Episode 176
TV BONUS: Andor - Season 1 - Episodes 1-6
In this episode, we analyze the first season of "Andor," the prequel to Rogue One, with guests Bill and Ward. We discuss the show's unique approach to storytelling within the Star Wars universe, focusing on its complex portrayal of rebellion and oppression. Highlighting Cassian Andor's journey from marginalized thief to revolutionary, we examine themes of class struggle, corporate control, and character motivations. Key moments, like the Aldani heist, illustrate the blend of action and ideology. We encourage listeners to binge the season before our next discussion, promising deeper insights into this groundbreaking series.
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Transcript
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Speaker:Evan: Hello, and welcome to Left of the Projector. I'm your host, Evan,
Speaker:Evan: back again with another film discussion from the left.
Speaker:Evan: You can follow the show at leftwitheprojector.com.
Speaker:Evan: We bring you a first of a multi-part series on another television show.
Speaker:Evan: This time, the first season of Andor, a Star Wars story, which is a prequel
Speaker:Evan: series to Rogue One, which is also a prequel series to other Star Wars movies.
Speaker:Evan: There's a million Star Wars movies.
Speaker:Evan: We all tell you why this is the best Star Wars content.
Speaker:Evan: And back, I have Bill and Ward, who you've heard discuss other such episodes
Speaker:Evan: as The Big Lebowski, Alien, and some other things which escape me at the moment.
Speaker:Evan: but uh thank you both for coming back on the show happy.
Speaker:ward: To be here.
Speaker:bill: Thank you for having us since.
Speaker:Evan: I said this is the best star wars content it's to me it's the best show but
Speaker:Evan: as the prequel to the best movie is this true.
Speaker:bill: Unequivocally yeah objectively true rogue.
Speaker:ward: One is the best movie i'm.
Speaker:bill: Personally enjoying i.
Speaker:ward: Enjoy and or more than rogue one actually yeah.
Speaker:Evan: It's like a lot of rogue wand.
Speaker:ward: Yeah it's.
Speaker:bill: Yeah it's sick i mean rogue one does
Speaker:bill: have some stupid force shit so you know that's the ding against it which is
Speaker:bill: what it's like when you're a kid you're and the jedi are awesome and now i'm
Speaker:bill: like the jedi are the worst people alive they're terrible and i don't care about
Speaker:bill: them or the force at all in any way shape and.
Speaker:Evan: They don't mention them a single time in this show at all.
Speaker:bill: No
Speaker:ward: It's really the best part honestly if you ask me.
Speaker:Evan: Personally one of the one of the things i saw when they were developing the
Speaker:Evan: show and they brought together like all the like the writing team to build it
Speaker:Evan: they specifically dan gilroy told them not to consider the show and nostalgia
Speaker:Evan: and like bringing back other star wars when they wrote it so that it wouldn't
Speaker:Evan: affect the show and they nailed it.
Speaker:bill: Which like that is such a honestly the if we can talk about nostalgia and how
Speaker:bill: nostalgia is a tool for fascism, that is such a fucking excellent point.
Speaker:bill: Because, I mean, we talked about it in Alien Romulus. The one thing that none
Speaker:bill: of us liked in that movie was the nostalgia bait and the fan bait.
Speaker:bill: And it's like, the best part, it's like, make a good thing on its own,
Speaker:bill: based on the foundations, but without the nostalgia.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah, I think the quote that I saw on the Wikipedia or about it,
Speaker:Evan: he said, he wanted the series to be grounded in reality
Speaker:Evan: too and so well before we talk about
Speaker:Evan: well so in this episode we're going to talk about half the season generally
Speaker:Evan: probably the show we we're not going to we won't talk about the the second half
Speaker:Evan: and the spoilers of what happens but if you're listening now you should go watch
Speaker:Evan: the entire the whole series because season two is coming out in about a month
Speaker:Evan: and a half from recording of this so you should get ready to uh watch season two but Like,
Speaker:Evan: what do you think of the show purely as a revolutionary...
Speaker:Evan: story or message leading into rogue one which is kind of funny because they
Speaker:Evan: made a prequel where you know exactly what's going to happen at the end which
Speaker:Evan: they said made it really easy to make the show in the sense that they knew what
Speaker:Evan: the ending would be before they started they just had to get there so since
Speaker:Evan: a lot of people talk about the show as being kind of a revolutionary,
Speaker:Evan: show not like revolutionary and like what they made like a revolutionary as
Speaker:Evan: in you know uh just feeding fascism and such and story yeah themes and stories
Speaker:Evan: yeah so i don't know what do you think about that generally like do you think
Speaker:Evan: that it do you think that it's like over,
Speaker:Evan: liberalized you know especially given we're talking about disney and we're talking about star wars i.
Speaker:ward: Don't think so which is really surprising given it is disney and it is star wars yeah.
Speaker:bill: It is shocking i mean shocking.
Speaker:ward: Like i i love how the revolutionary rhetoric and themes in this show are and
Speaker:ward: i was one who like on uh on my previous podcast we talked about squid games
Speaker:ward: i bash squid games for being too liberal like i don't have any complaints of
Speaker:ward: liberalism and and or though.
Speaker:Evan: Some of the characters are what
Speaker:Evan: makes also the show so good i think is that you actually get characters
Speaker:Evan: that are not just one dimensional which you also have
Speaker:Evan: a long series so you can flesh that out but even a
Speaker:Evan: lot of other series where there's even star wars or other shit they don't
Speaker:Evan: like give characters actual growth they don't give
Speaker:Evan: them you know uh this multifaceted
Speaker:Evan: you know starting from one place and actually getting
Speaker:Evan: somewhere else at the end of the season or whatever for actually like reasons
Speaker:Evan: like you actually see and or and his growth even from the midway of when we're
Speaker:Evan: gonna eventually stop watching you know this episode or stop discussing it to
Speaker:Evan: like the second half it's just it's kind of crazy it's um,
Speaker:Evan: Uh, yeah, I, um, I don't see any liberal kind of messages.
Speaker:Evan: It's actually shocking to me that this mood, that this series was made to be,
Speaker:Evan: to be, to be perfectly blunt.
Speaker:ward: I'm right there with you.
Speaker:bill: Yeah i mean you know we we can
Speaker:bill: talk about you know the issues of commodification of
Speaker:bill: like revolutionary rhetoric and you know we can talk about that
Speaker:bill: all dang long and that's an absolutely hat but
Speaker:bill: like the fact of the matter is is that in terms of like what's available and
Speaker:bill: what is released and what's out there and what people see um and you know culture
Speaker:bill: and what is produced media affects people and it does it does speak to people
Speaker:bill: and it it shocks me that But because of how hard-line this actually is,
Speaker:bill: the show is a pretty hard-line on what it stands for and what it says.
Speaker:bill: And it is shocking that it is pretty incredible.
Speaker:Evan: And again, since we're talking about a bunch of episodes, we're not necessarily
Speaker:Evan: going to go through each one individually and talk about it.
Speaker:Evan: But sort of the sketching out understanding kind of what happens is you have
Speaker:Evan: Cassian Andor, who's sort of the obviously the show's name Andor.
Speaker:Evan: It's based on him and his, you know, initially they kind of see him on one planet,
Speaker:Evan: you know, kind of doing a robbery,
Speaker:Evan: you know, getting caught up, killing some people accidentally or, you know, in a mess.
Speaker:Evan: And he's basically trying to survive on a planet that is beholden to giant corporations,
Speaker:Evan: which isn't actually the Empire at this point.
Speaker:Evan: What I think is actually a good starting point is that they really dig into this show about...
Speaker:Evan: Beyond just okay the empire is evil and they own and
Speaker:Evan: control everything you actually see sort of the other side
Speaker:Evan: of the um the other
Speaker:Evan: side of like the working class similar in a way to alien romulus
Speaker:Evan: where they show you on a planet where they're mining and doing all this labor
Speaker:Evan: that's sort of disconnected from everything you see this planet that's a bunch
Speaker:Evan: of essentially uh people working just to to make ends meet and uh he gets you
Speaker:Evan: know caught up in something and eventually has to flee,
Speaker:Evan: and it's uh just interesting to me how well they brought in a bunch of different
Speaker:Evan: planets and i can well you tell me what you think about that and then i'm i'm
Speaker:Evan: gonna i'll sketch out a couple of the planets because i think it's helpful for
Speaker:Evan: anyone maybe who hasn't seen.
