Yes, we have T.V. The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power, season 2 is here and so are we. I'm back with Nick, from The Intervention podcast for some LOTR content. We reflect on our impressions of the first season and discuss character arcs in the second season, particularly Galadriel and ****, exploring the moral complexities of their roles.
We highlight the impressive production values and the political intrigue surrounding Numenor, while also analyzing the series' balance between familiar tropes and new storytelling. As we speculate on future developments, we delve into themes of power and moral choices that permeate the narrative, enriching our experience as viewers.
The Intervention podcast:
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Evan Intro: Hello and welcome to Left of the Projector. I'm your host Evan,
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Evan Intro: back again with another film discussion from the left.
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Evan Intro: You can follow and listen to the show on all platforms at leftoftheprojectorpod.
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Evan Intro: It would be greatly appreciated if you could go there, subscribe,
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Evan Intro: and leave a review and a rating.
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Evan Intro: You know, all those algorithm type things.
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Evan Intro: You can also support the show at patreon.com slash leftoftheprojectorpod.
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Evan Intro: This week we dive into, not a movie, but television. My friend Nick from The
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Evan Intro: Intervention Podcast joins me for another Lord of the Rings content episode.
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Evan Intro: His last time on was for the Hobbit trilogy.
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Evan Intro: This time we are discussing episodes one through three of the second season
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Evan Intro: of The Rings of Power, which you can watch on Amazon or perhaps in other ways. Wink, wink.
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Evan Intro: So we decided to dive into the season two, talk about a couple episodes.
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Evan Intro: We'll probably do another episode recapping and discussing episodes four through
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Evan Intro: seven, and then probably one final episode discussing the finale.
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Evan Intro: So for anyone who doesn't know, this is the second season of this Amazon show,
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Evan Intro: bringing us back to the second age of Middle Earth.
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Evan Intro: So I hope you enjoy this deviation from the norm where we talk about TV with Nick.
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Evan Intro: Sit back in your seats, get something to eat, watch this movie,
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Evan Intro: don't look the kid you see.
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Evan: Thank you.
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Evan: All right, well, this week on the show, we're doing something a little bit different.
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Evan: We are going to talk about a TV show for only the second time ever.
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Evan: And back on the show for more Lord of the Rings content, I have Nick from Intervention
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Evan: Podcast. Thanks for coming on, Nick.
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Nick: Yeah, pulling me out of retirement to talk about the Lord of the Rings.
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Nick: No, I'm just joking. I don't think I'm retired from the podcast yet,
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Nick: but we haven't recorded in a while. So hope y'all are doing well.
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Evan: Well, that's okay. I mean, the last time I think, I don't even remember the
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Evan: last time we had recorded, but we had, you can go back and listen to three episodes
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Evan: on Lord of the Rings, which Nick was not on, but we did talk about the lesser trilogy, The Hobbit.
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Evan: But you mentioned, you asked me if I'd seen the new season yet,
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Evan: because it was just dropping.
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Evan: And I thought, well, you know, maybe we should come on and give our gripes about
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Evan: the Lord Lord of the Rings, Rings of Power, which is in its second season,
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Evan: just came out last week on the Jeff Bezos platform.
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Evan: But what did you think, I guess before we talk about season two,
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Evan: what did you think about the first season?
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Evan: I guess generally, I mean, you can also mention the things, the issues you have
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Evan: with it, but like as a show, like, I mean, what do you think?
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Nick: Yeah, I mean, generally positive, I guess is the way. And I really,
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Nick: I think I had to get myself in the frame of mind to view it that way.
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Nick: Cause like, as you know, I'm like a lore freak. Like it's the probably the nerdiest part about me.
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Nick: Um said I love Lord of the Rings and I've read like the Silmarillion a bunch
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Nick: of times I think I probably said that on the Hobbit episode,
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Nick: So I think once I was able to kind of dissociate that part of my personality
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Nick: and just sit down and just actually try to enjoy the show for what it was like,
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Nick: there's still cringy shit about it and problems that I have with it.
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Nick: But like, it's generally enjoyable.
