Episode 190
TV BONUS: Andor - Season 2 - Episodes 1-3
Don't mind us saying 1-6 at the start, we cut us into 1-3.
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Transcript
Track 1: Hello and welcome to Left of the Projector. I am your host, Evan,
Speaker:Track 1: back again with another film discussion from the left.
Speaker:Track 1: This week on the show, we are back again to discuss the best show on television,
Speaker:Track 1: Andor, Season 2, Episodes 1 through 6.
Speaker:Track 1: If you're not watching Andor, pause this episode, go watch all of Season 1 and
Speaker:Track 1: all of the first six episodes of Season 2. and now you're back and you can hear
Speaker:Track 1: Ward and Bill who are my guests again thank you for coming back.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah and thank you for doing what Evan said and watching all of it because we'll
Speaker:Track 2: probably end up slipping up this is supposed to be 1 through 6 but we'll probably
Speaker:Track 2: end up slipping up and putting in something later in here so watch all of it.
Speaker:Track 3: Not too late though because I am not.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah not too late but definitely later than 6 so just give it a good effort.
Speaker:Track 1: We'll try I have all the episodes, you know, the little recaps open just in case.
Speaker:Track 1: But I think, well, I'm trying to think of where I want to.
Speaker:Track 3: Do we have notes for tonight? Do we have notes for tonight, Evan?
Speaker:Track 1: I don't have any notes. The notes are in my brain.
Speaker:Track 3: What?
Speaker:Track 2: We're straight riffing on this one because I ain't got no notes either.
Speaker:Track 1: Well, even for the other.
Speaker:Track 3: I just want to point out, too, for the audience at home, we had an extra week
Speaker:Track 3: on this because I forgot our original. because I was busy doing actual organizing in real life.
Speaker:Track 3: And Ward thought, genuinely, I think Ward thought I died.
Speaker:Track 2: I was worried.
Speaker:Track 3: Because I got a text that said, are you okay?
Speaker:Track 3: And I was confused.
Speaker:Track 1: Well, so just like, so this is one week later. This is episode one happens one
Speaker:Track 1: year later from the previous season. So there is this season for anyone who hasn't watched it.
Speaker:Track 1: Obviously, we're going to say what happens. But this season is 12 episodes that
Speaker:Track 1: take place over four different years.
Speaker:Track 1: So there's time jumps after every single three episodes, which if we were living
Speaker:Track 1: in a real society, all of those one years would be other seasons of this show.
Speaker:Track 1: yeah but we have what we have and i'm happy for.
Speaker:Track 3: Do we really think i guess i mean i don't know like i i get afraid that they
Speaker:Track 3: would just start the longer it's the longer it's out the more other people can
Speaker:Track 3: sink their shitty little talons into it and start shoving crap in you know.
Speaker:Track 1: True it i did
Speaker:Track 1: read something today that i'm i don't have her name up
Speaker:Track 1: right now she's one of the executives that i guess greenlit this
Speaker:Track 1: show at disney she apparently would like fight for anything that gilroy would
Speaker:Track 1: want to do he's like i want there to be people dying this way like fine we'll
Speaker:Track 1: do it and they just like let him do whatever he wanted and god bless her i will
Speaker:Track 1: remember her name at some point maybe for this next episode i'll learn it.
Speaker:Track 2: And then remember it.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah god God bless this.
Speaker:Track 1: Nameless executive.
Speaker:Track 2: She is a woman of note that we will note down later.
Speaker:Track 3: Yes.
Speaker:Track 1: We, I think at the end of the last season or well, last episode of season one,
Speaker:Track 1: we kind of were like giving some of, I don't know, predictions or things that happened.
Speaker:Track 1: This happens a year later. Like, do you think that it out of the gate,
Speaker:Track 1: like doesn't miss a beat?
Speaker:Track 1: Because the correct answer is yes. It does not skip a beat.
Speaker:Track 3: Do we need to be here? you just literally like and uh welcome and.
Speaker:Track 2: Thank you for coming that's.
Speaker:Track 1: That's all i need to start this
Speaker:Track 1: all over i feel like i was just blown everything great no notes nothing.
Speaker:Track 3: You were like ask the question and then we're like you don't have to answer that.
Speaker:Track 2: I mean dude he's the man's right you know when he's right he's right why would we.
Speaker:Track 3: Argue that no no we can elaborate is.
Speaker:Track 2: That what we're supposed to do now.
Speaker:Track 3: I don't think they really i no i don't think i mean episode one really takes
Speaker:Track 3: off i do have criticisms for episode two particularly.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah i will yeah they skip a beat there if you ask me and like.
Speaker:Track 3: And so far we have not seen the thing that I specifically requested from the universe be done,
Speaker:Track 3: which was, well, Mott Wart, what is the thing we both have talked about,
Speaker:Track 3: particularly that annoyed us about episode two?
Speaker:Track 2: It was just the Maya Pay Brigade. You know, it felt like filler.
Speaker:Track 2: It felt like distractionary. I get it that there is arguments and people can
Speaker:Track 2: say that there's lessons to be learned from the Mayapé Brigade about a lack
Speaker:Track 2: of hierarchy and the importance of leadership.
Speaker:Track 2: But I don't really care for that. The only thing I really...
Speaker:Track 3: Because that lesson is never actually expressed.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah. And honestly, the only thing I really took away from the Maia Pei Brigade
Speaker:Track 2: arc is I want to know more about those nocturnal monsters on Yavin 4.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah, that's what I want to know more about, too.
Speaker:Track 2: Please?
Speaker:Track 1: Well for so for people who are listening and just as a reminder the the season starts with andor,
Speaker:Track 1: basically stealing a experimental thai fighter i think it's called a thai avenger
Speaker:Track 1: that's basically to you know and he has someone on the inside that helps him
Speaker:Track 1: get away and it's completely different aircraft than any of the ones he like
Speaker:Track 1: didn't even know how to fly it like that's how crazy it was And it's pretty cool looking.
Speaker:Track 1: They actually built the full size inside and outsides of this.
Speaker:Track 1: Usually they just kind of build part of it. They're like, fuck it.
Speaker:Track 1: It's Disney. We'll just send them a bill. And they just built the entire TIE Avenger fighter.
Speaker:Track 1: But so he leaves and he gets onto this planet and there's this group.
Speaker:Track 2: Yavin 4.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah, Yavin 4, which is important for anyone who knows the.
Speaker:Track 2: At this point in time, no.
Speaker:Track 1: No, I guess it's not important.
Speaker:Track 2: It's just interesting. It's just interesting.
Speaker:Track 1: It's of note. And so there's this sort of infighting that's happening on this
Speaker:Track 1: planet where Andor sort of crashes and they kind of take him hostage, I guess you could say.
Speaker:Track 1: And I don't feel like that was, as you said, it wasn't really necessary other
Speaker:Track 1: than just, it seemed like from the beginning season to episode one to season
Speaker:Track 1: 12, which episode 12, which I will not say what happens,
Speaker:Track 1: like the organizational structure changes drastically.
Speaker:Track 1: And I think maybe that's the only point they were trying to make.
Speaker:Track 1: It's like disorganized and then becomes organized.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah. But like, like we never actually like see that discussion.
Speaker:Track 3: Like he lives through that entire thing. And then we never, he never,
Speaker:Track 3: you know, we never have him express, make an express statement.
Speaker:Track 3: I was like, you know, you guys need to like actually have like,
Speaker:Track 3: like fucking hierarchy and like, just like,
Speaker:Track 3: any leadership, just leadership. Could you have leadership? That'd be great.
Speaker:Track 3: Like he never expresses that, like that.
Speaker:Track 3: I understand that like, this is a lesson that we as viewers are supposed to
Speaker:Track 3: take from that point contextually within the show, it would have been well served to make that point.
Speaker:Track 3: And all of this is to say that is literally my only criticism of the show.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah. I mean, among those, because it's, again, like each three episodes is,
Speaker:Track 1: takes place and then is a year jump.
Speaker:Track 1: That first set of three is like the weakest three.
Speaker:Track 1: And I say weakest in like massive quotes because it wasn't really weak.
Speaker:Track 1: It just had the only plot line that kind of didn't necessarily need to be there.
Speaker:Track 1: But it doesn't stay on that planet for that long.
Speaker:Track 1: Like you're going back and forth now. You see, you know, we go back to Shangri-La
Speaker:Track 1: where Senator Mon Mothma's daughter is going to be married. I guess, is that the first reset?
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah. Sorry, folks at home. We have finished the season recently.
Speaker:Track 2: So it's a bit hard for us to recall.
Speaker:Track 1: It is different than doing the first season, which we had like ended.
Speaker:Track 1: you could like go back and watch a few of them and then not have to like have
Speaker:Track 1: it very fresh in your brain but like.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah i love the i love the wedding on shandrilla
Speaker:Track 2: you know you had uh lita right that's mon's daughter's name lita she was yeah
Speaker:Track 2: fucking just rebellious against mom you know and mon having that like moment
Speaker:Track 2: of like just honesty and real truth with her daughter where it's like, you know,
Speaker:Track 2: Ma knows that she's not the fucking best mom.
Speaker:Track 2: You know, she's been sacrificing that for politics and the rebellion.