Speaker:ward: It yeah i really enjoyed like how they had ferrix similar
Speaker:ward: like what you're thinking alien romulus like re-watching i was
Speaker:ward: thinking i was like oh this is like kind of like alien romulus where it's
Speaker:ward: like a different aspect of the working class in the
Speaker:ward: universe and like the fact that it's not directly
Speaker:ward: under imperial control it's under corporate control
Speaker:ward: which like i don't
Speaker:ward: know that that made me think of us talking about uh mussolini style
Speaker:ward: fascism uh from the alien romulus episode
Speaker:ward: not gonna lie um that it was under direct corporate
Speaker:ward: control instead of uh direct imperial but like
Speaker:ward: yeah no even within these first few the first
Speaker:ward: half of the season we get the empire finally taking over and
Speaker:ward: like setting up on ferricks and yeah you have the characters telling us for
Speaker:ward: themselves like this is the first time in a long time that the empire has been
Speaker:ward: here we've actually been like they haven't been here in a long time and so you're
Speaker:ward: actually getting to see like kind of a different aspect in like yeah,
Speaker:ward: that's kind of really the only star warsy thing that i really enjoy about it
Speaker:ward: is that like it's taking place in the star wars universe i guess but like i
Speaker:ward: love the politics of this i.
Speaker:bill: Think that like the fact that it starts off under corporate control and like,
Speaker:bill: it is made very clear not just that like and it's
Speaker:bill: not just that you know it's the company that they work for
Speaker:bill: but it's their it's corporate security that those
Speaker:bill: are paid those are security office private
Speaker:bill: company in the state stuff like that it's a private company paid
Speaker:bill: to enforce the law and then
Speaker:bill: they are and i like i feel like that is
Speaker:bill: such an important distinction that isn't
Speaker:bill: made and which is part of like how you
Speaker:bill: can you can argue about like the liberalism of star
Speaker:bill: wars at large and the way it is portrayed and
Speaker:bill: how easy to be like oh it's empire the empire is evil you know like throughout
Speaker:bill: the rest of star wars if we want to talk about the uh inferior we're gonna get
Speaker:bill: i mean you're gonna get slammed by star wars nerds i.
Speaker:Evan: Don't know if they listen to this podcast.
Speaker:bill: At them they like the other movies more you're gonna get fucking run out of town well but it's.
Speaker:Evan: Such a good i mean you're right i mean it's there's no other um.
Speaker:bill: One of the one of the distinct aspects of
Speaker:bill: what separates what is one of the most important
Speaker:bill: aspects that separates electives from a liberal it's understanding it's
Speaker:bill: an understanding of capitalist capitalist control
Speaker:bill: ruling class control and corporate and look how that implies you know what all
Speaker:bill: that implies and that is missing from all other star wars like that is not an
Speaker:bill: aspect it's just you know space hill and it's like but this makes it implicit
Speaker:bill: like no this is rooted in capital it's rooted and.
Speaker:Evan: I think what makes it like drives that point home even further is
Speaker:Evan: so we also learn there's a lot of like flashing back and
Speaker:Evan: forth to in the in the first uh three
Speaker:Evan: or four episodes or so maybe it's even just the first three
Speaker:Evan: episodes where we see and or where he comes from
Speaker:Evan: where he comes from a planet called canari which is this mid-rim
Speaker:Evan: like forest rich planet which became a mining colony and essentially in this
Speaker:Evan: case it's very much like what you would see in uh america by you know uh america
Speaker:Evan: you know by sorry not america in on earth by america you know being this you
Speaker:Evan: know uh colonizing force that goes into other places,
Speaker:Evan: you know, takes over and mines them for their resources, you know,
Speaker:Evan: kills all the people or kills the people they need to and steals all the everything from them.
Speaker:Evan: And that's what this planet is. And that's where he comes from.
Speaker:Evan: And it seems also that they make it very explicit. There's like an accident
Speaker:Evan: on this planet that like fucking killed a bunch of people and cause,
Speaker:Evan: you know, major problems.
Speaker:Evan: And it's that again, reminds me, sadly, about the episode on Alien Romulus,
Speaker:Evan: where they have this planet that they're just killing the planet doing they
Speaker:Evan: can't even see the fucking sun and they're just destroying everything and that
Speaker:Evan: that's he's gone from this horrible place to this working class place and then
Speaker:Evan: he then goes to another planet i'll i'll uh i'll dot all this is a dalhani is a.
Speaker:Evan: Aldani and again another situation where
Speaker:Evan: it's a base for the empire which used
Speaker:Evan: to have indigenous people which they killed and drove off their land so we can
Speaker:Evan: see on almost every planet with the exception of the very wealthy ones all of
Speaker:Evan: the the harm that these corporations and then the empire does to them and you
Speaker:Evan: never see that on any other star wars content ever.
Speaker:ward: Yeah no oh i mean it's even more overt
Speaker:ward: than both of those examples i mean leading up into
Speaker:ward: like that second example you're talking about the planet aldani
Speaker:ward: and how the danny people were fucking killed and
Speaker:ward: murdered and drove and driven off their lands like you have the commandant of
Speaker:ward: the bear of the garrison even saying explicitly that's not profit profitable
Speaker:ward: like that's why would we do it that way that's not profitable no we did it this
Speaker:ward: way instead like it's overt in your face which is crazy.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah they.
Speaker:bill: Don't beat around the bush.
Speaker:Evan: And they built the dam also to to destroy like their land as well so they everything
Speaker:Evan: they can do to essentially make their lives impossible and have to forcibly
Speaker:Evan: displace them to a profit off it and all of this yeah it's it's um yeah.
Speaker:ward: He said specifically there's no profit in that.
Speaker:Evan: Oh man like you don't you don't you don't get i don't think they've ever said
Speaker:Evan: the were like profit in us in a star wars movie before no.
Speaker:ward: I don't think so.
Speaker:bill: Uh i mean they might have been whatever the ones with the trade routes.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah trade routes i guess like the cartoons and.
Speaker:bill: The no no no no no the the the first prequels.
Speaker:Evan: Oh uh yeah episode one um yeah yeah jar jar with.
Speaker:bill: The with the uh the midichlorians yeah and the the horrible asian stereotype
Speaker:bill: alien i think they talked about profit.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah, I guess that's probably right. But not in the same way where they're actually
Speaker:Evan: discussing it. Like, it takes me back to when...
Speaker:ward: As a motive?
Speaker:Evan: Yeah, as a motive, exactly. Not just like, oh, like, there's some profits that gets lost.
Speaker:Evan: And then, what was I going to mention about the... Yeah, so the other planet
Speaker:Evan: that I haven't mentioned, which comes into play is Coruscant,
Speaker:Evan: which is sort of the home of the Galactic Empire, where the Senate is housed,
Speaker:Evan: and it's basically just a rich, you know, a rich person's planet,
Speaker:Evan: which you probably have to assume there's got to be people that are the service workers.
Speaker:ward: There's people that live in the lower depths of Coruscant who don't see the light and sun.
Speaker:ward: It's a trillion population planet.
Speaker:bill: It's a hive planet i mean.
Speaker:Evan: Oh you're right there's.
Speaker:bill: A word for it i i'm i'm using 40k language but there's a word for what it is and i forget what it is.
Speaker:ward: Yeah i can't remember either but yeah it's like a trillion population planet
Speaker:ward: and it's mostly vertical and only the people who have it nice see like the sky and shit yeah.
Speaker:Evan: God you not just one trillion it's two trillion oh.
Speaker:ward: Shit i was off my bad.
Speaker:Evan: And it says that it's seven 68 percent human and 32 percent other sentience
Speaker:Evan: so those are the ones that you know definitely do not see any son you know they're being how many do.
Speaker:ward: How many have we seen.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah there's like a driver of the limo and then the the douchebag husband and
Speaker:Evan: the you know a few other people can't.
Speaker:ward: Stand the husband oh.
Speaker:bill: Who is just a straight up uh man that whole watching their marriage makes me mad.
Speaker:Evan: Well so to get to like to even to get to the husband so we sort of again i'm
Speaker:Evan: not gonna skip it around i know but so basically we watch.