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Nick: You know what I mean? And so I think I'm enjoying this season a little bit more
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Nick: because I'm coming in with that same kind of mindset of like,
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Nick: I'm not expecting too, too much in terms of adherence to the lore.
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Nick: And I get there needs to be changes for TV to make it actually viewable and
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Nick: stuff, but I'm not letting those
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Nick: things really agitate me unless they're particularly egregious, I think.
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Evan: Yeah. I mean, I think for anyone, even whether you're just a Lord of the Rings
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Evan: novice, you just like TV show, you like fantasy, it has something to be said
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Evan: about the production value.
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Evan: I mean, they spent, I think, something like $60 million per episode on the first
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Evan: season. I don't even know how much the second season, but a lot of money.
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Evan: A lot of money went into this. And you you can see that because it looks pretty
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Evan: good as far as just a visual show.
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Evan: And it's funny, I felt the same way when I watched the first season,
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Evan: the first couple episodes, I'm like, I don't know, this is kind of weird.
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Evan: And then I just thought, you know what, if I just can enjoy this as a fantasy
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Evan: TV show that happens to include like really cool characters from the Tolkien
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Evan: universe, I guess, can that just be good enough for me? And I think so, right?
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Nick: Yeah. I mean, I think that's the best way to do it. Don't get too bogged down in it.
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Nick: I mean, And you can if you want, but I've just made that decision to try to
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Nick: enjoy it and like actually carve out like a little bit of space and like,
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Nick: especially with all the shit going on right now, like,
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Nick: you know, and I don't want to get into that too much, but like,
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Nick: you know, I just want to have one little space, you know, uh,
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Nick: just chill i guess.
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Evan: Yeah well i mean that's the thing well i mean it does seem like we're
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Evan: entering like a new era of lord of the rings content
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Evan: we have this tv show there's going to be a new animated movie the end of this
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Evan: year and then another movie i think in 2026 the new hobbit not a hobbit the
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Evan: new um gollum movie which i don't know i mean i'm i'm glad that that's that
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Evan: i'm more excited for because peter jackson's involved in it whereas this is
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Evan: just kind of like a separate thing but But yeah,
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Evan: I mean, for anyone who hasn't watched this first season,
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Evan: there will be, you know, things we'll talk about in season two,
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Evan: episodes one through three, which have aired as I'm airing this.
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Evan: I'll be releasing this pretty soon after this. So I don't think the fourth episode will come out yet.
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Evan: But in the first season, again, if you don't know the, you know,
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Evan: it's essentially taking you back to the beginning of the second age.
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Evan: We have the defeat of Morgoth. And then we kind of, you know,
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Evan: see kind of how things go from there.
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Evan: We get a few different perspectives we have uh numenor we
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Evan: have the elves we have the what
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Evan: we learned at the end of season one is gandalf you know coming back but you
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Evan: know unaware of who he is and all these different the hobbits who are called
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Evan: what do they call them in this the the harfoots the harfoots yeah sorry yeah
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Evan: i'm gonna have to defer to you on more of the uh very specifics because i'm
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Evan: gonna i thought i was gonna.
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Nick: Blink because that's like a show thing it sounds Sounds like it's like a Hobbit
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Nick: family name or something, but maybe that's their clan. I'm not sure.
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Evan: Right. Yeah. That's actually, yeah. We'll try not to get bogged down too much,
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Evan: but you feel free to interject any, uh, bit of failures on there on the lore of this show,
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Evan: because I've only read the similar really in part of the way through,
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Evan: as I'll admit here, I've, I need to, uh, complete that, that journey as I'll
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Evan: bring the act actually energy.
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Nick: Is that what you want?
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Evan: Yes. You need to, uh, Tolkien, Tolkien's way in everyone.
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Nick: Yeah.
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Evan: But yeah, so you have all that, you have the elves, and you have,
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Evan: I mean, really, you have all the different clans and all the different groups.
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Evan: And the first season is, you know, it's pretty good. It's pretty fun.
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Evan: It kind of culminates with learning that Sauron is taking, you know,
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Evan: a human form, and he's tricked people into creating several rings for the elves.