Speaker:Track 2: But like she at least has a moment of clarity where she's like,
Speaker:Track 2: fuck, I got to be at least honest with my daughter once.
Speaker:Track 2: And at least I can give her the out that my mom never gave me.
Speaker:Track 2: And later just spits in her fucking face. And it's like, oh, I wish you were drunk.
Speaker:Track 2: And I like mine's little reaction right there. It was fucking great.
Speaker:Track 2: It was like, oh, you want to choose this like traditional conservative lifestyle?
Speaker:Track 2: Cool. Then you fucking wait and you stand behind me because I go first.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah. brutal scene yeah absolutely brutal.
Speaker:Track 2: Scene loved it.
Speaker:Track 3: And it's like and i and honestly
Speaker:Track 3: like what i think like i think
Speaker:Track 3: a lot of people especially i'm gonna
Speaker:Track 3: take some shots at a online leftists right now i think what a lot of people
Speaker:Track 3: that talk about organizing and talk about being an activist and talk about all
Speaker:Track 3: this more than actually doing it and participating in it,
Speaker:Track 3: what you, what they don't realize or what they forget.
Speaker:Track 3: And I'm so like, I'm sorry, real life, like your life still goes on.
Speaker:Track 3: You still do other things and those things are still relevant to your life just
Speaker:Track 3: because Because you marched or got arrested or, you know,
Speaker:Track 3: you had, you know, like you dealt with it, like you still then go home and then, I mean,
Speaker:Track 3: hopefully go home and then have to deal with your kid being a shit or your wife
Speaker:Track 3: having a problem at work or your, you know, your husband getting laid off or sick.
Speaker:Track 3: It doesn't stop.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah. Which is like a beautiful transition because then we have takeoma.
Speaker:Track 2: Sorry, rebels. My wife does stop, you know?
Speaker:Track 2: And, you know, he realizes, you know, I wasn't that deeply committed once it
Speaker:Track 2: started affecting my pockets.
Speaker:Track 3: And he like, and at that point you realize, you know, it's like,
Speaker:Track 3: if you're not committed,
Speaker:Track 3: there are ways that like you become a liar, you can become a liability,
Speaker:Track 3: but also like, you have to understand those things
Speaker:Track 3: you have to understand that both those things they exist simultaneously you
Speaker:Track 3: need to handle both of them if you if you are committed to it and
Speaker:Track 3: you know they're in a very different situation than we are materially here in
Speaker:Track 3: reality for many of us and you know that results in his untimely demise expedited divorce.
Speaker:Track 1: That's true he was going through a divorce or he was separated or something got.
Speaker:Track 2: Really easy on his wife really quick.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah really easy she didn't have to go to any i need you didn't.
Speaker:Track 1: Need a uh a lawyer or whatever.
Speaker:Track 3: No i mean she she a lawyer i'm assuming a state like you know they settle or
Speaker:Track 3: something something i got i don't know i've ever did.
Speaker:Track 2: The amount of bureaucracy in the empire come on yeah.
Speaker:Track 3: And that line from luthan when mom's like what happened mm-hmm,
Speaker:Track 3: Do either one you remember exactly how it went?
Speaker:Track 1: I don't have the exact line, but...
Speaker:Track 2: He can plug it in in post.
Speaker:Track 1: You need to be protected.
Speaker:Track 1: I'm not sure what you're saying. How nice for you.
Speaker:Track 1: What I found interesting in this first six episodes of Mon Mothma is I think
Speaker:Track 1: she finally saw more deeply how deep she was in it.
Speaker:Track 1: like i don't think in the in the first season she was like getting
Speaker:Track 1: the money and like some things were happening and it
Speaker:Track 1: caused some problems kind of for her but it
Speaker:Track 1: didn't really affect her life i mean i guess she did need to get the
Speaker:Track 1: the money funneled you know through some other ways or she had to essentially
Speaker:Track 1: have her daughter get married because i guess these are major problems but not
Speaker:Track 1: to her personally and then in the second season she realizes something could
Speaker:Track 1: actually affect her personally and i think it's kind of a shock to her yeah.
Speaker:Track 2: Definitely she has like she understands what
Speaker:Track 2: she's doing and the dangers involved you know she's having
Speaker:Track 2: to funnel money she's got this fake uh fun like
Speaker:Track 2: a charity organization that she's funneling money
Speaker:Track 2: through she had to fucking sell her daughter and a fucking wedding for it like
Speaker:Track 2: she understands but at the same time she's never experienced the violence and
Speaker:Track 2: the necessity of what has to come with the rebellion and revolution that close to her before.
Speaker:Track 1: Right she's.
Speaker:Track 2: Always had insulating layers between her and everything.
Speaker:Track 1: Right yeah that's that that's the point i was thinking in.
Speaker:Track 2: The next episode we do yeah you should watch all of this all of andor season two,
Speaker:Track 2: And you really get what I'm talking about.
Speaker:Track 1: Well, and then, so the other side, so there's the other part we didn't maybe
Speaker:Track 1: talk about that we can talk about in those first three episodes is where Bix is sort of on this.
Speaker:Track 1: And this is actually a point I wanted to make about just this show in general,
Speaker:Track 1: like the dialogue online, which unfortunately creeps its way into this kind
Speaker:Track 1: of these shows is that you have.
Speaker:Track 2: Hey, we don't have to talk about it, but we can.
Speaker:Track 1: We don't have to, but I was going to say is that.
Speaker:Track 2: We could be better.
Speaker:Track 1: Ix is on sort of this, I guess you could call it like a harvesting planet.
Speaker:Track 1: I think the episode's called Harvest in the third episode.
Speaker:Track 1: It's not a planet where they're essentially getting grain for the Empire, for whoever else.
Speaker:Track 1: But they very explicitly make it be that many of the people are undocumented workers.
Speaker:Track 1: And so I saw a lot of people online being like, this is just like the United
Speaker:Track 1: States and Mexico and blah, blah, blah.
Speaker:Track 1: I'm like, not, I mean, yes, it is, but it's also not.
Speaker:Track 1: It's also just about the concept of labor in general and how labor is abused
Speaker:Track 1: by colonial empires across the globe, whether it's in Mexico,
Speaker:Track 1: the United States, it's in South America, it doesn't matter.
Speaker:Track 1: And they suffer at the violence of the colonizers with, even though they need
Speaker:Track 1: their labor to the colonizer.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah no not everything has to be a one-to-one representation from
Speaker:Track 2: fiction you know we can have like an entire
Speaker:Track 2: planet that's devoted to just growing grain for the empire and understand oh
Speaker:Track 2: that's exploitation and colonialism we don't need to have to go any further
Speaker:Track 2: than than that and be like oh it's mexico it's america it's this that the other
Speaker:Track 2: no dude like they're already giving it to you,
Speaker:Track 2: Move on.
Speaker:Track 3: It is one-to-one. It's about exploitation. That's the one-to-one.
Speaker:Track 3: It's labor exploitation.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah, that's the one-to-one. It's not, yeah, it doesn't have to,
Speaker:Track 2: it's not about a specific place.
Speaker:Track 3: The flaw is not, the flaw of these interpretations is not the fact that they're
Speaker:Track 3: like, oh, it's a one-to-one thing.
Speaker:Track 3: It's the need to bring it back to America. It's the need to bring it back to
Speaker:Track 3: their personal material circumstances, as opposed to understanding this is a universal concept.
Speaker:Track 3: That's the one-to-one. Not that this is about America, that this is about labor and exploitation.
Speaker:Track 2: But Bill, I'm American, so everything's got to be wrong.
Speaker:Track 1: I was about to say.
Speaker:Track 2: I got to make it about.
Speaker:Track 1: American exceptionalism.
Speaker:Track 2: And that's how I have to pretend.
Speaker:Track 3: It's exhausting.
Speaker:Track 2: And if it's not about me, then why am I supposed to care?
Speaker:Track 3: That's, see, that's actually the lesson.
Speaker:Track 1: What's, you know.
Speaker:Track 3: You're supposed to figure that out, dum-dums.
Speaker:Track 1: So imagine, imagine this scenario. Imagine that this show was made,
Speaker:Track 1: you know, the same kind of plot.
Speaker:Track 1: It doesn't have to be Star Wars. It was made in a foreign country and Americans watched it.
Speaker:Track 1: I don't think they would then say, oh, it's America. But if China made this
Speaker:Track 1: about exploitation and, you know, colonialism, I don't think America would have
Speaker:Track 1: that same reaction, right?
Speaker:Track 1: Is it because it's Star Wars? It's America? It's us? Everything has to be.
Speaker:Track 1: What does that mean? Like, is this fucking play about us?
Speaker:Track 2: If it came from any other country, it would be like the same shit with Squid
Speaker:Track 2: Games and other shit where it's like, you know, you'd have all the articles,
Speaker:Track 2: you know, actually that it's, uh, this is a commentary on communism.
Speaker:Track 1: Right.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah, because that's literally what happens every time. If it comes from something, yeah, it's 100%.
Speaker:Track 3: We don't need to speculate on that because we've watched it happen.
Speaker:Track 2: So many times.
Speaker:Track 3: I've watched both seasons of Squid Games, and I have my criticisms of season
Speaker:Track 3: two, but I enjoyed season one. And it shocked me.