Speaker:ward: All six episodes and come back and listen to this.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah you'll have a good time i'm guessing he's probably our opinions anyways
Speaker:Evan: but so i think a couple of the characters that were are worth talking about
Speaker:Evan: at the beginning too and i think because i mentioned how andor comes from this
Speaker:Evan: canary where he's originally you know didn't speak or he only spoke the local
Speaker:Evan: language and he essentially is,
Speaker:Evan: taken to ferricks by uh a woman and i guess it's not her husband is it it's
Speaker:Evan: like another partner right yeah.
Speaker:bill: They're just like co-workers or like.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah yeah.
Speaker:bill: No i don't think these are.
Speaker:Evan: No i don't think so either and then basically taking is.
Speaker:bill: It's not relevant.
Speaker:Evan: No it's not but so one of the questions that i was that i was thinking about are you.
Speaker:ward: Guys are you just going overlooked the fact that uh cassian andor's black father
Speaker:ward: was killed by local police okay.
Speaker:Evan: Oh you're right that is that is true i.
Speaker:bill: Mean i meant whether they were married isn't relevant granted that's also after
Speaker:bill: episode six not cassian's relationship to the man.
Speaker:Evan: Yes yes well but so the like the the thing that's interesting about it is he's
Speaker:Evan: on this planet they uh have a run-in with the Empire, essentially,
Speaker:Evan: and it leads to several of his,
Speaker:Evan: friends or family getting killed and he's then taken away by someone who's on
Speaker:Evan: the planet presumably to loot, I think, some of the Empire's materials.
Speaker:ward: They're just scavenging.
Speaker:Evan: Scavengers, right?
Speaker:bill: Yeah, they're just scavenging, yeah.
Speaker:Evan: And they take Andor away from his home planet. And I'm curious if you think
Speaker:Evan: that this is... It is essentially to save his life, potentially getting then
Speaker:Evan: killed by the Empire, but...
Speaker:ward: I mean, we have confirmation that he would have been killed by the Empire.
Speaker:Evan: But do you, I don't know why I have it in my head that it's still like,
Speaker:Evan: I think, an interesting question of taking this indigenous person from their
Speaker:Evan: home and essentially taking them under,
Speaker:Evan: you know, to save them, sort of be a mother to that person. I don't know. Am I like reaching?
Speaker:ward: I mean, I would say in simplest terms, even though she did it for all the right
Speaker:ward: reasons and she was right to do it, it wasn't her decision to make.
Speaker:bill: I mean, well, I mean, do we know that he was indigenous?
Speaker:Evan: I guess we don't.
Speaker:ward: I mean, we don't have we don't see him being like front shitted out on Kanari.
Speaker:ward: So, I mean, there's that.
Speaker:bill: But we don't know that.
Speaker:ward: Marva is adamant that she put fest on all of his fucking paperwork that she
Speaker:ward: never told anybody except for only people that are dead that he was from Qunari.
Speaker:bill: That's a good point.
Speaker:ward: Yeah, like she was adamant about that. She started grilling him about who did
Speaker:ward: you tell that you're from Qunari. So more than likely he's born on Qunari.
Speaker:bill: Yeah, you're probably right based on that, yes.
Speaker:Evan: And it's very problematic too for the Empire knowing that he's from there.
Speaker:Evan: Like that is a very big sticking point.
Speaker:bill: I don't, I mean, I think Ward is pretty much, you know, up like,
Speaker:bill: yeah, it's like, she didn't really have that choice.
Speaker:bill: She didn't, you know, have, you know, the, I guess the right to make that decision for him.
Speaker:bill: But at the same time, like it's still like, she was a child. She, he was, yeah.
Speaker:ward: No concept.
Speaker:bill: It's not like, okay. But it's not like it's made very clear that whatever happened
Speaker:bill: on that planet, all the adults.
Speaker:bill: these kids were basically like left to like
Speaker:bill: figure it out like they were not that was not a
Speaker:bill: society that was not a a functional society that was you know they were rebuilding
Speaker:bill: in the wake of everyone being dead and the likelihood that they even survived
Speaker:bill: past that regardless of what the empire seems unlikely because the planet was like painted for all.
Speaker:ward: Yeah like for me it's the for
Speaker:ward: me the reality on canari is there are
Speaker:ward: no adults because more than like the the empire took
Speaker:ward: all of them for slave labor for the mines and given
Speaker:ward: what we've learned in episodes one through six they had
Speaker:ward: child uh work camps too child
Speaker:ward: slave camps too so he was
Speaker:ward: next you know him and his tribe like moving
Speaker:ward: from group like area to area group to group whatever they're
Speaker:ward: doing however they're surviving dude it was just a
Speaker:ward: matter of time that they're about to get rounded up by the empire and put
Speaker:ward: to slave camps too and that's not even including the
Speaker:ward: immediate context of hey they fucking
Speaker:ward: killed a dude at a fucking empire imperial
Speaker:ward: uh craft crash site and now
Speaker:ward: that like they're sending a fucking force to fucking kill
Speaker:ward: him so like and knowing and what we get told like within the story that there's
Speaker:ward: no survivors of canary like it's labeled off limits it's a toxic waste zone
Speaker:ward: like we know that over time it becomes so over exploited to the point of uninhabitability
Speaker:ward: like that's the lengths the empires were willing to go to.
Speaker:bill: I feel like it's implied that basically something went wrong like because for it to go that fast.
Speaker:ward: I want to take it as like they went full bore like who gives a fuck just keep drilling and.
Speaker:bill: Then yeah but that's what i mean like.
Speaker:ward: That seems like empire they went so.
Speaker:bill: Far so fast they awoken something from the deep.
Speaker:Evan: From the minds of moria.
Speaker:ward: I
Speaker:bill: Wasn't gonna say that.
Speaker:Evan: All right all.
Speaker:bill: Right i was referencing it i didn't say it.
Speaker:Evan: But well but and that's that's the purpose of having those child laborers right
Speaker:Evan: they can they don't care about them they can let them get you know who knows what kind of disease or.
Speaker:ward: Are they gonna uprise against you they're half as tall as you.
Speaker:bill: Yeah.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah.
Speaker:bill: We've already talked about this, you know, like the kids.
Speaker:ward: And also sometimes they yearn for the mines, like.
Speaker:bill: And it's going to have a blast. In rare form.
Speaker:Evan: Once you sort of get these kind of flashbacks, it's basically giving you a lot
Speaker:Evan: of context as to where Andor is coming from and then why he's then sort of saved.
Speaker:Evan: I kind of put that in quotation marks from Ferex and then kind of recruited,
Speaker:Evan: which we don't get till about episode, I think three,
Speaker:Evan: I think it's when we learn, you know, that he's being recruited to be this,
Speaker:Evan: you know, person that we're going to have this large scale, you know, heist.
Speaker:ward: No, we learned that episode one.
Speaker:Evan: Do we learn episode one that he's recruiting him?
Speaker:ward: So he goes to talk to Bix after he killed the two Corpo cops.
Speaker:ward: He's like, hey, call your guy. I got something that he's really going to want.
Speaker:ward: And Bix says to him, he's been wanting to meet you.
Speaker:Evan: Oh, you're right. You're right. I forgot about that.
Speaker:ward: And I'm pretty sure that is due to info we get, I'm pretty sure, episode three,
Speaker:ward: whenever they get, when Tim rats out fucking Cassian Andor to the fucking Corpo,
Speaker:ward: and they pull up his rap sheet, and he's got a rap sheet for insurrection,
Speaker:ward: damage of government property, and assault on an Imperial officer.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah, yeah, okay. So all this information, we definitely know that is known by Luthan.
Speaker:ward: Yeah, so I'm pretty sure- Yeah, Luthan knows it because Bix has told him,
Speaker:ward: plus he's got all his connections-
Speaker:Evan: He knows where he's from the whole time.
Speaker:ward: He knows where he's from. He knows that he killed the two corpos.
Speaker:ward: He probably knows his rap sheet too.
Speaker:ward: And he knows that he's been working with Bix to get all this Imperial gear and sell it.
Speaker:ward: Like they've been in cahoots with Bix. He's been helping out Bix. Like, you know?
Speaker:Evan: Yeah. And especially given the fact that if like the Imperial,
Speaker:Evan: he's, the way that it's interesting, we can also talk about this too,
Speaker:Evan: that at some point, maybe it's worth it now.
Speaker:Evan: But like, so Luthan's character is sort of like the recruiter and he's acting
Speaker:Evan: sort of has this go-between to set up all these different things in different places.