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Evan: Elves and that was actually one of the things that i found as a you know one
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Evan: of the many things that are kind of out of order is as far as as far as i know
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Evan: you can correct me if i'm wrong the elves did not get the rings first wasn't it the humans yeah.
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Nick: Um i don't know now that i'm thinking about it because the show's actually kind
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Nick: of confusing me um i just think in general and just to kind of i guess deflect
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Nick: and obfuscate because i don't actually know a little bit um the whole timeline
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Nick: line is kind of compressed right like,
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Nick: At the time of the Forging of the Rings, like, the characters,
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Nick: like, especially, like, the human characters, like, Isildur and even his father,
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Nick: Elendil, like, are not even going to be born for, like, a few hundred more years,
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Nick: you know, like, when this all kind of starts out.
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Nick: But, like, I get it, right? So, they have to compress things.
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Nick: They have to make it make sense. And, you know, for what it is, I think it's fine.
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Evan: Yeah, that's one of the, I was going to mention that too. So they have the,
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Evan: you know, Isildur coming from Numenor.
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Evan: And this is, you know, as far as I understand, as you said, I think I had it
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Evan: pulled up the timeline of when they were born, but now I don't have that tab open.
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Evan: But like you said, it's a couple hundred years later, but assuming they want
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Evan: to probably do a large portion of the whole second age in, well,
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Evan: I don't know, four seasons.
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Evan: I don't know how many seasons they'll get of this. They probably want to get
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Evan: all the way to where, you know, the beginning of the Lord of the Rings story
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Evan: takes you where Isildur is going to kill Sauron.
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Evan: So they have to get there eventually. And so they have to be together at, you know, on this show.
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Evan: You know, again, I don't blame them for that. This is, you know,
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Evan: the one thing I will say about this show, unlike our last discussion on The
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Evan: Hobbit, they didn't interject a bunch of, you know, annoying love triangles
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Evan: like they did in other ones.
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Evan: There is a little bit of romance-y stuff, but not as much as the other ones. I don't know.
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Nick: Yeah, no, I agree with that. I mean, there still is that there.
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Nick: And I guess we'll see where, like, with the last episode with the Isildur thing.
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Nick: But, like, that character seems kind of cool, you know? Not that, like, what was her name?
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Nick: Tariel wasn't, like, a cool character, but it was just, like,
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Nick: so contrived, you know? That is something I think that,
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Nick: irks me because in the same way i think that in the hobbit they were trying to use that uh,
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Nick: tariel character and her relationship with is it
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Nick: keely yeah like they call back to like the
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Nick: aragorn arwen kind of thing you know but it
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Nick: was more of in like a hokey kind of way like i feel like they do
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Nick: so much of this little like even if it's not
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Nick: like a big big plot line like that or side
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Nick: arc whatever you want to call it just like little moments that
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Nick: like they're like you know we're doing right we're still in the lord of the rings
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Nick: you remember when we kind of said something similar in you know
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Nick: the original trilogy you know and like it's just
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Nick: it's not even line for line sometimes but like even when like an episode one
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Nick: gladio goes like and she's referring to sauron and she says he's no man right
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Nick: and i know it's like a completely different context but like it's still kind
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Nick: of that cringy callback and it's like you don't need to do it so much yeah.
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Evan: We don't actually wonder i actually don't know the answer to this do they have
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Evan: that do they have um because Because I know there's different rights involved
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Evan: in what, you know, the Tolkien estate has let people use.
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Evan: I wonder if it's they couldn't use lines directly.
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Evan: So that's why they're doing it this way. Or maybe they're doing,
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Evan: as you said, like a callback to fans of the movies.
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Evan: And I think it's directly for people who like the movies, but maybe aren't necessarily
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Evan: huge fans of Lord of the Rings in the same way.
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Evan: Maybe you are, you know, so it's this is, oh, I saw the movie back, you know, 15 years ago.
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Evan: Now I'm going to hear a little nod to it. Like, I just saw the recent Alien
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Evan: movie and they did the same thing where they.