Speaker:Track 3: It shocked me how anybody could watch that And then come on and be like,
Speaker:Track 3: actually, this is about comedy, this is about comedy, this is bad.
Speaker:Track 1: So we've talked, I guess, about the kind of like the leftist infighting and
Speaker:Track 1: the rebels and the kind of the wealthy and Mon Moth.
Speaker:Track 1: But the thing we didn't talk about is the ISB and sort of like the plot line
Speaker:Track 1: that we find out immediately,
Speaker:Track 1: which is probably the most accurate depiction of what actually would happen
Speaker:Track 1: in like a fascist regime to like plan some like evil thing.
Speaker:Track 1: I mean, maybe it wouldn't play out exactly like this, but go ahead, Bill.
Speaker:Track 3: Can we put a pin on that? Because I do think that there's, I think there's a
Speaker:Track 3: lot more to talk about regarding that planet and the labor.
Speaker:Track 1: Oh, you mean the, what's the planet called? Fuck. Mineral.
Speaker:Track 3: Wheat planet. Who cares? It doesn't matter. It's not relevant.
Speaker:Track 2: Mineral.
Speaker:Track 3: Sure. Farm planet.
Speaker:Track 2: Wheat planet. Yeah.
Speaker:Track 3: Farm planet.
Speaker:Track 1: No, we can still talk about the farm planet.
Speaker:Track 2: Worldwide Kansas.
Speaker:Track 3: Who like this is which
Speaker:Track 3: is an interesting thing
Speaker:Track 3: because while the fact that
Speaker:Track 3: it is very much posited as a planet that is a
Speaker:Track 3: like a green planet a farm planet
Speaker:Track 3: is an interesting thing because yes
Speaker:Track 3: star wars in general does a thing where like planets are
Speaker:Track 3: like singular biomes or whatever right like it's
Speaker:Track 3: that's the swamp planet you know that's the whatever planet
Speaker:Track 3: it's the desert planet right but the the
Speaker:Track 3: fact that it's like you know oh this is like spider the like
Speaker:Track 3: yeah spider planet um the fact
Speaker:Track 3: that like that play like it it really as a
Speaker:Track 3: person that's played warhammer 40k and read
Speaker:Track 3: a lot of like 40k lore um it really brings back
Speaker:Track 3: like 40k and how like it is very
Speaker:Track 3: explicitly 40k is very explicitly it's like they make planets to do whole farms
Speaker:Track 3: because 40k is explicitly a fascist Like the Imperium of Man is explicitly a
Speaker:Track 3: fascist faction of fascist people oppressing their, their citizens. And, um.
Speaker:Track 3: There's a difference between a swamp planet and a desert planet and a, that's a farm planet.
Speaker:Track 3: Because a swamp planet is a swamp planet because it's a swamp planet.
Speaker:Track 3: A farm planet is a farm planet because someone looked at a planet and said,
Speaker:Track 3: we're going to put all farms there and then put people there and then they work
Speaker:Track 3: those farms. That's their fucking job.
Speaker:Track 3: It didn't spawn from the universe as a farm planet.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah, there wasn't just rows of corn growing one day.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah, this is peak empire hyper exploitation.
Speaker:Track 3: Somebody made that choice to do that and then have people there who are undocumented
Speaker:Track 3: because it is still cheaper.
Speaker:Track 3: And then when the empire comes, when the law comes, it starts rounding up people.
Speaker:Track 3: Who gets punished? Is it the guy running the farm?
Speaker:Track 3: No, it's the worker. They didn't shoot, you know, they didn't shoot the farmer.
Speaker:Track 3: They didn't drag him away. I mean, you know, the guy who owned the farm,
Speaker:Track 3: they didn't drag him away. No. They said, where's your undocumented workers?
Speaker:Track 1: Give us them. And you also see that initially they're on your side.
Speaker:Track 1: Like, oh, I'm going to defend you because I need this labor.
Speaker:Track 1: And then they realize it's actually better for them to just turn you in because they'd rather live.
Speaker:Track 1: They'll just find a different undocumented.
Speaker:Track 3: Just find out one.
Speaker:Track 1: I was thinking about, you were talking about how they turned this planet into
Speaker:Track 1: this because they noticed the climate is hospitable to grain, right?
Speaker:Track 1: But this predates the modern, well, this current iteration of the empire.
Speaker:Track 1: So it would have actually been the regular Galactic Republic who did that?
Speaker:Track 3: Well, I mean, the regular Galactic Republic. I mean, what is the difference
Speaker:Track 3: between- The one that has slavery?
Speaker:Track 1: That's what I was going to say.
Speaker:Track 3: The one that has slavery? Yeah.
Speaker:Track 2: That checks, yeah.
Speaker:Track 3: What's the difference between a neoliberal democracy and a fascist state?
Speaker:Track 1: What is the difference? That's our one doesn't.
Speaker:Track 3: Like, the difference between those two things are very minor.
Speaker:Track 3: And that is something that, like, people in real life really need to come to terms with.
Speaker:Track 3: Like, this is an argument that we have had so many times. is america ward evan
Speaker:Track 3: is america fascist yes yes when did america become fascist.
Speaker:Track 1: The day it started always.
Speaker:Track 3: Right how many people we talk how many people if you walked out if i walked
Speaker:Track 3: upstairs right now and i turned to my father-in-law and i said hey joe is american
Speaker:Track 3: fascist you might like wiffle on it right now be like well you know trump is
Speaker:Track 3: you know now i'm like but was it fascist 10 years ago?
Speaker:Track 3: Was it fascist in the 60s? Was it fascist in the 50s? No.
Speaker:Track 3: Oh, it wasn't. It wasn't fascist when black people couldn't vote,
Speaker:Track 3: when women couldn't vote, when we were committing genocide against Americans.
Speaker:Track 3: Oh, it wasn't fascist then.
Speaker:Track 3: Like, fascism doesn't start because white people are affected.
Speaker:Track 3: That's the way fascism works.
Speaker:Track 3: But Americans really seem to think that's the way it works.
Speaker:Track 3: Oh, absolutely. Are white people affected? Oh, no, it's fascists.
Speaker:Track 3: It's not the way they work.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah, because they'll be like, dude, we fought the Nazis. We beat the Nazis.
Speaker:Track 2: And it's like, dude, our soldiers started fights in bars because they let black
Speaker:Track 2: people drink in them. What are you fucking talking about?
Speaker:Track 2: That's what we were doing in World War II. We didn't beat the Nazis.
Speaker:Track 3: We brought them home.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah, en masse. And then we gave them high-ranking positions in NATO, too. Like, come on.
Speaker:Track 1: And TikTok. like the people well i mean like the nato people like working tic tac that was the,
Speaker:Track 1: progression there no i i think that's like it's a very that when i was saying
Speaker:Track 1: that it was the galactic empire before that was literally like going to be the
Speaker:Track 1: next word it's like it's not a different system it's just basically okay it's
Speaker:Track 1: like a sith was in charge okay he's gone you know i don't know i don't really know the what.
Speaker:Track 2: Because they had the nice cops around in the republic.
Speaker:Track 1: They had some Jedis. Ooh.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah.
Speaker:Track 3: Like, the Jedi really are...
Speaker:Track 1: NATO.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah, like... Man, yeah.
Speaker:Track 3: I mean, the Jedi are basically Ukraine. I mean, they literally kidnap children
Speaker:Track 3: and make them into soldiers.
Speaker:Track 1: And then kill them. I mean, one of their own. Episode three, for anyone who's...
Speaker:Track 3: Who would not abide by sexual assault.
Speaker:Track 2: Definitely not. no he would never.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah he's really against that well so
Speaker:Track 1: that's the so for the a slight content
Speaker:Track 1: warning in the third episode of this show of third
Speaker:Track 1: episode is that their bix is a one
Speaker:Track 1: of the empires i don't know what they call them police guard
Speaker:Track 1: like head of the group that goes to this
Speaker:Track 1: planet to arrest migrant workers essentially tries to rape bix and she beats
Speaker:Track 1: the shit out of him kills him and it's like the very same moment cassian also
Speaker:Track 1: lands this crazy ship and gets them out of there gets her out of there but unfortunately
Speaker:Track 1: leaves the poor little droid behind wait.
Speaker:Track 3: Poor guy he's left behind i didn't.
Speaker:Track 1: Well no just on the planet like dude.
Speaker:Track 2: In one through six.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah he's still on the planet like they leave the in.
Speaker:Track 2: One through six he's still on the planet that's.
Speaker:Track 1: What we're talking about their other buddy who i can't think of his name at the Oh.
Speaker:Track 3: Yes, you're right. Still makes me sad. I love him.
Speaker:Track 2: I mean, when the shit went down, they didn't really have enough time to grab him, okay?
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah, he isn't the swiftest.
Speaker:Track 2: Did you want to have to listen to him stutter as you have to fucking haul ass off the planet?
Speaker:Track 3: No, it would make you cry.
Speaker:Track 1: Well, so it's funny. His name, they call him B or B2, but his actual initials
Speaker:Track 1: are B2EMO, like he's emo. I don't know.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah.
Speaker:Track 1: It kind of feels good.
Speaker:Track 2: I got your picture. I'm coming with you. Ha ha ha.
Speaker:Track 1: Oh boy well so can we can we talk about the isb now bill and like the the yeah yeah i.