Speaker:Evan: But what do you think about the organization that they have as far as the revolutionaries,
Speaker:Evan: whatever you want to call this resistance group?
Speaker:Evan: It seems like they have a very strong organization just on the one planet we learn about.
Speaker:ward: Yeah, I think it's very strict. There's layers of anonymity and layers of secrecy
Speaker:ward: and need to know and i think it's beautifully well done i mean how the fuck else would you do it it's.
Speaker:bill: Very clearly based on like you know cell-based organization and
Speaker:bill: you know in in the matter that in this situation
Speaker:bill: that it is it would need to be operated that you you don't
Speaker:bill: we don't have the the veneer of
Speaker:bill: bourgeois liberalism in this story
Speaker:bill: is it's all that it's purely a veneer and it's only for it is only for show
Speaker:bill: amongst the upper class like the upper class the lower class do not have access
Speaker:bill: to bourgeois democracy at all and the only way to resist it is through that kind of thing.
Speaker:ward: I think i i think i'm remembering the one instance of like liberalism in this show oh.
Speaker:Evan: Let's hear it.
Speaker:ward: Um first half is the commandant's son,
Speaker:ward: who doesn't want to wear his imperial jacket for the general inspector that's coming down.
Speaker:ward: And like, oh, I'm going to be sick.
Speaker:ward: He's always sick. His mom's like, oh, yeah, I think he's going to be sick.
Speaker:ward: He's always sick. That's like it. I feel like that's the only example I got.
Speaker:Evan: I mean, if that's all you got, then I'd say, again, kudos to them making this.
Speaker:Evan: kudos to you tony gilroy that's.
Speaker:ward: Purely just like a kid shying away from not wanting to be a part of an empire
Speaker:ward: like that's it it's bad i'm.
Speaker:bill: Gonna grow up to be an anarchist.
Speaker:Evan: Well so
Speaker:Evan: and the other thing so they have this very strong organization we
Speaker:Evan: have like basically now andor is now being recruited like
Speaker:Evan: the scene where luthan and he are in that sort of like warehouse and
Speaker:Evan: they're escaping is like also the most like such a badass scene like
Speaker:Evan: it just shows how like you know you you sort
Speaker:Evan: of see in the very first episode how strong of
Speaker:Evan: a character and how good and or is at you know fighting and all the different
Speaker:Evan: things he's you know being smart and being able to get away and all these skills
Speaker:Evan: he has but like every episode you see him open up more of those skills and you
Speaker:Evan: see why luthan needs him for you know their cause yeah.
Speaker:bill: Like when he when they when they go through the plan on how to fly the thing
Speaker:bill: he's like you don't even know what you're doing you don't even know how to you
Speaker:bill: don't even know that it's like i'm flying it because you don't even know what.
Speaker:ward: Would you have done if i wasn't here.
Speaker:bill: Yeah what would you have done if i wasn't here yeah when he says that it's like
Speaker:bill: so like and he's just so like frustrated because it's like yes they are disciplined
Speaker:bill: and they but they've also they've
Speaker:bill: done all the like they've done all the organizing and like the like,
Speaker:bill: deal stuff but like none of them clearly have done actual leg work shit that
Speaker:bill: he has done and he's like look at you amateurs.
Speaker:ward: I mean i mean oh man it'd go into pass our episode limit but i'd say we could
Speaker:ward: do like a breakdown on like the full um the heist crew if you will.
Speaker:Evan: Oh the.
Speaker:ward: Rebellion heist crew and like their backgrounds we could do a whole but like
Speaker:ward: that's kind of spoiler-ish.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah um.
Speaker:ward: For post i mean.
Speaker:Evan: That would be good that maybe do a break one yeah.
Speaker:ward: We could do a break breakdown on their whole background and i'm gonna say like
Speaker:ward: kind of a typical leftist organization you know that makeup like it's just saying.
Speaker:Evan: Well i also love when andor is when they're
Speaker:Evan: doing the marching and he specifically calls out the fact
Speaker:Evan: that like the left-handed guy has to be on the other side of things like that's something
Speaker:Evan: i think like when they saw that almost they're
Speaker:Evan: all like shit this guy actually but we would
Speaker:Evan: have been fucked if you weren't here yeah yeah like he's
Speaker:Evan: clearly he can memorize like plans overnight like
Speaker:Evan: they literally made him spend like one night
Speaker:Evan: remembering a plan that they had spent six months or a
Speaker:Evan: year or something planning and he just is like boom i got it you
Speaker:Evan: know this guy is clearly uh has his shit together and so
Speaker:Evan: kind of like wall we don't need to maybe go into all the like the
Speaker:Evan: failure of them trying to capture andor and the
Speaker:Evan: you know all of that necessarily but once he is on
Speaker:Evan: the planet that there that we talked about before which is
Speaker:Evan: uh alda alda aldani aldani okay
Speaker:Evan: it's just the way that's spelled has me uh has the
Speaker:Evan: h in there the aldani so anyway we have
Speaker:Evan: like the we have them all in aldani they have them kind of we sort
Speaker:Evan: of constantly have things happening on two different planets at one time so
Speaker:Evan: at this point now he's left ferricks we have aldani and now we have the stuff
Speaker:Evan: that's happening on coruscant And I think it's worth talking about sort of the
Speaker:Evan: now the organization of there where we have this woman who is a member of Congress
Speaker:Evan: who's sort of like you could call her maybe a senator,
Speaker:Evan: a senator. Right. So is she like AOC?
Speaker:Evan: But like if AOC was like cool and working for the revolutionaries,
Speaker:Evan: because she's like a progressive politician, right?
Speaker:Evan: Like she's clearly talking about trying to help trade routes and get A to people and very much.
Speaker:Evan: But then she's also spending money for the revolution. So like that can't be. overlooked.
Speaker:ward: Trying to spend money.
Speaker:bill: I would not compare her to A.R.C.E.
Speaker:Evan: I was just being a jackass.
Speaker:bill: Because that would be insulting to her character.
Speaker:ward: I mean, there's movies out that let us know what Mon Mothma's doing and eventually does.
Speaker:bill: She is spending money. What she is trying to do at the point we need her is
Speaker:bill: cover up what she has already spent and spend more.
Speaker:bill: She's not, it's not that she hasn't been able to spend money.
Speaker:bill: She has already been funding the revolution.
Speaker:ward: Well, it got all locked up.
Speaker:bill: Right. It got locked up. And yeah, like, and now she needs to cover up what she already said.
Speaker:Evan: Like yeah she.
Speaker:bill: Is there you go you know what there you go in reality you know in the real world
Speaker:bill: and i'm not including aoc in it.
Speaker:Evan: I know i was just being an ass about it i believe.
Speaker:bill: Aoc has been an opposite day one fucking before she was in there she was she put there for a reason.
Speaker:Evan: Here's my like counter argument to that she's funding it so that's she's been funding it so but.
Speaker:bill: That's what i'm saying it's the most.
Speaker:ward: Liberal facade i will give you the liberal facade is the most liberal thing
Speaker:ward: but like i'm still gonna go with mine for like the inherent.
Speaker:Evan: But when she joined when she became a politician she likely wasn't at that point
Speaker:Evan: funding the revolution probably right do you think she was recruited we don't
Speaker:Evan: ever really know i don't think like do you think she was recruited and joined
Speaker:Evan: as an op but on the revolution side i.
Speaker:bill: Don't know because she it is well we would have to go past our point yeah we'd.
Speaker:Evan: Have to reference.
Speaker:ward: Something past episode six i know what you're.
Speaker:Evan: Talking about let's go back more than likely.
Speaker:ward: She was recruited though.
Speaker:Evan: Yes okay so we'll we'll uh we'll scratch that you'll you'll you'll you'll know
Speaker:Evan: this by who well yes and so the you gotta get.
Speaker:ward: Them back to the second one evan come on.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah yeah okay that's fair Podcast and one-on-one.
Speaker:ward: Let's do this.
Speaker:bill: I think Mon Motha's character is important from the perspective of,
Speaker:bill: because she gives us an inside view of mechanisms of the Empire and how it gives,
Speaker:bill: it hand waves bourgeoisie.
Speaker:bill: It presents a facade of it for specific classes of people.
Speaker:ward: Yeah, because, I mean, you have all the people at, like, the dinner party,
Speaker:ward: like, those fancy Coruscant dinner parties just talking about politics.