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Evan: Took lines from the original Alien to the ninth installment.
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Evan: And like, yeah, it's cool for a nod, but you know what? Just make your own new shit.
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Nick: You know? Yeah. It's a cool setting. It's a cool universe.
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Nick: I think one thing they've done
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Nick: well is like largely I think the characters and the acting is very good.
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Evan: It is. I will say that. Yeah. And that's weird talking, I think,
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Evan: before I started recording or maybe not, is that there aren't a lot of big name
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Evan: actors that I've seen in other things.
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Evan: And maybe you said it was actually kind of good. And actually reminds me a little
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Evan: bit of, well, for anyone.
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Evan: So i've mentioned to you that a lot of the production
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Evan: value is very reminiscent of game of thrones obviously it's not the same kind
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Evan: of universe at all but it seems like they're kind of using that as maybe their
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Evan: model of you know this big fantasy show that's expansive and all this and there
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Evan: were some big name actors i guess so i like that they went with the small people
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Evan: you know give people a chance.
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Nick: Oh definitely and they've all been pretty good like even like
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Nick: for the way that i may have a problem with
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Nick: like some of the characters like i one thing i still can't get
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Nick: over is like galadriel's like perceived age
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Nick: and maturity in this and i i guess
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Nick: again it's one of these things i'm coming to accept and just try to to
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Nick: roll with but it still bothers me because like she's older
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Nick: than like gil gil gil gallad and elrond by
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Nick: like a lot um in in
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Nick: the actual canon and she's already like one of the wisest people in the world
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Nick: at this point but like i get it because like they do kind of show in the lord
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Nick: of the rings that she's kind of drawn by this power it could be tempted so i
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Nick: guess if i'm being fair like it is an interesting way to kind of show that aspect
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Nick: of her personality and make her an interesting character well.
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Evan: They somehow you somehow almost have to pretend that the lord of the rings doesn't
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Evan: exist in some sense like we're,
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Evan: imagining like this that this had come out before those like you're learning
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Evan: about all these things you know it would have maybe influenced how the lord
00:12:06
Evan: of the rings was made or how peter jackson And then in reverse,
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Evan: you're kind of stuck with, we already know what Tolkien wrote in his books and what's in the movies.
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Evan: They're just not going to give you exactly that because...
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Nick: Oh, go ahead, sorry.
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Evan: No, that's it, yeah, yeah.
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Nick: Yeah, no, and to your point that, like, a lot of this is probably written for movie watchers.
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Nick: I mean, both, but, like, definitely appealing to that.
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Nick: So that's, I don't know, that seems to be, and even reading some things that,
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Nick: what's the actress that plays Galadriel's name? Morfydd? Morfydd Clark?
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Evan: Morfydd Clark, yeah.
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Nick: Yeah. It seemed like when she was referencing some of, like,
00:12:44
Nick: the character beats that she was referring to the movies. movies and again some
00:12:49
Nick: of that stuff with Galadriel actually.
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Evan: Matched up pretty.
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Nick: Closely but maybe they are you know operating under that assumption that like
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Nick: most people are going to interpret this in the same canon as the movies you know.
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Evan: Yeah I guess it's kind of hard to uh to I will say like I think she plays Galadriel
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Evan: really well whether or not you like you know maybe what they've done with the
00:13:09
Evan: character I think it's pretty good I think I think you mentioned to me too that
00:13:12
Evan: in we learn We have the guy, Charlie Vickers plays the Sauron character.
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Evan: He doesn't have the same name throughout the first season. We learn at the end who he is.
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Evan: We learn that he's been deceiving Galadriel and the elves and everyone this
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Evan: whole time to get them to do what they say in Lord of the Rings,
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Evan: which is to make all the various rings.
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Evan: The ring is in the title.
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Evan: It's called the Rings of Power, everyone. So it's going to be about rings.
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Evan: But yeah, so he's really good, I think. His character is really good.
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Evan: The actor, I mean, Charlie Vickers is good.
00:13:44
Evan: And I think that they did a good job with his arc.