Speaker:Track 2: Think we just talked i was gonna say i i was
Speaker:Track 2: gonna say let me take it um i thought
Speaker:Track 2: like with the whole bix um and the set
Speaker:Track 2: um sexual assault like you know
Speaker:Track 2: i we had our whole discussion like the problem with making fucking
Speaker:Track 2: adult media for star wars fans
Speaker:Track 2: is that adult star wars fans are going to see it and they're basically children
Speaker:Track 2: and they're not going to be able to handle it and they're like we got
Speaker:Track 2: the people saying oh the empire would never allow that
Speaker:Track 2: it's like dude are you fucking kidding me they allow genocide and
Speaker:Track 2: into our next point yeah they fully
Speaker:Track 2: encourage it it's all that's what they're all about they're fascists
Speaker:Track 2: you think they're going to stop at a certain point be like no no that's not
Speaker:Track 2: morally decent they ain't got no lines and into
Speaker:Track 2: our next point that we're going to talk about the um imperial meeting
Speaker:Track 2: discussing um what the empire had
Speaker:Track 2: plans for with gorman i thought it was
Speaker:Track 2: great like you were saying um how like it was such a
Speaker:Track 2: a good depiction of like internal fascist meeting and um i would say like a
Speaker:Track 2: good pairing with that episode would be that 2002 film conspiracy about the
Speaker:Track 2: wansi conference and the nazis and their conference and meeting coming to the
Speaker:Track 2: final solution for Jews.
Speaker:Track 2: It parallels side by side really well. And just them treating it like a business
Speaker:Track 2: meeting, having the person in charge of the meeting have an already pre-projected
Speaker:Track 2: plan and goal. It's just how are we going to get there?
Speaker:Track 2: You have the 1C conference where it's like, well, maybe we can just support them.
Speaker:Track 2: And then you have Andor going, oh, maybe we can manufacture a disease.
Speaker:Track 2: These lesser options. But Krennic is very clear, like, no, no,
Speaker:Track 2: no, no, we will be destroying this planet.
Speaker:Track 2: You need to figure out how we're going to make it happen, which is what is what
Speaker:Track 2: happens in the WAN-C conference with the Nazis.
Speaker:Track 2: It's we will get to this final solution. You're going to tell me how we're doing.
Speaker:Track 1: What's interesting before they get, I mean, and then you could also argue it's
Speaker:Track 1: a very similar final solution, which is literally, well, we can't talk about
Speaker:Track 1: that yet. Scratch that. Can we?
Speaker:Track 2: I mean, it's just, it's disgust. I mean, he's talking about,
Speaker:Track 2: they're going to have to do like gouge mining.
Speaker:Track 1: Right. Okay. Okay.
Speaker:Track 2: They're going to end up destroying the planet of Gorman.
Speaker:Track 1: Yes.
Speaker:Track 3: That's like right off the top.
Speaker:Track 2: We just now need to spin it. All we need to do is how are we spinning it?
Speaker:Track 2: How are we making it happen?
Speaker:Track 1: And what's very interesting is that they also, like the initial thought is like propaganda,
Speaker:Track 1: which is very much what you would see Nazis,
Speaker:Track 1: Americans, Hasbro, all of
Speaker:Track 1: these different things are just different versions of that and so rather
Speaker:Track 1: than just being like okay we'll just use propaganda like we're going to use
Speaker:Track 1: both propaganda and we're going to put essentially give weapons to the rebels
Speaker:Track 1: but like crappy rebels so that they screw it up and that we can use them to
Speaker:Track 1: justify our ends they use they also the the use of the term outside agitator is also,
Speaker:Track 1: so perfectly it's like the ultimate way to just make up a term of people who
Speaker:Track 1: might do stuff and then they can just use whatever force they want because we
Speaker:Track 1: have to save our petty bourgeois French Gormans and their silk trade.
Speaker:Track 3: This is a tactic we have seen. You know, we are, I'm sorry, how many days into
Speaker:Track 3: the genocide of Gaza are we at this point?
Speaker:Track 1: 18 months.
Speaker:Track 2: Too many.
Speaker:Track 1: I don't know, more than that.
Speaker:Track 2: 18 months, yeah. I don't know the exact number of days at this point.
Speaker:Track 3: And so we're 18 months into a genocide of the Palestinian people in Gaza.
Speaker:Track 3: And we, and all we hear about is Hamas, Hamas, Hamas, Hamas, Hamas.
Speaker:Track 3: And if we look historically, and I want to, I want to be, I have the problems of Hamas whatsoever.
Speaker:Track 3: But if we look historically, who funded Hamas?
Speaker:Track 1: Israel.
Speaker:Track 2: Israel did.
Speaker:Track 3: They funded it because it was a politically expedient way to destabilize,
Speaker:Track 3: because they saw it as the group that destabilized the region and they could
Speaker:Track 3: paint them as the bad guys and blah, blah, blah. And it's exactly what they're doing there.
Speaker:Track 3: Except the Gormans are way less competent. yeah oh extremely less competent yeah.
Speaker:Track 2: They didn't have to pull the israeli move of assassinating pflp leaders and then funding hamas.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah you.
Speaker:Track 2: Know they didn't have to take out like the actual badass radical gormans and
Speaker:Track 2: then go okay cool now we can fund these like liberal type.
Speaker:Track 1: I mean that's the thing suit so the planet was
Speaker:Track 1: such a wealthy planet for some obviously not
Speaker:Track 1: all the these elite people who are taking up
Speaker:Track 1: arms which is also interesting that they kind of use them as it i think it's
Speaker:Track 1: a good symbol too of maybe you could argue that eventually in the rebellion
Speaker:Track 1: everyone was willing to fight against the empire because of it but they use
Speaker:Track 1: the wealthy owners of all of like the basically the means of the owner they're
Speaker:Track 1: capitalists not petty bourgeois these are capitalists right.
Speaker:Track 3: It's hard to say like because we genuinely don't
Speaker:Track 3: know they don't go in depth on
Speaker:Track 3: the economic it's like it is implied by that very fun little uh visitor video
Speaker:Track 3: they show at the beginning of the conference which that was a great video by
Speaker:Track 3: the way that was really cool a lot of fun it really like immersed you like you
Speaker:Track 3: felt like dude in the shots.
Speaker:Track 2: Of krennic shadow like over top.
Speaker:Track 3: And it started and i'm like what is this this is so like it was such a it was
Speaker:Track 3: such a tonal shift Such a huge tonal shift.
Speaker:Track 3: But like, it is almost implied in that thing that basically the spiders just do it anyway.
Speaker:Track 3: It's almost like they're not, like, they don't have, like, it's almost implied
Speaker:Track 3: they don't have labor even completing the process.
Speaker:Track 3: But basically it's the spiders doing it and they're just collecting it.
Speaker:Track 2: Well, they got mills and shit and, like, weaving machines.
Speaker:Track 1: Processing it and they...
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah, there's...
Speaker:Track 1: Who knows?
Speaker:Track 2: Like, they're not... Dude, the spiders aren't making suits and bolts of fabric.
Speaker:Track 3: Okay? But, you know...
Speaker:Track 2: They're not making the fucking yards of linen that Marx would eventually write about, okay?
Speaker:Track 3: But at that point, like, really, when you, like, the suits and everything,
Speaker:Track 3: that isn't a capitalist venture, mostly.
Speaker:Track 3: That's an art... Like, that could be seen as an artisan venture.
Speaker:Track 1: That's true. That's true.
Speaker:Track 3: Which is distinctly different than capitalist, you know, if we go back to- They
Speaker:Track 3: don't really own the means of production.
Speaker:Track 1: They own kind of a portion of it.
Speaker:Track 3: Right.
Speaker:Track 1: Well, not own. I mean, they own a step in the process. They're not the ones
Speaker:Track 1: who control everything.
Speaker:Track 3: Right. Like, it is reasonable to, if we're going to call them like,
Speaker:Track 3: you know, it's like, whatever.
Speaker:Track 3: Wheat planet is farm planet. And Gorman is basically, it's like,
Speaker:Track 3: it's artisan planet. Like, like they're not, you know, like that's,
Speaker:Track 3: it's like heavily implied. I feel like it's heavily implied.
Speaker:Track 3: Like they are not, you know, the real, like they're not the capitalist class.
Speaker:Track 3: It feels like to me, they felt more artisan, which is real.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah. I mean, they, yeah, they have like a lot of political and cultural influence
Speaker:Track 2: just because like they got bomb
Speaker:Track 2: ass clothes because of these special ass spiders, you know what I mean?
Speaker:Track 2: And like, because of the specialized spiders, the people for several hundred
Speaker:Track 2: centuries have gotten a really good at making fucking clothes and fabric.
Speaker:Track 2: And like, yeah, of course, we're just going to get around.
Speaker:Track 2: But at the end of the day, like we got a peek into the economics when we had
Speaker:Track 2: the, um, the business guy being like, uh, saying like, dude,
Speaker:Track 2: we, we import like everything. Yeah.
Speaker:Track 3: Almost everything we.
Speaker:Track 2: Have to import.
Speaker:Track 1: Well you could maybe argue it's like we have to export given that like meeting
Speaker:Track 1: they have you could almost maybe have the argument that it's kind of like a
Speaker:Track 1: trade union like a like i don't know like a artist union of some kind maybe
Speaker:Track 1: officially or unofficially.