Speaker:ward: I mean, while we see elsewhere in the galaxy the reality of those policies and those politics.
Speaker:Evan: Exactly. They do a really good job of, like, showing those two sides.
Speaker:ward: It's so great, bouncing back and forth. And, like, yeah, no,
Speaker:ward: like you're saying, Bill, Mon Mata is so important.
Speaker:ward: And I think it's so great that she is funding it because it shows that like,
Speaker:ward: hey, this is the empire's biggest, most vocal liberal critic.
Speaker:ward: And yet she has even come to terms with that's not enough. I need to do more.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah. And they even like.
Speaker:ward: God, this show's good.
Speaker:Evan: Well, so here's another thing we haven't talked about. That's sort of that's
Speaker:Evan: we talked a little bit about like the, you know, the that Mussolini kind of
Speaker:Evan: fascism where we have the combination of the state alongside of the corporations.
Speaker:Evan: But we also should talk about an interesting character.
Speaker:Evan: And I'll also talk about a quote that came from the the creator and writer about it.
Speaker:Evan: And so that is we have a whole group of people that are on Coruscant that are
Speaker:Evan: basically CIA intelligence officers collecting information about all the different sectors.
Speaker:Evan: sectors, you know, they're controlling, you know, one person controls these
Speaker:Evan: four planets, and they're looking at intelligence and how they can essentially
Speaker:Evan: stop potential revolutionary activity. And I think it's interesting talking about that.
Speaker:Evan: The character I'm referring to is Deidre Miro.
Speaker:Evan: She is sort of a imperialist security bureau, I guess, against the same idea, CIA type of thing.
Speaker:Evan: How do you think that that plays into this? Because you never really see this underlying,
Speaker:Evan: bureaucracy i guess if you will of the empire in like the other movies you get
Speaker:Evan: maybe oh you know there's people on the big ship that darth vader is on and
Speaker:Evan: they just like figured out something but this is actually by.
Speaker:ward: Darth vader because.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah like for not so this is actually showing you what that looks like i mean
Speaker:Evan: i guess in some of the other tv shows there's some of this but i find that entire
Speaker:Evan: aspect of this uh pretty cool and interesting how they show it and kind of building
Speaker:Evan: you know which will later lead to what happens in the second half of the season
Speaker:Evan: but her character is interesting.
Speaker:ward: Oh yeah no i i really enjoy like that whole aspect it's basically like the inside
Speaker:ward: the empire cia point of view it's like it's really interesting concept like
Speaker:ward: i was really surprised like seeing it for the first time i was like yeah this is great um.
Speaker:bill: This system it's about a
Speaker:bill: system not about a person you know they talk
Speaker:bill: about the emperor the the senators talk about the emperor and
Speaker:bill: pure overreach but like heidra
Speaker:bill: and her whole you
Speaker:bill: know storyline shows that this is not about orange man this is not about one
Speaker:bill: person it's about a system people populated by individuals actively seeking
Speaker:bill: to control thought movement you know and freedoms of the population if you are aware of,
Speaker:bill: you know, you can draw a parallel, go that far, and, you know,
Speaker:bill: like, actually draw a parallel, you know, to the real world, and you can,
Speaker:bill: put the pieces together like oh no it's like michael parenti says you know like
Speaker:bill: he talks about people go oh they don't care what i think oh they do that's all
Speaker:bill: they care about and that's that that's her whole job.
Speaker:Evan: And what's and so you brought you mentioned like it's not
Speaker:Evan: just orange man bad one of this brings in the two notes that i saw from like
Speaker:Evan: the creators is one one of the co-stars uh fiona shaw describes kind of like
Speaker:Evan: she plays the um marva so marva apparently referred to the show and kind of
Speaker:Evan: the themes as being like modern day, kind of in this Trumpian world.
Speaker:Evan: And Gilroy was sort of like, no, it's not meant to be that.
Speaker:Evan: It's meant to just kind of take this overarching concept. And I think that actually
Speaker:Evan: shows through very well in that it isn't just simply like, oh,
Speaker:Evan: this is about Trump and this is about this and about that.
Speaker:Evan: This is taking all of those things and putting it, as you're saying,
Speaker:Evan: like the system is the problem and it's not just like one person.
Speaker:Evan: And then the other thing that they mentioned about Miro's character,
Speaker:Evan: Deidre, His character is that they brought her in to kind of show how deep the
Speaker:Evan: Empire, the Imperial side is just, it's not just this one thing.
Speaker:Evan: He wrote, he literally, the quote is literally, we have a very,
Speaker:Evan: very, very deep dive into the Imperial side of the story.
Speaker:Evan: And I think that's what you get. And it's not the surface level.
Speaker:Evan: The same thing I said at the beginning where all the characters have this growth in it, including her.
Speaker:Evan: She sees that she has to play the game of the CIA. And it's super interesting.
Speaker:bill: Yeah. the empire the emperor is like like never like he even the the senators
Speaker:bill: like the rich people like even they like like oh you know he's the emperor they're
Speaker:bill: like you know charlie brushed him off almost it's like he's secondary they even
Speaker:bill: acknowledge in it like how almost how little important he actually has who's a way thing,
Speaker:bill: done and like the impact on people even as they rapidly fail to do anything
Speaker:bill: about it they're like yeah he's not really the problem like he's he's actually not the issue.
Speaker:ward: I mean like i guess star wars has always done like
Speaker:ward: or has done a decent job of like portraying it's
Speaker:ward: like i mean it's not like white supremacist eugenics fascism like there's minorities
Speaker:ward: there's there's not just white people in the empire like it's fascism fascism
Speaker:ward: is what's going on like whether or not you're on board it's this is what we're doing it's fascism.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah that's true and i think about like i'm just
Speaker:Evan: thinking about how they all wear their you know with the
Speaker:Evan: exception of like officers and people inside anytime they're
Speaker:Evan: going outside they're wearing their little stormtrooper white uniform
Speaker:Evan: type of deal thing i don't know just you mentioned they're not like white supremacists
Speaker:Evan: but they're human supremacists but i think that's a a good point and the uh
Speaker:Evan: the like the bureaucracy too is like very thick though where at any moment like
Speaker:Evan: you have that security force on uh on the um,
Speaker:Evan: on ferricks and then they take over the
Speaker:Evan: empire is like you know fuck off you guys sucked at doing
Speaker:Evan: this we're gonna now take over and it's it's it just shows too that they have
Speaker:Evan: the ability to muscle the way through even like giant corporations or I guess
Speaker:Evan: you don't really know how big this security corporation is and could just be
Speaker:Evan: operating on this one planet but they're able to just bend to their will because it.
Speaker:ward: Seems like most almost all the corporations are contracted to the empire.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah something like that they're gonna profit in some way still.
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Speaker:Evan: I was going to bring up one of the characters as part of the heist on Aldani,
Speaker:Evan: but I'm wondering if I want to wait a little bit to the second one where we dive into them.
Speaker:Evan: But I'm going to ask this question anyway, and I'm actually going to bring this
Speaker:Evan: up because this is actually what led to me thinking about this show to do as
Speaker:Evan: an episode. So I was going to do this episode like over a year ago.
Speaker:Evan: It's been a long time since the first season came out. was like a long delay
Speaker:Evan: because of the writer's strike and all these different things.
Speaker:Evan: But there is an article that came out about the showrunner claiming that this
Speaker:Evan: show is based loosely around Stalin and Lenin's actual bank heist or heist to
Speaker:Evan: fund the revolution in 1907.
Speaker:Evan: And so that leads me to the question of is, if that is the case,
Speaker:Evan: who do you think is, you know, the Lenin and the stalin characters in this if
Speaker:Evan: there is one this is like this is like a stupid question but i'm gonna ask it
Speaker:Evan: anyway is is luthan lenin.
Speaker:bill: I think so.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah he's got to be right isn't it starts yeah l yeah l l and l and i rest my god yeah.
Speaker:ward: Got it done voyard yeah do we need to explain i thought you had ears why are you listening.
Speaker:Evan: To this podcast all right.
Speaker:bill: Yeah i mean i think just from like though i mean i don't want to i don't want
Speaker:bill: to jump ahead but you know just on the notes here is you know you mentioned
Speaker:bill: nevic i know that's the part i.
Speaker:Evan: Didn't want to get to but you can i mean no.
Speaker:ward: No that's no that's within.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah yeah.
Speaker:bill: It happens it happens all within.