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Evan: And I know we're not exactly talking about season two, but we kind of where
00:13:51
Evan: we leave off at the end of the first season is they've made the rings for the elves, the three rings.
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Evan: And we learn who Thauron is, and we know who Gandalf is, but we don't know how
00:14:03
Evan: they're all going to kind of come together.
00:14:04
Evan: Other and then the opening of this of the second season is you know what to
00:14:08
Evan: do with these rings should the elves use them to save their you know essentially
00:14:13
Evan: their live or their livelihood on in middle earth so i think it's kind of cool
00:14:18
Evan: you know i don't i don't want to you know
00:14:20
Evan: someone out there way you know you may or anyone may think it's a little bit
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Evan: hokey but i think it works i don't know.
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Nick: I know i i agree that it works i mean i
00:14:29
Nick: think they kind of show that like these rings were
00:14:33
Nick: crafted under the influence of sauron so
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Nick: like there's reason and i think mostly by like elrond to
00:14:39
Nick: show some skepticism towards that and like
00:14:42
Nick: skepticism towards like the power that they grant right
00:14:45
Nick: and which is you know that's the theme of the whole thing so i'm really
00:14:48
Nick: cool with that um but and i
00:14:50
Nick: think also in this episode like it opens with the
00:14:53
Nick: this this opens with like the killing of the original quote-unquote
00:14:57
Nick: saron right by that yeah that was pretty cool yeah yeah
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Nick: and like just to your point like i don't even
00:15:03
Nick: really have a problem with them doing the whole how brand thing um just
00:15:07
Nick: because i think that opening scene and just
00:15:09
Nick: the characterization throughout the whole and like the changes that we see
00:15:12
Nick: with him even in the first three episodes of this show like one of saran's like
00:15:16
Nick: really cool like in notable powers that like he's like a shapeshifter and he
00:15:21
Nick: can assume all these different shapes and like so he has that power and until
00:15:24
Nick: like he forges the ring and gets kind of defeated like he does you know he has
00:15:29
Nick: that power which he doesn't have it after that but um yeah.
00:15:32
Evan: And yeah and well i thought yeah the first the opening of the first episode
00:15:35
Evan: which you talked about and then i thought the episode the the uh,
00:15:40
Evan: the oh gosh what was i going to mention um no yeah maybe that's just the first episode yeah,
00:15:46
Evan: right the first episode is kind of giving you uh how did
00:15:49
Evan: he be how did he become connected with galadriel to
00:15:52
Evan: begin with how did they put them like on the path together and not
00:15:55
Evan: only does it have his shape-shifting power it shows kind of his ability for
00:15:58
Evan: manipulation of people right like especially so in
00:16:01
Evan: the first uh whole season he's manipulating galadriel into
00:16:04
Evan: kind of basically doing whatever he wants and now she
00:16:07
Evan: realizes you know in the second and third
00:16:10
Evan: episodes well maybe i can't go see him again
00:16:13
Evan: because he can do the same thing again and
00:16:16
Evan: so she tries to get uh what is it um what's his name uh elrond to come with
00:16:20
Evan: him the second time when they go to see him but then the other thing i was going
00:16:23
Evan: to mention is that he then changes form again where he's now you know working
00:16:28
Evan: to get more rings made and he's you know getting uh calibrindor is that his name calibrindor.
00:16:35
Evan: To convince he's the master ringmaker and he's now inserted himself much further
00:16:40
Evan: and you now can see he's crafting these rings to not just to help them but essentially
00:16:45
Evan: to destroy everyone because we know what happens in the future is that these rings do not,
00:16:51
Evan: they don't bode well for anyone living in any of these lands Khazad-dun is basically
00:16:56
Evan: destroyed because of their probably,
00:16:59
Evan: how does it go in the the you know in the lore of how does uh it become destroyed
00:17:04
Evan: or how do they kind of what's the downfall there do you know.