Speaker:Track 3: That would be my that would be makes.
Speaker:Track 1: More it makes more sense actually than.
Speaker:Track 2: Being like actual i think yeah but you saying about the imperial meeting again
Speaker:Track 2: that uh that reminds me of a good thing it was like how they do immediately
Speaker:Track 2: they have the business types because it got so many different types of imperialists there they.
Speaker:Track 3: Got isb.
Speaker:Track 2: Isa they got marketing guys.
Speaker:Track 3: They got a bunch of different i believe evan is referring to the meeting with
Speaker:Track 3: the gormans the meeting the gormans had they're like union meeting.
Speaker:Track 1: Yes they were.
Speaker:Track 3: Talking about stuff not well.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah but no but i think but well yes that's what i was referring to bill is
Speaker:Track 1: like the i was just like giving another patent now that i've been convinced
Speaker:Track 1: that they're not really that wealthy like they're wealthy but they're not like you know.
Speaker:Track 3: It's the same kind of thing where we again we
Speaker:Track 3: have these discussions we're understanding understanding labor
Speaker:Track 3: and its relationship to the means of production
Speaker:Track 3: and you know this is the same thing it's
Speaker:Track 3: like a football player is wealthy they
Speaker:Track 3: are not capitalists an actor may
Speaker:Track 3: be wealthy they are not capitalists owning
Speaker:Track 3: wealth having wealth is not what makes somebody a capitalist it is your relationship
Speaker:Track 3: to the means of production and i would argue based on what we see that like
Speaker:Track 3: the gormans technically they're not capitalists they are artisans i.
Speaker:Track 1: Think i i agree with you i think i've been i've been uh convinced of this.
Speaker:Track 3: And in the end you know and i think it is a interesting you know thing to like
Speaker:Track 3: draw light to the fact that like, like, it comes to all of you in the end.
Speaker:Track 3: If you aren't a capitalist, if you are not part of that class,
Speaker:Track 3: it will, you can hold it off.
Speaker:Track 3: If you're, you know, the position of privilege or whatever, right.
Speaker:Track 3: But it's going to come back to you eventually. It's going to come to you.
Speaker:Track 1: But it seems even in the empire, even the ultra wealthy, which you don't really see too often,
Speaker:Track 1: you know, you don't really see, you don't like have a meeting and you have like
Speaker:Track 1: the owner of like, Like the person who owns all the grain on this planet or
Speaker:Track 1: whatever, the grain planet, it seems like anyone is susceptible to the empire.
Speaker:Track 1: I guess my point is like, I don't
Speaker:Track 1: think even the business people like the capitalists even really have.
Speaker:Track 1: I think it's almost like the capitalists are almost sucked into being members
Speaker:Track 1: of the leadership of the empire.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah, it's Nazi people.
Speaker:Track 3: the nazi party that's that's what it is like if you want to maintain that like
Speaker:Track 3: that's how you and it but you fall the fuck you fall in line yeah because it's
Speaker:Track 3: like but also like you fall in line because it doesn't.
Speaker:Track 2: It's good for business.
Speaker:Track 3: It's good yeah it's good for you it's good for business which i mean i don't
Speaker:Track 3: know if we want to like talk about it now about the this constant complaints
Speaker:Track 3: about like they're humanizing the empire.
Speaker:Track 1: Well we can.
Speaker:Track 3: And how well.
Speaker:Track 1: I think we yeah So we didn't talk about Deidre. So part of the ending of this
Speaker:Track 1: meeting, Deidre is kind of like create, she has the idea essentially,
Speaker:Track 1: it's her idea to fund the rebels, like the not so good rebels.
Speaker:Track 1: And that's kind of what we then see. She gets put on the secret assignment for
Speaker:Track 1: the next two, three episodes.
Speaker:Track 1: She has to go to Gorman to start later on to actually being part of this.
Speaker:Track 1: But they send her boyfriend, or I don't know if they're actually married.
Speaker:Track 1: They send Cyril off to be a, you know.
Speaker:Track 2: They're fucking boy toys.
Speaker:Track 1: You have to be a little cog in the Emperor machine. He doesn't really realize what he's doing there.
Speaker:Track 1: He thinks he's kind of just gathering information and learning about the people
Speaker:Track 1: from other planets, the outside agitators.
Speaker:Track 1: And this leads to what you were talking about. Wait. Oh, yes.
Speaker:Track 1: So, like, there's a moment where you have Cyril having dinner with his mom and
Speaker:Track 1: Deidre at their very, very nice place on Coruscant.
Speaker:Track 1: And it's very coded. again the mom is like this overbearing mother and the complaint
Speaker:Track 1: as you said where people were saying like oh they're just they're they're just
Speaker:Track 1: people they're being humanized here this is wrong and i'll let you take it from there.
Speaker:Track 3: Well like that com are.
Speaker:Track 2: Fascist movements made of ghouls and goblins.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah like that's the whole like that's this argument that like they're humanizing
Speaker:Track 3: this Like, that's the point.
Speaker:Track 3: Like, you, people need to come to terms with the fact that fascists are human.
Speaker:Track 3: They are actual humans. They're not demons.
Speaker:Track 3: They're not extraterrestrial beings. They did not come from beyond this,
Speaker:Track 3: you know, beyond the bounds of space and time.
Speaker:Track 3: They are human beings who have been shaped by their material conditions to follow
Speaker:Track 3: certain ways and go in certain ways because it benefits them.
Speaker:Track 3: And this need to like deny their humanity, and this applies to fucking Israel
Speaker:Track 3: in the point of this, this kind of like, well, they're, they're monsters,
Speaker:Track 3: no, they're fucking human beings.
Speaker:Track 3: And what that, what you need to sit with and what you really need to fucking
Speaker:Track 3: internalize and sit with is.
Speaker:Track 3: The fact that you, you could also be like that.
Speaker:Track 3: The fact that you aren't is because you've made either you've made choices or
Speaker:Track 3: because of your conditions or your circumstances.
Speaker:Track 3: And they are human beings. And you need to understand that movements are made
Speaker:Track 3: up of human beings and that it is human potential.
Speaker:Track 1: People don't like the idea that like their neighbor could be a Nazi.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah. Then your neighbor can be a Nazi.
Speaker:Track 2: And so.
Speaker:Track 3: Could fucking you if you were a different person you're not special they're
Speaker:Track 3: not special these are human beings human beings do bad things.
Speaker:Track 2: Hell i love the difference between cyril and
Speaker:Track 2: deidre that we even like we know so
Speaker:Track 2: far within the first half where it's like yeah cyril's
Speaker:Track 2: a mama's boy didn't have her like like doesn't have
Speaker:Track 2: too much control over his life failed aspirations
Speaker:Track 2: he had fucking uh stormtrooper action
Speaker:Track 2: figures from when he was a kid so like he fucking believes in this shit but
Speaker:Track 2: like Deidre was raised in the fucking imperial kinder blocks is imperial to
Speaker:Track 2: the core and like you can just see the differences in their personality like I feel like that's such a,
Speaker:Track 2: good description of people who are full diehard believers and when it's convenient for.
Speaker:Track 1: He made a choice right he made a choice like as like.
Speaker:Track 2: A fanboy.
Speaker:Track 1: Whereas she was raised.
Speaker:Track 2: To be this.
Speaker:Track 3: Person but but more than that like he's not just a fanboy yeah,
Speaker:Track 3: he leaves and like we see this later i'm like i don't want to i'm not gonna like spoil it but.
Speaker:Track 2: God it's so hard not to talk about past.
Speaker:Track 3: Six genuinely he is
Speaker:Track 3: not just a fan boy he believes that he is a good person yeah and that he is
Speaker:Track 3: doing good things for other people he believes he is doing right for other people.
Speaker:Track 3: He believes he's serving a system that is beneficial to people at large. Like, he believes that.
Speaker:Track 3: Like, Deidre, I believe, dehumanizes everybody else because she has been taught that.
Speaker:Track 3: She does not care because she cares about the Empire and its goals.
Speaker:Track 3: She dehumanizes those people.
Speaker:Track 3: Cyril genuinely, I feel like I think it becomes clear as the season goes on.
Speaker:Track 3: Cyril genuinely believes in the supposed beliefs of the empire.
Speaker:Track 3: It's like believing the American way.
Speaker:Track 2: The American dream. I believe in our ideals. You know, we uphold freedom and
Speaker:Track 2: liberty and law and order and international rules based order.
Speaker:Track 2: You know, that's what we do.
Speaker:Track 1: Cyril voted for Obama, but then voted for Trump.
Speaker:Track 3: A hundred percent.
Speaker:Track 2: Oh, for sure. Yeah.
Speaker:Track 3: Like that is that character. He believes that he's doing right. And he's miserable.
Speaker:Track 1: That's like the irony of it too, is he hates his job. Yeah.
Speaker:Track 1: somehow he sees it like i i think i i love when he goes in the very first day
Speaker:Track 1: or the few days they show the imperial security bureau where uh not the isb
Speaker:Track 1: where does he work the it's like standard yeah it's.
Speaker:Track 3: Just standards but.