Speaker:ward: Six the first six.
Speaker:bill: I think i i think that i mean literally nevic's dead.
Speaker:ward: At the end of six that's true yeah.
Speaker:bill: So you're never saying it weird to say you know who is lenin i think luthan
Speaker:bill: and nemec together are the different aspects.
Speaker:Evan: Of it the the the force and then the ideas combined together.
Speaker:bill: Yeah like i don't think i don't think nemec is carl marx.
Speaker:Evan: I know that that was more because.
Speaker:ward: He wrote a manifesto.
Speaker:bill: Yeah lawyered wow like he did not write you know like he wrote a a manifesto
Speaker:bill: on struggle and revolution.
Speaker:ward: Yeah, charting the,
Speaker:ward: thought of political consciousness and this one navigates the stars.
Speaker:bill: You know, I don't I think together the two of them would represent life.
Speaker:Evan: I think it's called the trail of political consciousness.
Speaker:ward: Yeah, trail of political consciousness. Yeah, because I mean,
Speaker:ward: you got even Shitty Skeen who's like, dude, this kid is the whole reason we're here.
Speaker:ward: We're doing all this. Granted, he doesn't know about Luthan. But,
Speaker:ward: Like, even as shitty as he was and how he wanted to bail on the whole fucking
Speaker:ward: thing, he was in that moment willing to say, like, hey, this kid is the whole reason we're here.
Speaker:bill: I did think that was a weird character.
Speaker:ward: Yeah, Skeen was a really weird character turn once they got to the doctor.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah.
Speaker:bill: That was a weird turn.
Speaker:ward: I didn't appreciate it.
Speaker:bill: Neither did I.
Speaker:ward: I wanted more from him. I was like, this guy's got it. Like, let's do this shit.
Speaker:bill: He's a good actor. he's good and stuff i like him and stuff but like just in
Speaker:bill: general like it seemed a weird character trying like i feel like it was done
Speaker:bill: just to further cast's story and i feel it was disservice yeah.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah i mean i think that they're like they're what
Speaker:Evan: they kind of give like the little insights you get about him
Speaker:Evan: which is very limited all the people on the plan on the like in the
Speaker:Evan: heist crew are not exactly all very open
Speaker:Evan: with their information because they don't want people to know
Speaker:Evan: about them which actually leads me to a couple like of the scenes
Speaker:Evan: with nemec the first one is when he was telling him about the
Speaker:Evan: manifesto and he says i haven't titled yet
Speaker:Evan: i've been waiting it's a work in progress and i know there's a great deal left
Speaker:Evan: to say i mean look right here fresh inspiration two seemingly random objects
Speaker:Evan: yeah this charts an astral path and this maps the trail of political conscience
Speaker:Evan: both systems based on truth both navigating towards clear and achievable outcomes
Speaker:Evan: and then right after that they
Speaker:Evan: ask him like what he believes And Andor says, I know what I'm against.
Speaker:Evan: Everything else will have to wait. And then he says, you're my ideal reader.
Speaker:Evan: So like, it's very clear he's writing this, this manifesto and Andor fits into
Speaker:Evan: what he wants because he has, I guess you could say he has class consciousness,
Speaker:Evan: but he doesn't really understand how to fight his enemy or like.
Speaker:ward: He's still operating on an individualist mindset and looking for survival.
Speaker:Evan: Which is exactly what Luthan tells him right on the ship. when they're coming
Speaker:Evan: over. He's like, you're thinking small.
Speaker:ward: Yeah.
Speaker:Evan: You're thinking of this one object.
Speaker:ward: Let's fight him for real. Yeah.
Speaker:ward: it's like because let's look at it let's look at it for real whether you're
Speaker:ward: going to do it with me or do it on your own you're going to die fighting these
Speaker:ward: motherfuckers you're going to die fighting these sons of bitches whether it's
Speaker:ward: with me or without don't you want to give it your all yeah like luther knew and.
Speaker:bill: Like from an organizational standpoint it's like you're going to die one or the other.
Speaker:Evan: Which i think is uh actually it
Speaker:Evan: makes the show less liberal because a more liberal or
Speaker:Evan: maybe or critiquing of it because you see people
Speaker:Evan: who are I guess you could say like baby leftists or progressives that
Speaker:Evan: say like they will talk about oh capitalism is bad or
Speaker:Evan: you know the system is bad but then rather than saying
Speaker:Evan: like oh well we need an entire new citizen they're
Speaker:Evan: like well we could like do these little fixes and like fix
Speaker:Evan: it right like they're they're not thinking of the the
Speaker:Evan: whole I don't think Andor is like that far behind in the sense that
Speaker:Evan: he clearly is committing robberies and doing
Speaker:Evan: all these things to try and fight against the
Speaker:Evan: people who killed his parents and did all his awful things like he has a a real
Speaker:Evan: gripe but i think uh it's very clear they're showing the listener like us the
Speaker:Evan: watcher that the viewers that there is something evil beyond this and they actually
Speaker:Evan: are trying to figure out a way to both fight it and then replace it.
Speaker:bill: Which is its biggest flaw because it is never stated what Wilbur plays it.
Speaker:Evan: No show or movie like ever does. Like that's the flaw.
Speaker:ward: I mean, to some credit, it takes place in a galaxy far, far away long, long ago.
Speaker:ward: So maybe they didn't have the word communism or Marxist-Leninism.
Speaker:ward: But also against the show, they had completely unmodified AK-47s.
Speaker:ward: Which, then again, for the show.
Speaker:bill: They had AK-47s.
Speaker:ward: Makes me feel like you know the the design
Speaker:ward: of the ak-47 is just so ideal and
Speaker:ward: not just spans time but galaxies and so that you know if you were like a poor
Speaker:ward: farmer peasant anywhere in a backward galaxy but you needed a reliable slug
Speaker:ward: thrower ak-47s there for you buddy well.
Speaker:Evan: Skein gets shot with like that other cool pistol it's called um i just looked
Speaker:Evan: it up i had like a list of like the like the weapons like the bw 20 by briar
Speaker:Evan: pistol which is like this.
Speaker:bill: Pistol is awesome.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah it's dope.
Speaker:ward: Yeah it's sick,
Speaker:ward: But I like that there's just, like, plain, unmodified, underbarrel AK-47s.
Speaker:Evan: So, are you saying that the revolutionary group is the USSR? It's the Soviet Union?
Speaker:ward: I mean, I just like the idea that the blueprint and design of the AK.
Speaker:ward: I'm a gun guy. I like guns a lot. That's, like, my biggest-ism.
Speaker:ward: I just like the idea that the design spans galaxies, that you need a reliable slug, though?
Speaker:ward: Here you go. You can make this motherfucker out of stamps, sheet metal, and it'll work for you.
Speaker:Evan: I mean, it was developed by the Soviets. I mean, clearly that's the,
Speaker:Evan: you know, the... Is it different?
Speaker:ward: He was a tractor maker.
Speaker:bill: Yeah.
Speaker:ward: Like, he designed...
Speaker:Evan: Kalashnikov, right?
Speaker:ward: Kalashnikov. Yeah, he made tractors and farm equipment. Then he designed the
Speaker:ward: AK-47. He got asked why, and he's like, if it wasn't for the fascists, I wouldn't have made it.
Speaker:bill: Yeah.
Speaker:Evan: That's fucking badass.
Speaker:bill: He just wanted to make fucking tractors.
Speaker:ward: That's all he wanted to do.
Speaker:Evan: He's like, I can't kill fascists with fucking tractors. Yeah. Like, maybe a couple.
Speaker:ward: You can, but it's hard.
Speaker:bill: It takes a while.
Speaker:Evan: They got really close to you.
Speaker:bill: They go stand still. They run around. You got to fucking... And tractors don't move fast.
Speaker:ward: Like, Leprechaun made it easy because he, like, tranced the guy to walk into
Speaker:ward: one. But, like, you don't got those powers in regular real life. You know what I mean?
Speaker:bill: It was a steamroller.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah, and look, they didn't have the force yet. in this or like there's no one
Speaker:Evan: in this that had the force they couldn't just stand there while we tractor you force.
Speaker:ward: What don't wash it i don't need it you want shows great.