00:17:06
Nick: Yeah i mean so the downfall is really when they um
00:17:09
Nick: encountered the balrog right who was buried under there
00:17:12
Nick: um and it's implied that like they just kept like going after all the reaches
00:17:17
Nick: right like they dug too greedily and they dug too deep right like the line from
00:17:20
Nick: saruman um right so i think the connection and i'm speculating at this point
00:17:25
Nick: but we see in episode three that they begin the forging of the rings,
00:17:32
Nick: of the dwarven rings, right? And like,
00:17:35
Nick: speculate because it said that the dwarven rings basically like
00:17:39
Nick: they had the ability to breed great hordes of wealth
00:17:41
Nick: but like it also so sauron couldn't really influence
00:17:44
Nick: the dwarves all that much it was just like kind of i think exacerbated some
00:17:49
Nick: of their worst tendencies like their stubbornness and their greed so my thinking
00:17:53
Nick: is is that the ring he's gonna get is gonna drive them to continue to look for
00:17:58
Nick: more mithril and then they're gonna encounter the balrog and i think
00:18:02
Nick: it's in the trailer right that we see the balrog at some point but i think that's
00:18:06
Nick: the connection that we're gonna say well.
00:18:07
Evan: I don't know actually i wonder if because they made a very clear point of showing
00:18:12
Evan: sauron or i guess his name now is anatar his you.
00:18:15
Nick: Know he's now.
00:18:16
Evan: Kind of this uh kind of to trick calibram more he takes the mithril from the.
00:18:22
Nick: Dwarves and.
00:18:22
Evan: Puts it in so i assume that he's putting some kind of something.
00:18:27
Nick: To increase.
00:18:28
Evan: Like so i think what you did you You basically just said like it's to increase
00:18:31
Evan: their, you know, their greed towards Mithril and thinking like,
00:18:34
Evan: oh, if we get more Mithril, maybe they'll make us more rings.
00:18:36
Evan: And it's kind of like this and never ending that he just created capitalism
00:18:39
Evan: for the dwarves, basically.
00:18:41
Nick: Yeah, I mean, they were just doing mercantilism prior to. But no.
00:18:46
Nick: So, yeah, they did make like a really explicit point to show him like dropping
00:18:50
Nick: that in like that. He touched it. Right.
00:18:53
Nick: And I think that's a difference between Mithril.
00:18:56
Nick: Elven rings because i don't know if you ever touched it i'd have to go
00:18:59
Nick: back and re-watch it you know what i mean so like that's showing explicitly
00:19:02
Nick: like his influence is going into these what i was saying is that like in the
00:19:06
Nick: same way like his his hand is going to be in with the men right and the men
00:19:10
Nick: turn into the ring rates that they ultimately give the rings to the dwarves
00:19:13
Nick: don't necessarily they're not like that corruptible by them but like his influence
00:19:17
Nick: is still there obviously yeah.
00:19:18
Evan: It's i mean it's very explicit in the movies and in the books that the The men
00:19:22
Evan: are the ones that are very corruptible.
00:19:24
Evan: But I thought another thing that I, like I, a couple of the notes that I wrote
00:19:27
Evan: down was, you know, at one point when they're kind of deciding whether,
00:19:32
Evan: when Elrond is like kind of taking the rings and he's kind of gone and hiding.
00:19:37
Evan: I think that's in the second episode.
00:19:39
Evan: They, you know, he doesn't, he goes to one of his sort of mentors or one of
00:19:43
Evan: the eldest elves, Sidran or Sirden, Sirden? Sirden?
00:19:47
Nick: Círdan, yeah.
00:19:47
Evan: Yeah, Kyrden, who's, you know, one of the eldest, eldest elves,
00:19:52
Evan: and he's, you know, basically convinces him that he should, you know,
00:19:55
Evan: that it's worthy, you know, after first deciding, well, maybe it's not a good idea.
00:19:59
Evan: Things like, okay, well, maybe if they're in the hands of people who are good
00:20:04
Evan: hearted, you know, the elves are have, you know, good intentions in mind,
00:20:07
Evan: they can handle the power of the rings.
00:20:09
Evan: But if they're in the hand of Sauron, he would do bad things.
