of the gilman fucking joining saw guerrero's band arc as well.

Speaker:

Track 3: Not getting five seasons, you know? You get, like, a whole, like,

Speaker:

Track 3: initiation scene with Gilman and fucking Saw Gerrera inhaling the ride-o,

Speaker:

Track 3: and you get that fucking Saw Gerrera speech.

Speaker:

Track 3: And, like, honestly, shit gets me fucking hyped. Not gonna lie.

Speaker:

Track 3: Like, not even a big Saw fan, but, like, that speech and it's like,

Speaker:

Track 3: you're not, where are you?

Speaker:

Track 3: You're here, and you want to fight! Like, dude.

Speaker:

Track 3: Yeah. Gets me fucking going, man. it's like i feel like that was like a whole

Speaker:

Track 3: start of like a whole arc for him like that we just didn't get because we didn't

Speaker:

Track 3: get five seasons yeah that didn't feel.

Speaker:

Track 2: Like it felt like the beginning of something that wasn't you know moved on with

Speaker:

Track 2: it felt very uh kind of like offhand.

Speaker:

Track 3: But god was he good yeah the sauce crew looking all badass up on that ridge

Speaker:

Track 3: so badass so fucking sick dude that.

Speaker:

Track 2: One alien species with the thing with the thing and they.

Speaker:

Track 3: Always have the mascot.

Speaker:

Track 2: No the other.

Speaker:

Track 3: Oh the oh the tubes they're so badass they're so badass I love how Luthing called

Speaker:

Track 3: them tubes in season one tubes tubes is my man he tells me everything,

Speaker:

Track 3: oh

Speaker:

Track 1: See i i bet luther would be a fun guy to just like go out drinking with oh.

Speaker:

Track 3: For sure like especially like if you're in his group you know what i mean and

Speaker:

Track 3: he could be himself oh absolutely like i'm sure he's probably a blast when he's

Speaker:

Track 3: undercover too like if you're in the hoity-toity type oh yeah you can tell that.

Speaker:

Track 2: Party he's like i was hoping you guys would make an offer on it you know like oh would you.

Speaker:

Track 3: Wear that right i.

Speaker:

Track 2: Was hoping you steve's taking an offer on it.

Speaker:

Track 1: See yeah.

Speaker:

Track 3: Like oh i've been working on keeping secrets like god he's so.

Speaker:

Track 1: Charming i think he became that character so like he had to live it for so long

Speaker:

Track 1: that it's almost sometimes like he,

Speaker:

Track 1: doesn't know how to be like his actual self which is why i think maybe he comes

Speaker:

Track 1: off as so gruff and why clea has to kind of be the leader because he's forced

Speaker:

Track 1: late clay is like in the show like she's in she comes out to show pieces but

Speaker:

Track 1: she's not at the same level of undercover that Luthan is.

Speaker:

Track 2: Yeah, no. Well, she definitely, it is clear based on her conversations with

Speaker:

Track 2: other people, it is clear that she is very well known to that community.

Speaker:

Track 2: And she is definitely someone that, those people talk to her a lot.

Speaker:

Track 2: She is plugged in. She may not be which.

Speaker:

Track 3: We can talk about later.

Speaker:

Track 2: She may not be she may not be the like the face person but she is definitely someone people know.

Speaker:

Track 1: Yes and.

Speaker:

Track 2: Deal with regularly.

Speaker:

Track 1: I mean even in her like nice like when she puts on the nice face to be like

Speaker:

Track 1: a you know a store assistant or whatever she is like she's still like in control

Speaker:

Track 1: like the way that she just like works lani is also just that's her undercover

Speaker:

Track 1: her, you know, her real self, but,

Speaker:

Track 1: No one doesn't. Everyone listens to what she says at all times at every moment.

Speaker:

Track 2: Yeah.

Speaker:

Track 3: Dude, even the customers in the store, like she gets a call and she's like, give me a moment.

Speaker:

Track 3: And it's like, she's just stern enough that it's like she's taking her moment,

Speaker:

Track 3: but also polite, you know, customer service voice.

Speaker:

Track 2: She's an incredible actor.

Speaker:

Track 1: I can't believe it was her first show.

Speaker:

Track 3: And this was like her, yeah, her first major acting role.

Speaker:

Track 1: First of many, I believe.

Speaker:

Track 3: Oh, I hope so.

Speaker:

Track 1: I do hope that she doesn't do other Star Wars shit and she just does other stuff instead.

Speaker:

Track 3: Oh, that'd be so sick.

Speaker:

Track 1: Yeah. We don't need her coming back. No, I mean, I guess she really couldn't

Speaker:

Track 1: be in much other Star Wars because she would be in Rogue One if she was in the

Speaker:

Track 1: show, which she's obviously not. And then she's not in Episode 4, obviously.

Speaker:

Track 1: So anyway, I think we pretty much covered these Episodes 4 through 6.

Speaker:

Track 1: So anyone listening who hasn't rewatched the second half of season two,

Speaker:

Track 1: or if you're already not on your 10th watch, which I mean, I don't know why you wouldn't be,

Speaker:

Track 1: you can do that between the listening of this episode and when we release episode

Speaker:

Track 1: three of season two, which will cover seven,

Speaker:

Track 1: eight, and nine, which are arguably the best three episode groupings of the series.

Speaker:

Track 1: I'll go out on a limb and say I think my memory I mean the last three are also very good but.

Speaker:

Track 2: Yeah I think it's hard to really.

Speaker:

Track 3: They're also great.

Speaker:

Track 2: It's also like the way they're released it's like they all the three groupings

Speaker:

Track 2: it's like they feel it feels like it's all like one episode you.

Speaker:

Track 1: Know yeah like a movie four movies I think that about wraps it up with Bill

Speaker:

Track 1: and Ward your friendly and or team Yeah.

Speaker:

Track 2: That's right. We're a team.

Speaker:

Track 3: I'd say we're experts at this point. Tony Gilroy should really come on and have a discussion with us.

Speaker:

Track 2: Yeah, I think really, Tony. I mean, I listened to your interview where you talked

Speaker:

Track 2: about how you base things on revolutions. We know a thing about revolutions.

Speaker:

Track 1: People forgot that after season one aired, he specifically mentions that,

Speaker:

Track 1: as we talked about in our season one, he knows who Joseph Stalin is. He knows who Lenin is.

Speaker:

Track 2: He studied revolutions. He has explicitly said that Andor was the product of

Speaker:

Track 2: his study of revolutions and what went wrong and what went right in them.

Speaker:

Track 1: So if you're Gilroy's agent or you're like his assistant, because maybe he just

Speaker:

Track 1: hasn't been tied into this show yet, you can contact him.

Speaker:

Track 3: Or his son, if you're his son listening, you know, put us in.

Speaker:

Track 2: Or his daughter. I don't know if he has kids.

Speaker:

Track 1: Just send me an email.

Speaker:

Track 3: He has a son.

Speaker:

Track 1: Just send me an email, leftwitheprojector at gmail.com. You know what to do.

Speaker:

Track 1: And we'll make time for you, Tony.

Speaker:

Track 2: Yeah.

Speaker:

Track 1: I'll always make time for you.

Speaker:

Track 2: You can send me an email too. It's leftwithprojector at gmail.com.

Speaker:

Track 3: And also me at leftwithprojector at gmail.com.

Speaker:

Track 1: So you have that authority apparently, I see, Bill. You have email authority of leftwithprojector.

Speaker:

Track 1: But we will catch you next time, Tony Gilroy, on leftwithprojector.

About the Podcast

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Left of the Projector
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