Speaker:Evan: So i was watching i've recommended
Speaker:Evan: this show to a lot of people like before they had watched it
Speaker:Evan: a lot of them had watched the first episode or half of like it's kind
Speaker:Evan: of slow like this isn't that good and i'm like you just got to keep
Speaker:Evan: watching i think by episode three it gets
Speaker:Evan: like really good even though i don't agree that the first two episodes are that
Speaker:Evan: slow honestly but when you get to like by episodes five and six it's pretty
Speaker:Evan: incredible how it just uh immediately goes from like a five to an eleven like
Speaker:Evan: the entire heist is just awesome and it uh i.
Speaker:ward: Mean how is episode one slow he's literally on the run from the fucking law
Speaker:ward: from the jump street like i don't.
Speaker:bill: Know i found it slow in the first one and dark when like that like beginning
Speaker:bill: of the first episode it was dark and slow i actually i came back to andor i
Speaker:bill: did not continue i enjoyed it when i first came out.
Speaker:ward: Evan do you share those sentiments.
Speaker:Evan: So i did not i watched the first two episodes so i think i watched did it did
Speaker:Evan: it come out in a way that we're like you have to wait each week i don't i don't
Speaker:Evan: think i watched it like right it did okay so i don't think i watched it,
Speaker:Evan: I think I maybe watched the first three.
Speaker:ward: I waited until it all came out and then I watched all of it.
Speaker:Evan: I watched a couple episodes in a row, like two or three.
Speaker:ward: All right, cool. That's all I needed. So, Evan, me and you can feel cool about
Speaker:ward: having good opinions about Andor, while Bill has terrible opinions about Andor.
Speaker:ward: And then, Bill, me and you are cool about Blade Runner 2049,
Speaker:ward: because Evan's so lame for some reason.
Speaker:bill: He hates feeling over.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah.
Speaker:ward: Okay, like, I kind of get that, but, like, it's Blade Runner 2049. It's good stuff.
Speaker:Evan: I will not comment on this.
Speaker:ward: It's primo shit.
Speaker:bill: Listen, I redeemed, I came around big time.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah, that's fair. Here's another, like, I'm curious what you think the past is.
Speaker:Evan: How do you think it is that Luton comes to have this, like, very strange sort
Speaker:Evan: of, he obviously has his two personas because he has to blend into this rich society.
Speaker:Evan: Oh, he has this weird store that just sells like antiquities,
Speaker:Evan: which also seems kind of fucked up that he's selling sort of he has to do it
Speaker:Evan: like it's his cover. I get it.
Speaker:ward: Well, I mean, well, you got to think about it this way is with Luton's position
Speaker:ward: in society with everything that he has currently.
Speaker:ward: You think he got that as a cover for what he's doing? To me,
Speaker:ward: that is what his life was.
Speaker:Evan: Okay. That makes a lot worse.
Speaker:bill: I think that's radical.
Speaker:ward: I think it's so beautiful, the scene of him coming back to Coruscant on his
Speaker:ward: ship, where he's got to put back on the facade.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah.
Speaker:ward: Which, the facade being the person who he used to be, who he no longer is anymore.
Speaker:ward: Because he's now a revolutionary.
Speaker:Evan: Oh, so- here's a theory. What if when to me.
Speaker:ward: That was absolutely beautiful. You can even see him like practicing his mannerisms.
Speaker:ward: As soon as he's got all his clothes and jewelry and accoutrement on,
Speaker:ward: he's like practicing his mannerisms.
Speaker:ward: And you can see even in his face, it fucking pains him that he has to come back
Speaker:ward: to this instead of do what he needs to do.
Speaker:bill: That is a hell of a scene.
Speaker:ward: It's beautiful. It's a fucking masterpiece.
Speaker:bill: Yeah, seriously.
Speaker:Evan: What if he, during his, based on what you're saying, which makes a lot of sense that that was his job.
Speaker:Evan: What if he acquired things from Qunari and then like looked into it and is like,
Speaker:Evan: shit, like the empire fucking destroyed this planet.
Speaker:Evan: And then that's how he comes across Andor doing his research on Qunari.
Speaker:Evan: And then that's kind of leads him down the path.
Speaker:ward: I don't think that's how he comes across Andor.
Speaker:Evan: No.
Speaker:ward: Oh man god i want to do tiny spoiler
Speaker:ward: outside the episode but like
Speaker:ward: his assistant like we learned that his assistant does most of the recruiting
Speaker:ward: like she recruited several members i mean it's entirely possible she's the one
Speaker:ward: who radicalized them working at this hell exactly like you're saying,
Speaker:ward: you study history long enough, working as his assistant,
Speaker:ward: not benefiting from the wealth herself directly.
Speaker:Evan: That's true.
Speaker:ward: That's a possibility.
Speaker:Evan: He's a worker. I mean, he might be like, he's still a worker,
Speaker:Evan: but he's, uh, you know, the capitalist in a very, not a real way,
Speaker:Evan: more like just a business owner, but you know what I mean?
Speaker:bill: He's, he's petite bourgeois.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah. But if he has this person working for him, like she's getting paid probably,
Speaker:Evan: you know, less, she's not, she's also could be the one studying and realizing
Speaker:Evan: all of these things getting class conscious and,
Speaker:Evan: slowly drips it to him. I don't know.
Speaker:bill: I think it's really kind of beautiful, but also bittersweet.
Speaker:ward: Absolutely.
Speaker:Evan: He might as well learn the second half. Star Wars universe.
Speaker:bill: Just on so many levels. Just so complicated, but beautiful and sad.
Speaker:ward: Especially in the second half. Definitely watch that as well and then come back
Speaker:ward: to this podcast as we'll be covering that as well.
Speaker:Evan: We will. And then once you've watched the entire 12 episodes,
Speaker:Evan: listened to this, two episodes of this, then you'll be primed for season two, which...
Speaker:Evan: We all know it's going to be fucking awesome. I did not even watch the little
Speaker:Evan: teaser trailer. I'm like, I'm not going to watch it.
Speaker:ward: Dude, that was just a screenshot that I sent you.
Speaker:Evan: I know, I know.
Speaker:bill: By the way.
Speaker:ward: I'm not watching that. Yeah, no, I know. He was so cool.
Speaker:bill: He's like, I'm not watching that. I'm like, it's not even a trailer.
Speaker:ward: It's not even a video, dude. I screenshotted it purposefully.
Speaker:ward: I don't watch trailers. I have admitted this so many times. I don't watch trailers
Speaker:ward: either. I hate watching trailers.
Speaker:bill: It was like as i scrolled on twitter i.
Speaker:ward: Took this screenshot and then kept scrolling because i thought it was funny all right oh yeah.
Speaker:bill: I'm not watching that i'm not watching it someone uh it's.
Speaker:ward: A picture but okay the.
Speaker:Evan: Only the only time you i'll watch a trailer is like when you're in a booth here
Speaker:Evan: and there's like nothing you can do you're like i guess i could just like close my.
Speaker:ward: Oh no i look at my phone i zone completely into my phone and actually try to
Speaker:ward: show up like like i try to time it like as like the last trailer i show up a little late oh.
Speaker:bill: Yeah i really don't.
Speaker:ward: Like watching trailers.
Speaker:bill: I love trailers i watch trailers uh but i have not watched all right bill's got bad,
Speaker:bill: opinions on trailers speaking of
Speaker:bill: trailers though uh the just you know a little tidbit for you know those of you
Speaker:bill: who hate trailers um four movies don't have trailers or at least non-shot two
Speaker:bill: no trailer we got there like on the nick of time and jackie's like oh we'll
Speaker:bill: have plenty of time trailers and she like texts me while i'm like in the bed
Speaker:bill: but it's starting there's no trailers oh.
Speaker:Evan: That's wonderful yeah it's it's the thing about like especially a show where
Speaker:Evan: they do a trailer they're gonna have little bits from any of the 12 episodes or the 12.
Speaker:bill: Episodes of.
Speaker:Evan: The season you don't want to like even i understand.
Speaker:bill: I don't like show trailers.
Speaker:Evan: Right because it's well even movie trailers where they like half the time they
Speaker:Evan: give away like 60 of the movie in that two and a half minutes you're like fuck you know so.
Speaker:bill: Because i will watch plenty of movies and most of them i don't care about they're
Speaker:bill: not important or special in any way shape or form but like some movies that are like,
Speaker:bill: like things I actually care about, like movies made by a certain someone about
Speaker:bill: like, you know, a movie on a planet.