00:20:12
Evan: The first thing I could think of is, back when I discussed the first original
00:20:15
Evan: trilogy, is kind of how that sounds like a very liberal take on it.
00:20:21
Evan: Like, oh, we can hold fascism away by doing our way of things. And I don't know.
00:20:29
Nick: It's the social democracy path forward.
00:20:31
Evan: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't know. That's basically what we kind of came to in the first ones.
00:20:38
Evan: Hungry Rye and I had done the first ones. And yeah, I don't know.
00:20:43
Evan: Maybe it's just I can't get that you out of my head.
00:20:46
Evan: Probably the average person watching this wouldn't think that.
00:20:47
Evan: They'd be like, oh, the elves are just good people.
00:20:50
Evan: They're very old and they're wise. I mean, I guess those things are true.
00:20:55
Evan: But we can see they are corruptible because Celebrinborn is already now corrupted by Sauron.
00:21:01
Evan: You know, he's lying to his king and doing all these things that he wouldn't normally do.
00:21:05
Evan: And he's like, are you sure you want to do that? And he's like,
00:21:07
Evan: yes, yes. We need to, I have this power.
00:21:10
Evan: I want to use it. And it's very clear that shit's all going to go bad, as we all know.
00:21:15
Nick: No, yeah. And like one thing I think I do appreciate is
00:21:19
Nick: the kind of shades of gray that they introduce into
00:21:21
Nick: like the different characters and even like the different races
00:21:24
Nick: you know at some level i think tolkien kind of
00:21:27
Nick: unfairly often gets the criticism that you know everything is kind of binary
00:21:31
Nick: good and bad when that was never true you know what i mean like there was you
00:21:34
Nick: know there was corruptible elves always and like even mentions and i think this
00:21:38
Nick: actually gets characterized pretty well that like zaron has kind of like a struggle
00:21:42
Nick: especially after the fall of morgoth where he was like,
00:21:46
Nick: repenting like and actually doing good and i think we kind of see that and especially season
00:21:50
Nick: one i think we're seeing him completely you know eliminate
00:21:54
Nick: any graspings towards that at this point
00:21:57
Nick: he's just full mask off yeah yeah but even like the orcs are kind of interesting
00:22:01
Nick: to me and that it seems like they're trying to make them at least like somewhat
00:22:04
Nick: sympathetic i don't and humanize them i guess a little bit like we see orc families
00:22:09
Nick: and like they're just to believe that like they're just trying to create some
00:22:12
Nick: kind of like safe space for themselves i.
00:22:15
Evan: I think in the third episode, at one point, they asked, like,
00:22:18
Evan: oh, you know, do we, I think they asked Adar, like, oh, why do we have to go to war again?
00:22:22
Evan: Why can't we just, we have this base now, we want a war, we have some land, why can't we just live?
00:22:26
Evan: And he's, oh, we have to, you know, defeat the evil of Sauron because,
00:22:30
Evan: I mean, he doesn't really know that Sauron exists anymore, but maybe he,
00:22:33
Evan: you know, it's like this never-ending war.
00:22:35
Evan: He's got to just do some Middle-earth imperialism because, you know, that's what he does.
00:22:39
Evan: But the orcs do seem to want to just live their lives.
00:22:42
Evan: I mean, they're not, and so here's the thing. Here's a question.
00:22:45
Evan: I saw something or someone say that it's not obvious from this show that Sauron
00:22:50
Evan: actually wanted to maybe, when he's killed and his body is, you know,
00:22:56
Evan: his old body is destroyed.
00:22:57
Evan: He actually did want to like destroy and take over the call of Middle-earth.
00:23:01
Evan: Like, was that his plan, do you think, at that time?
00:23:03
Evan: Or is it more of just, I want to just be this, you know, lord? I don't know.