Speaker:Track 1: They go into the room where he's working there's like hundreds and thousands
Speaker:Track 1: of computers of people just like checking a shipment or like who knows what
Speaker:Track 1: so that the empire could save like nine cents on some like tariff you know or
Speaker:Track 1: some shit and like that's that's what he believes is like a necessary thing you know i.
Speaker:Track 2: Used to think that that would be like a good end to cyril's character is just
Speaker:Track 2: like an off-screen non-actual death death is just him just disappearing into
Speaker:Track 2: the fucking bureau of standards as like another automaton but then i wouldn't
Speaker:Track 2: get him laying in the bed like so i'm kind of torn.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah people have probably seen that meme which is like.
Speaker:Track 2: So funny brilliant actor and like super relatable totally get it yeah you know
Speaker:Track 2: what i mean like your mom razzing on your mom's getting you too hard yeah.
Speaker:Track 3: I do that every day.
Speaker:Track 1: Just collapse on your bed yeah for the weight of it's and it's funny like the
Speaker:Track 1: way you're meant to almost interpret it is he's like can't deal with his mother
Speaker:Track 1: but i think what he also is like unspoken is he can't deal with this,
Speaker:Track 1: world that Deidre has like almost sucked him into further because she's also
Speaker:Track 1: indoctrinating him even more as he's going through.
Speaker:Track 3: I don't know.
Speaker:Track 2: I don't feel like it's the latter. I feel like it's only the former.
Speaker:Track 3: I think she is. I think she sees him.
Speaker:Track 2: I think it's all mom. That's all mom reaction.
Speaker:Track 1: Wait, say that again.
Speaker:Track 3: I think she sees him 100% as a tool. I don't think she's indoctrinated.
Speaker:Track 3: I don't think she gives him enough respect or credit to think he deserves to be indoctrinated.
Speaker:Track 1: Oh, so you think that it's more just she sees him as an asset, basically.
Speaker:Track 3: I mean, like, I think she sees him the way a, like, I think she sees him the
Speaker:Track 3: way a, a canine police officer sees his dog.
Speaker:Track 3: Like, he might be like, he's there. That's a, I love my dog. Good dog.
Speaker:Track 3: Treat him very nicely. But also I'll shoot that fucker if it's in the way of the suspect. Like.
Speaker:Track 2: Department will issue me another one.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah. I'll get another one.
Speaker:Track 1: I'll just get another little doggie.
Speaker:Track 3: Like, I think she genuinely, like, I don't, again, this goes back to,
Speaker:Track 3: like, she, capitalism and fascism breeds sociopathy.
Speaker:Track 3: And I think it would be difficult to describe Deidre in any other way than sociopathic.
Speaker:Track 1: Well, she, we think I, we, I think either one of them, I think maybe I sensed
Speaker:Track 1: you both is that she studied other women sort of sociopaths of history to prepare
Speaker:Track 1: for her character and she nails it.
Speaker:Track 2: Does a great job.
Speaker:Track 3: She's scary.
Speaker:Track 1: Well, so this is a maybe not on a happier note, but a different note,
Speaker:Track 1: since we're talking about how they people were complaining about the humanization of the fascists.
Speaker:Track 1: The one thing about this that I thought the character development of like Bix
Speaker:Track 1: when she's sort of in between missions and she's staying in the safe house and
Speaker:Track 1: she's having, you know, she's having it hard.
Speaker:Track 1: she needs to start taking a drug to help her sleep
Speaker:Track 1: because of not just not just attempt to being raped
Speaker:Track 1: but also just the weight of all of this cassian and
Speaker:Track 1: or can like you don't think he can sleep very well
Speaker:Track 1: i don't think he mentions it at some point it's just you you
Speaker:Track 1: don't often see like the the the toll
Speaker:Track 1: of revolution or any of these things on
Speaker:Track 1: a person's body physically mentally
Speaker:Track 1: all of it it's all very it's not just like
Speaker:Track 1: oh he just went on another mission ha ha ha he got home and like he went back
Speaker:Track 1: out again it's like he actually showing prolonged moments of him at home doing
Speaker:Track 1: nothing cooking a dinner being too scared to go to the grocery store to buy
Speaker:Track 1: like some fruit or whatever that thing was like all of those things is just it adds to the,
Speaker:Track 1: complexity of the show and i appreciate that.
Speaker:Track 3: This is in no way shape or form glorifies I don't know.
Speaker:Track 3: like rebellion or revolution or fighting a system that wants to crush you no
Speaker:Track 3: it's almost like this sucks it makes me think yeah.
Speaker:Track 2: I mean they made it clear in season one when it's like this shit sucks you know
Speaker:Track 2: especially like hell you gotta make the choice 50 50 plus krieger or my one dude.
Speaker:Track 3: It makes and.
Speaker:Track 2: Even this comes more closer to home in this aspect in more personable seeing the emotional toll.
Speaker:Track 3: It makes me physical it makes me um it
Speaker:Track 3: really brings to mind a quote from a completely different property um from a
Speaker:Track 3: a podcast a dnd real play podcast in which the characters uh the dm says um
Speaker:Track 3: when you the beginning the fight for a better world,
Speaker:Track 3: when you begin the fight for a better world, you do not immediately step out to a better world.
Speaker:Track 3: You step out to the nightmares waiting to defeat you from bringing about that better world.
Speaker:Track 3: Like, you don't wake up and go, I'm going to fight for a better world,
Speaker:Track 3: and then step out like, glorious fight. It's great.
Speaker:Track 2: Oh, that was awesome. That was easy.
Speaker:Track 3: You step out to all of the things arrayed against you saying, no.
Speaker:Track 1: And that fits also well with what Nemec said when they're on,
Speaker:Track 1: was it Aldani, right? Aldani?
Speaker:Track 1: In the first season, and he's describing how deep the empire goes and it's not
Speaker:Track 1: just, it's the amount of effort that they need to keep everything in order.
Speaker:Track 1: They have to have one atrocity and one horrible thing after one,
Speaker:Track 1: after another, because if they don't, it has to keep moving.
Speaker:Track 1: And so they're tired from doing all this horrible shit and the rebels are tired
Speaker:Track 1: from having to deal in all of each of these individual horrors and making sense
Speaker:Track 1: and deciding when to pick their battles and it's,
Speaker:Track 1: you know, R.I.P. Nemec, Karl Marx,
Speaker:Track 1: or Lennon, whatever you want to call him.
Speaker:Track 3: He was both. He was multiple things. Multiple people.
Speaker:Track 1: Marx, Lennon, Stalin. Yeah. Engels. I mean,
Speaker:Track 1: I guess that was partly to say is that some of episode four when,
Speaker:Track 1: I think is when Andor has to then go to Gorman himself to kind of help them with their little...
Speaker:Track 1: you know uh.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah he does like an evaluation yes right right he goes there he's like his.
Speaker:Track 1: Name was really funny he used that was um.
Speaker:Track 2: Oh yeah it was very uh like.
Speaker:Track 1: Something star no not star i can't remember what it.
Speaker:Track 2: Was yeah it was uh varian varian sky.
Speaker:Track 1: That's it yeah.
Speaker:Track 2: It's just a great name very better than keith gergo yeah.
Speaker:Track 3: That's a good that's a good man and.
Speaker:Track 1: And also the thing that plit.
Speaker:Track 2: Keith gargo is very glup shit out just saying greatest.
Speaker:Track 3: Fucking greatest thing to come out of star wars other than andor glup shit out.
Speaker:Track 2: I mean jizz is up there that's true as love to play me some jizz you can cut.
Speaker:Track 3: This but i don't know what i don't know what scene it was and we're watching
Speaker:Track 3: and jackie looks up at me and she goes does this count as jizz.
Speaker:Track 2: Please don't tell me it was during the wedding when Mon was dancing okay thank
Speaker:Track 2: god that would have just cut the fucking moment so hard.
Speaker:Track 3: Oh, actually, it was about the Weird Al song.
Speaker:Track 3: Whatever, the Weird Al song about episode, you know, the Podracer movie.
Speaker:Track 3: She goes, is this kind of jizz? No, this is just about Star Wars.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah. Is jizz adjacent?
Speaker:Track 3: No, it has none of the stylistic tendencies of jizz.
Speaker:Track 1: The other the other uh thing that will eventually
Speaker:Track 1: i think come in later and it happens only once in
Speaker:Track 1: the first season where we or maybe it's actually two scenes where we bring in
Speaker:Track 1: saw guerrera again and it's in part because he's kind of on his own separate
Speaker:Track 1: planet and he's getting this extremely volatile uh fuel what is it right don't you it's.
Speaker:Track 3: Rido rydonium yeah.
Speaker:Track 1: And he has this first and also he's
Speaker:Track 1: extremely smart too because he brings in someone to
Speaker:Track 1: handle it and he thinks the person on the planet is gonna like be the be cool
Speaker:Track 1: and be it turns out that he's a rebel uh not a rebel an empire spy and then
Speaker:Track 1: is this is it in episode five or six when he like breathes it in it's not gonna
Speaker:Track 1: have to cut it yeah it is right where he huffs it i.
Speaker:Track 2: Don't hold on give me a second i want to say it might have been at the end of.
Speaker:Track 1: Five so it does happen give me a second yes you're right yeah it's five it's
Speaker:Track 1: where they're extracting this very volatile substance like you have to know
Speaker:Track 1: it perfectly and if not you die but saul's like i'm just gonna huff that shit because.