Speaker:bill: It's like desert shit. Like, you know, that one, I won't watch that trailer,
Speaker:bill: despite having read the books multiple times, but you know, the ultimate in
Speaker:bill: spoilers, but you know, Oh.
Speaker:ward: It's killing me knowing there's like a Bong Joon-ho film coming out soon.
Speaker:ward: And like big fan, but like, I can't, I don't watch trailers. I can't do it.
Speaker:Evan: I read the book.
Speaker:ward: I'm not going to look it up.
Speaker:Evan: So i i read the book for it i i cannot wait the book.
Speaker:ward: Is see i don't even know what the book is like i don't even know that much like
Speaker:ward: i just know it's bong june ho like that's and that's got me excited enough as is it's.
Speaker:Evan: Gonna be it's gonna be really funny it's gonna be it's gonna be awesome.
Speaker:ward: Yeah until just like having read the book and.
Speaker:Evan: Knowing i won't say anything else i mean i'm not describing it.
Speaker:ward: What's the what's the book.
Speaker:Evan: It's just called mickey seven.
Speaker:ward: Okay oh.
Speaker:bill: That oh i didn't i.
Speaker:ward: Don't even know it's very funny i don't perfect perfect.
Speaker:Evan: Casting too one thing i wouldn't even mention is there's so you think of a show
Speaker:Evan: like this like isn't funny there is lots of things that are broken up to make
Speaker:Evan: it funny at times we're not just like it's constantly serious.
Speaker:ward: Serial moving having to move back in with
Speaker:ward: his mom after losing his job because he didn't listen
Speaker:ward: to his fucking boss from the get-go
Speaker:ward: you know what i mean the boss told him hey you know
Speaker:ward: write this up as an accident dude this like dude they
Speaker:ward: fucked up you don't call uncle harlow we
Speaker:ward: gotta call uncle harlow uncle harlow will know what
Speaker:ward: to do gotta kiss his ring first yeah but
Speaker:ward: like i love that like that's his like initial arc
Speaker:ward: that we get for the first half of the season you know
Speaker:ward: like he's this he's this aspirational fascist
Speaker:ward: bureaucrat who like goes out of the way to get his fucking
Speaker:ward: uniform tailored with additional piping and whatnot
Speaker:ward: and he fucking
Speaker:ward: doesn't listen to literally common sense fucking
Speaker:ward: advice from the dude who's actually been doing this so much
Speaker:ward: fucking longer than him even though he's also
Speaker:ward: a cop piece of shit but at least
Speaker:ward: he's not aspirational wanting to fucking climb the imperial fascist ladder piece
Speaker:ward: of shit he's like i'm just trying to maintain my position but he's got some
Speaker:ward: real understanding like no these dudes fucked up they're on fucking job they
Speaker:ward: shouldn't have been in the establishment they were drinking what they were,
Speaker:ward: like no they fucked up call it up an accident right of today but he wouldn't
Speaker:ward: listen wanted to pursue it and then has to go live with his mom it's great.
Speaker:bill: Also like they came to like he came to that because again it's material condition,
Speaker:bill: When you, when you have a branch, you have a point, you know,
Speaker:bill: it's like you go fascism and they're both predicated on material conditions
Speaker:bill: and the desire to better material conditions.
Speaker:bill: And you have options and it's like some people fall came from a place where
Speaker:bill: apparently all they eat three meal a day is fucking cereal and blue milk.
Speaker:ward: Which I mean, looking at that is a lot better than like most of Ferrix.
Speaker:Evan: Right. So one thing I was going to mention about it too, that's interesting that,
Speaker:Evan: which is like a other, that you brought up of like the material conditions is
Speaker:Evan: in a normal equitable system, you know, assuming he's not like this terrible
Speaker:Evan: security guard doing nefarious and evil shit.
Speaker:Evan: Imagine he just has some like middle level job and he loses it.
Speaker:Evan: He can't even like fall back.
Speaker:Evan: There's like no social safety net in the empire either. Right. You lose your job.
Speaker:ward: He immediately had to move in with mom. Immediately had to move in with mom.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah.
Speaker:ward: Like he might be, he might be an aspirational fascist, but he's still due to
Speaker:ward: the nature of his condition, still a prisoner of the system because he's doesn't
Speaker:ward: own any means of production.
Speaker:ward: He's not in some elite position where he's untouchable.
Speaker:ward: He immediately lost his fucking job. Didn't even get to read the report. Oh fuck.
Speaker:ward: um you know like got told immediately
Speaker:ward: like you're done you're let go like you're gone had to move back in with mom
Speaker:ward: had to rely on uncle harlow to get like you know but even though he still supports
Speaker:ward: it he's still within the confines even though he might be fully for it he's
Speaker:ward: still within the confines.
Speaker:Evan: In episode two of this podcast, we will be drinking blue milk together.
Speaker:Evan: Whatever animal that comes from, I don't know exactly.
Speaker:ward: We're going to find it, and we're going to get some blue milk.
Speaker:bill: We're going to get it.
Speaker:Evan: It's just milk that's been sweetened with Froot Loops.
Speaker:Evan: They sweeten it, and then they put it into a container, and then they use it
Speaker:Evan: again for milk. It's like recycled milk.
Speaker:ward: It's probably recycled milk, yeah. Knowing the Empire, they're not giving out
Speaker:ward: the good stuff to lower classes.
Speaker:bill: Yeah, that's the recycled milk from the upper classes.
Speaker:Evan: All right, so I have the answer. It's blue milk, also known as Bantha milk.
Speaker:Evan: It is because it comes from female Banthas.
Speaker:ward: I mean, yeah, we could be technical about it, I guess.
Speaker:Evan: I have to throw in these. I don't get too much hate mail from the Star Wars fans.
Speaker:bill: Yeah.
Speaker:Evan: That's for you.
Speaker:bill: He's already going to get prepared.
Speaker:ward: Oh, yeah, he's getting so much.
Speaker:Evan: Oh, man. Yeah,
Speaker:Evan: but we will touch on all the characters that we did not talk about,
Speaker:Evan: and we will do a deep dive, I think, into the crew of the heist,
Speaker:Evan: because I think that's going to be... We didn't even talk about some of the ones on there.
Speaker:ward: Yeah, we'll get a little bit more of their backgrounds, and so we can actually
Speaker:ward: delve into all the aspects, because I'm telling you, it's a typical leftist
Speaker:ward: work, you know? The makeup.
Speaker:Evan: It really is. It really is. And, uh, yeah.
Speaker:Evan: So if, if you're, if you're listening to this, you, you have time,
Speaker:Evan: there is time for you to watch episodes seven through 12.
Speaker:Evan: In fact, why are you not watching it right now? Yeah.
Speaker:ward: Go back and watch, like, if you haven't watched it, watch one through six and listen to this.
Speaker:ward: So if you're listening to this, then, you know, as soon as this is done,
Speaker:ward: which is like, now you gotta watch seven through 12.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah, that is, that's correct.
Speaker:ward: Everyone out there, And then wait like we are doing for season two.
Speaker:bill: And then watch Rogue One.
Speaker:ward: Oh, yeah, you should do that.
Speaker:bill: And then you're done. You don't need to watch it anymore.
Speaker:ward: Yeah. Which I got. We got to talk about an inconsistency in episode two of this
Speaker:ward: between Rogue One and this.
Speaker:Evan: I think I know what you're going to say. We'll save that.
Speaker:ward: Okay.
Speaker:Evan: We might even have to do an episode on Rogue One, perhaps.
Speaker:ward: I mean, he could have been lying, but whatever.
Speaker:ward: He's easily passed it off as lying.
Speaker:Evan: But we will leave it there. uh bill and
Speaker:Evan: ward we will and i will return in a very near future to discuss and or episodes
Speaker:Evan: seven through twelve of season one you'll have to sit on the edge of your seat
Speaker:Evan: while you while you wait for that um but bill and ward thank you again for uh
Speaker:Evan: gracing left of the projector with your presence thank.
Speaker:ward: You for having us.
Speaker:Evan: Of course and um stop listening right now and go uh watch Andor watch.
Speaker:ward: Yeah, go watch.
Speaker:Evan: If you listen to this right now, it means you are not watching Andor right now.
Speaker:bill: Yeah, there's nothing else past this. Do what we said. There's no more.
Speaker:Evan: I'm going to cut this off mid-length.
Speaker:ward: Andor and Rogue One, do it if you wanted to watch the rest.