Speaker:Track 2: I mean so real quick i don't even think saul
Speaker:Track 2: was 100 certain that that dude he was supposed that was supposed to be being
Speaker:Track 2: trained was an imperial spy i think he just did it so that no one would fucking
Speaker:Track 2: question him and that he would have an excuse to bring the guy that was actually capable of doing.
Speaker:Track 1: The job. So you don't think he was actually a spy, he just killed the guy?
Speaker:Track 2: No. I mean dude, Saw Gerrera himself says he's fucking crazy,
Speaker:Track 2: and everything we see in any fucking media about Saw Gerrera,
Speaker:Track 2: the man operates on a level of yes, I'm doing this for the fucking revolution,
Speaker:Track 2: for the rebellion but I am not operating in any way, sense or form that I will
Speaker:Track 2: see the rebellion, the revolution come.
Speaker:Track 2: I plan to go down in flames at some point during all this shit.
Speaker:Track 2: He doesn't operate with a fucking end goal.
Speaker:Track 3: Sol Greer is 100% an anarchist. And like, the idea of like,
Speaker:Track 3: burn it down like no plan no no like i.
Speaker:Track 2: Can't wait for episode two i can harp on this.
Speaker:Track 3: Like saw guerrera honestly i i hate saw guerrera i hate saw guerrera and i hate
Speaker:Track 3: his presence in this he undercuts things i feel like because he serves as this like almost like.
Speaker:Track 1: Like a foil.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah like he serves as this like foil for like reasonable like revolutionary
Speaker:Track 3: thought process it's like he it's like you know it's just the he's so unhinged i hate saw guerrera.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah same it i was was it in something that i sent that said that saw guerrera
Speaker:Track 1: was like uh osama bin laden or something.
Speaker:Track 3: I didn't i.
Speaker:Track 1: Saw someone like like some.
Speaker:Track 3: Oh wait you know yes somebody called him space bin laden.
Speaker:Track 1: Space bin laden yeah which you cannot like him but that's also it's like i have
Speaker:Track 1: mixed opinions about him because he did do things that were necessary and helpful was.
Speaker:Track 2: He funded by the empire in the beginning like bin laden.
Speaker:Track 3: Not as far as i mean just.
Speaker:Track 1: Saying it would have had to been.
Speaker:Track 3: Did was he on time where was the.
Speaker:Track 2: Operation cyclone for saw.
Speaker:Track 3: Guerrera did he get interviewed by barbara walters and be uh put on time magazine as handsome man yeah.
Speaker:Track 2: Did he get put on the fucking cover of new york times as a brave uh anti-rebel
Speaker:Track 2: fighter well if he blew up both.
Speaker:Track 1: Of the uh both of the death stars then he could have made a better comparison.
Speaker:Track 3: Was he the twin was he thanked by the.
Speaker:Track 2: The twin stars if he took down the twin stars with a few.
Speaker:Track 3: Planes was he thanked by the star wars version of rambo as one of the brave
Speaker:Track 3: mouchardine fighters the yeah the brave rebellion Yeah.
Speaker:Track 2: Star Wars version of Rainbow Three was he included.
Speaker:Track 3: Somehow I don't think Saw Gerrera is Space Bin Laden.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah, that's just a reach.
Speaker:Track 3: I think he is, I find him as a character to be one of the weaker aspects of
Speaker:Track 3: like the rebellion story.
Speaker:Track 3: But specifically like the idea of like, I think he undercuts the notion of the
Speaker:Track 3: revolution functioning.
Speaker:Track 3: And maybe that's his point. maybe that's the point
Speaker:Track 3: of having is to say like actually you need to actually again like we said before
Speaker:Track 3: or i might be thinking of another episode we did um you know it's like you need
Speaker:Track 3: to actually want to fight for something not just because you hate something
Speaker:Track 3: you need to want something you need to have a belief in the future that's.
Speaker:Track 1: What luthan's very clear about like he's he he understands what that's the the
Speaker:Track 1: meeting when luthan actually goes to seesaw is like the two polar opposites
Speaker:Track 1: it's like very clear how how much difference they are and there's some.
Speaker:Track 3: Things that i'll say later.
Speaker:Track 1: In the next one that i can't say yet.
Speaker:Track 2: I mean i could throw in i could throw in my hot take luthan is a more refined
Speaker:Track 2: saw guerrera i think he operates on the same level that he doesn't actually
Speaker:Track 2: see expect to see the rebellion he plans on dying and it's.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah in.
Speaker:Track 2: The process he is very much operating on that same level but he's more refined he's understands more.
Speaker:Track 3: He also about.
Speaker:Track 2: The weight of the consequences in the direction that he should be moving.
Speaker:Track 3: Yes but i also think that he is fundamentally i think internally like he is
Speaker:Track 3: fighting for something not just against something like that is like in reality,
Speaker:Track 3: like that is the, the main conflict between anarchism and Marxist Leninism.
Speaker:Track 3: It's the idea. It's like you, you,
Speaker:Track 3: need like you have to plan out not just like
Speaker:Track 3: i want this and then just like map like you
Speaker:Track 3: actually have to like have a process you actually have to like have a whole
Speaker:Track 3: thing and like think it through and fight for something and not just against
Speaker:Track 3: something to bring it down in the hopes that if you bring it down something
Speaker:Track 3: better will come like that's the whole point.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah but we also get some contention there in like
Speaker:Track 2: that same ideology but like in different veins because we got luthan operating
Speaker:Track 2: on the same same way he's always been doing but even cas casian andors hanging
Speaker:Track 2: out in the oven you know he's taking a step back from luthan in his ways and
Speaker:Track 2: he's like no no no we can't do this on our own we gotta build an army oh.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah i do think that luthan we've seen like luthan is lost in his own his own
Speaker:Track 3: shit too like he is definitely it's that individuals he still is thinking too
Speaker:Track 3: individually at a certain level like.
Speaker:Track 1: It luthan seems to set things in motion find the right people he's like a good
Speaker:Track 1: judge of character it seems like he's running a source inside the isb he's doing
Speaker:Track 1: all these things but i think.
Speaker:Track 2: Dude he's a capable refined saw guerrera he's disciplined he's more capable
Speaker:Track 2: but at the end of the day he's at that same wavelength where like he's not expecting
Speaker:Track 2: to see anything in the future like cas is trying to build a life with bix there'll.
Speaker:Track 1: Be more to say.
Speaker:Track 2: About uh.
Speaker:Track 1: Luthan in the in the second sec.
Speaker:Track 2: Absolutely i don't think god i wish we i.
Speaker:Track 3: Don't think we're gonna get to four through six.
Speaker:Track 1: Well we talked a little bit about four through six didn't we i mean sol guerrero.
Speaker:Track 2: Happens we haven't talked about the heist at all.
Speaker:Track 1: What's that?
Speaker:Track 2: You haven't talked about the heist. The second heist.
Speaker:Track 1: I mean, the heist is only... It's okay.
Speaker:Track 3: As a, like, you know, I honestly think we should actually separate things to three.
Speaker:Track 1: Oh, so three, three, three, and three?
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah. Like, I actually don't think... Like, I don't think we're going to get...
Speaker:Track 3: I don't think... And I think we would all be well-served to...
Speaker:Track 2: We just talked about.
Speaker:Track 3: Rewatch yeah we could yeah but like i think we'd be well served to like rewatch
Speaker:Track 3: and then do it because i think we're gonna yeah.
Speaker:Track 2: We're bouncing around.
Speaker:Track 3: A lot i feel like it would be we.
Speaker:Track 2: Also don't have.
Speaker:Track 3: On a professional point i feel like i think we'd be well served.
Speaker:Track 1: Like was there anything from the first three episodes that we missed i mean
Speaker:Track 1: i think the only other thing i can think of i.
Speaker:Track 2: Just want to know more about the monsters on yavin 4.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah That is like that. Like the first episode was honestly.
Speaker:Track 3: What? That was the first episode, right?
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah.
Speaker:Track 3: That whole thing.
Speaker:Track 2: What? The Yavin thing? No, it was two.
Speaker:Track 3: Oh yeah, it was two. Yeah. Like that is.
Speaker:Track 2: The first episode was stealing the, uh, experimental interceptor tie fucking thing.
Speaker:Track 3: Which.
Speaker:Track 1: And the meeting.
Speaker:Track 3: You know, we actually didn't talk about the actual like theft.
Speaker:Track 3: And now like, and it's important to remember. And this is like an important
Speaker:Track 3: factor to remember in terms of like people that like, like for instance,
Speaker:Track 3: like today I saw some video and this person's like, just like, we're doomed.
Speaker:Track 3: They won or whatever. It's like, it feels overwhelming.
Speaker:Track 3: They don't have control of everything.
Speaker:Track 3: They are literally the boy sticking their thumb in the dam.
Speaker:Track 3: Like that cast. And like, this is, we have many parallels in real life. He steals a top secret.
Speaker:Track 3: And why? Because somebody that works there is like, she's there.
Speaker:Track 3: She's like, yeah, she's totally helping them out.
Speaker:Track 3: She's a plant. She's in there. She's on their side. She's helping them out 100%.
Speaker:Track 3: And throughout history, we have seen that.
Speaker:Track 3: They will never, ever be able to keep everything down. You plug a hole, another one comes out.
Speaker:Track 3: It's the way it always is.
Speaker:Track 1: Do we ever really know the point of them even taking that? They don't ever really.
Speaker:Track 2: No, we don't really learn. We don't really learn. I mean, it's just a cool scene.
Speaker:Track 2: I'm not going to lie. It's fucking sick.
Speaker:Track 2: Seeing him just fucking crash that thing fucking around.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah.
Speaker:Track 2: That was the one storm trooper just hauls ass out of there really fucking fast.
Speaker:Track 2: He's like, nah, I'm not fucking staying.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah. When he finally, like they are all shooting at him and he's like, I have a, I have a ship.
Speaker:Track 2: I have guns.
Speaker:Track 1: Oh, and they're.
Speaker:Track 3: Just like people and he's just like and they're yeah i can't fly but.
Speaker:Track 1: Um i.
Speaker:Track 2: Can work these guns.
Speaker:Track 1: Real quick reminded me of uh in in the movie uh in in independence day when
Speaker:Track 1: will smith is yeah flying the craft and he like realizes that like forward is
Speaker:Track 1: backwards and he flips the little thing over and he yeah shoots it out i was
Speaker:Track 1: like one of those moments seemed like everything was just backwards i don't know yeah wrong oh.
Speaker:Track 3: The garage door is closed it doesn't matter i have like a laser just like a
Speaker:Track 3: b like i don't know what the fuck that was like just a thing that melts shit and i'm just yeah.
Speaker:Track 2: I'm leaving i love when the my pay my pay brigade asks him like what's this
Speaker:Track 2: button dude he's like i wouldn't,
Speaker:Track 2: what does it do i don't know it's a it does crazy shit what is it i'll fucking
Speaker:Track 2: know though don't ask me i just fly the.
Speaker:Track 1: Theory about the plan the plane and maybe it's not that they actually knew this
Speaker:Track 1: is it possible that his contact inside of this, wherever it was,
Speaker:Track 1: this hangar, this base, or was it a base? Was it a, somewhere. Wherever it was.
Speaker:Track 1: Is it possible that the technology that was on this little new TIE fighter is
Speaker:Track 1: in some way related to the Death
Speaker:Track 1: Star and they're somehow trying to get information on, like, new tech?
Speaker:Track 1: And maybe they're testing, like, Death Star tech on, like, a small scale on
Speaker:Track 1: this little TIE fighter? I don't know.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah, that thing he did shoot, it did do that, like, coalescent thing.
Speaker:Track 3: It felt like a mini death star. Yeah.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah, I mean, yeah, it felt like a very much like scaled down prototype phase of that.
Speaker:Track 2: I don't know for sure if that's why they were going for it. I mean,
Speaker:Track 2: I think it's just because, hey, we have this.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah, they didn't know what the Death Star, they don't know what the Death Star is.
Speaker:Track 2: This girl that wants to defect, she wants like this woman who wants to defect.
Speaker:Track 2: She wants to fucking be a part of it. She has access to this facility.
Speaker:Track 2: So we should take advantage of this while we have the chance.
Speaker:Track 2: No, yeah, we could easily scoop her up and, like, fucking bring her to our side,
Speaker:Track 2: but might as well utilize her while we can before we extract her.
Speaker:Track 1: Well, not only that, is they could theoretically, maybe they're thinking we
Speaker:Track 1: can, like, reverse engineer this technology.
Speaker:Track 2: Oh, yeah, probably that, too. You know, like, steps down the line,
Speaker:Track 2: but it was probably more circumstantial that, like, oh, hey,
Speaker:Track 2: this is a good recruit. What are you doing?
Speaker:Track 2: Oh, that's what you do? Hell, yeah, let's do this.
Speaker:Track 3: I do think it's like, it's interesting though, that like the,
Speaker:Track 3: in the first two episodes, like Cass's storyline is by far the weakest.
Speaker:Track 3: Like his storyline in the first two episodes, like his storyline is by far the
Speaker:Track 3: weakest, like just unnecessarily, we could have cut his storyline could have
Speaker:Track 3: been cut from those first two episodes. no bearing on the story and not only.
Speaker:Track 2: No bearing on the story.
Speaker:Track 3: But like no like loss to like plot or importance or emotional impact like.
Speaker:Track 2: Or like even character arc the only like character growth we see from and or
Speaker:Track 2: in the first two episodes is when he tells the um tells that um the,
Speaker:Track 2: experimental pilot tech or the experimental ship tech who's defecting like oh
Speaker:Track 2: no no no you're risking everything feel free to ask as many questions as you
Speaker:Track 2: want and like that's only because he never got to ask questions to Luthan,
Speaker:Track 2: that's really the only growth we see in that and it's what a half a second line
Speaker:Track 2: which I do think is an important thing oh yeah no it's definitely good to see but like a minor tone.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah that was that's episode one he lands on that planet on episode one.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah also I want to know more about the monsters they're really big for nocturnal creatures like yeah,
Speaker:Track 2: I'm just saying, normally nocturnal creatures are small, but,
Speaker:Track 2: like, them dudes are big.
Speaker:Track 3: They're really big.
Speaker:Track 2: And then, like, what? Oh, never mind.
Speaker:Track 3: What?
Speaker:Track 2: I mean, no, that's not spoiling anything. We know eventually that the Rebel base is on Yavin 4.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah, because...
Speaker:Track 2: So, like... What, do they get rid of all...
Speaker:Track 1: It's because the timeline's name is B-Y-Y.
Speaker:Track 2: Does the rebellion escape?
Speaker:Track 3: Okay, yeah, I'm sorry. That's the one thing. That is a... They never explain
Speaker:Track 3: that. It's just B-B-Y-1.
Speaker:Track 3: B-B-Y-2. It's never explained in context because how could it be? How could it be?
Speaker:Track 3: Because that is literally. It hasn't happened yet.
Speaker:Track 3: They have back. They have backdated from another fucking thing. I'm sorry.
Speaker:Track 1: That was a fan service.
Speaker:Track 3: Whoever made that decision should be fired. That is a terrible choice.
Speaker:Track 2: My wife, Joy, she even asked me like a few episodes and she was like,
Speaker:Track 2: what the fuck is BBY? Why?
Speaker:Track 2: I'm like, oh, yeah, no, that totally makes sense. You wouldn't fucking know that.
Speaker:Track 3: Why would anybody know that?
Speaker:Track 2: You know? Why would anyone know that?
Speaker:Track 3: I.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah. The fact that I knew, I felt bad. I was like, fuck, why do I know this?
Speaker:Track 3: I thought about it. I'm like, is it? I'm like, it can't be that.
Speaker:Track 3: I literally was like, it can't be that. There's no fucking way.
Speaker:Track 3: I'm like, I figured it out and I convinced myself I was wrong and Googled it.
Speaker:Track 1: I already knew.
Speaker:Track 3: I found out I was right and I was annoyed.
Speaker:Track 2: I already knew.
Speaker:Track 1: I knew only because if you Google the timeline of just things,
Speaker:Track 1: the movies, it does it based on the B-B-Y.
Speaker:Track 2: Everything Star Wars timeline is B-B-Y.
Speaker:Track 3: Oh, see, I've blocked that from my memory because I don't care about the sequels.
Speaker:Track 2: B-B-Y and A-B-Y.
Speaker:Track 3: See, the sequels don't matter to me, so nothing happens.
Speaker:Track 1: But I can understand.
Speaker:Track 2: Everything important is B-B-Y, all right? Everything important is B-B-Y.
Speaker:Track 1: People in the 500 B.C. weren't calling it B.C.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker:Track 1: Before what we don't know that that doesn't happen yet that's.
Speaker:Track 3: A joke in the asterisk cartoon.
Speaker:Track 1: But I think the only reason they decided to do that was to simply,
Speaker:Track 1: there's no reason why couldn't they just be like, one year later, one year later.
Speaker:Track 1: Like, what do they need one year later, you know?
Speaker:Track 3: BBY.
Speaker:Track 2: For the theatrical re-release of Rogue One, where they go, like, BBY One.
Speaker:Track 1: It's like practically, you know, a month before, I don't know the exact number
Speaker:Track 1: of days, because it's not really.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah, something fucking. Between the end of Rogue One and episode four is like
Speaker:Track 1: literally at the same time. They end and the other one starts.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah.
Speaker:Track 3: So Ward, when they release it in the theater, you're going to hop over.
Speaker:Track 3: You're coming over to the East Coast, right? For like, we're going to do like
Speaker:Track 3: a whole like movie thing.
Speaker:Track 2: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally.
Speaker:Track 1: I almost watched Rogue One after finishing it. I knew I wouldn't finish it before
Speaker:Track 1: we recorded this film. Like, am I going to just go right into it?
Speaker:Track 1: And after this might do that. I don't know.
Speaker:Track 3: I'm going to, but then I'm going to.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah, I'm going to watch it very soon.
Speaker:Track 1: I think I've seen Rogue One probably only maybe three or four times,
Speaker:Track 1: but there's no point in watching any of the other ones again.
Speaker:Track 3: Oh.
Speaker:Track 1: Honestly, I don't think there's anything we really missed from the first three. I don't know.
Speaker:Track 1: But we will catch you on the next episode of Andor.