00:23:08
Nick: Know yeah so i mean that would have been like i think the
00:23:10
Nick: time like that i was just mentioning where like sauron is considering
00:23:14
Nick: like basically okay got it amends with the gods
00:23:16
Nick: and everything but i guess like how it's ultimately like
00:23:20
Nick: one he's too ashamed to do that right two he's too drawn by the power and like
00:23:25
Nick: they frame his power and i think this is always something interesting to talk
00:23:29
Nick: about especially with respect to capitalism because that's another conclusion
00:23:32
Nick: that i've come to like whether you know tolkien knew it or not like he was critiquing
00:23:36
Nick: industrial capitalism in some way,
00:23:38
Nick: especially with the environmental lens. Anyway, I don't want to get too far afield.
00:23:42
Nick: But like Sauron's kind of ultimate downfall in terms of what he wanted to see
00:23:46
Nick: was like he wanted to spring like order and structure to the world,
00:23:50
Nick: but he believed that he was like the only one that would be able to do it.
00:23:53
Nick: Like nobody in the world, not the elves, not the dwarves, like maybe he could
00:23:56
Nick: work more with the elves, but certainly not the men had the capability to actually
00:24:01
Nick: make a structured, ordered, you know, quote-unquote perfect world.
00:24:05
Evan: It would have been really sucky if he had said, well, isn't Donald Trump's like
00:24:09
Evan: the, I don't know, from his first where he goes, like, I alone can fix it.
00:24:14
Evan: Like, that's Sauron, right? He's like, I alone can fix everything.
00:24:17
Evan: You know, basically, my version of fascism would be good and great because,
00:24:22
Evan: you know, I would be in charge and I could control everything.
00:24:25
Evan: But no, but I think your comment about the Tolkien and the critiquing of industrial capitalism,
00:24:31
Evan: I know that's not necessarily relevant specifically to these things,
00:24:36
Evan: but that would be, I think, did you talk about that on your episode on,
00:24:39
Evan: you did an episode on your podcast.
00:24:41
Evan: I think it was one of the first ones I found. I think you talked about that, if I recall.
00:24:45
Nick: Yeah, we got into that quite a bit on that episode.
00:24:50
Nick: Because we were talking more about the books, I think. or no yeah just tolkien
00:24:54
Nick: in general it was just tolkien in general.
00:24:56
Evan: Yeah it was more of a tolkien episode so just.
00:24:58
Nick: Kind of looking at his writings and his life and how that influenced it and
00:25:02
Nick: like what we could glean from it as communist you know.
00:25:04
Evan: Yeah it'll be interesting in the future to do kind of
00:25:07
Evan: like a i don't know like a second part of that sort of
00:25:11
Evan: thing i need i read the reread the books i guess
00:25:13
Evan: for those episodes a year ago but i
00:25:16
Evan: need to maybe i need to read a little more uh other content and
00:25:19
Evan: then we could do some other um other things but
00:25:22
Evan: i guess one of the other plots we didn't talk about much at
00:25:25
Evan: all is like on numenor with you know the the queen
00:25:28
Evan: queen region who had come to you know middle earth to fight and then they you
00:25:32
Evan: know return home and i don't know i don't know is that much about numenor except
00:25:36
Evan: we know eventually that it's completely also destroyed but do you like i don't
00:25:41
Evan: know i'm not as that that plot to me feels very much the most like lord of Lord of the Rings,
00:25:46
Evan: like Game of Thrones-y where there's, you know, political plotting and fights over the queen,
00:25:51
Evan: you know, who's going to be queen or king and brothers and, you know,
00:25:55
Evan: planteers and all this nonsense.
00:25:57
Evan: And I don't know, that to me is like the least interesting one. I don't know. Yeah.
00:26:02
Nick: And I think that one really does suffer from this idea of like a more condensed
00:26:07
Nick: timeline because things are happening so fast and it's hard to keep track of who the people are.
00:26:11
Nick: You know, I think broadly there is that level of kind of political intrigue.
00:26:16
Nick: But like what's cool about like when you read like the stuff that there is about
00:26:19
Nick: like the second age is kind of like the way Tolkien presents this kind of like
00:26:23
Nick: decay of the island, right? They have this grandeur, this thousand-year reign
00:26:29
Nick: of glorious, and they treat other people good.
00:26:31
Nick: But eventually they get like, and this is kind of the Palantir thing,
00:26:34
Nick: they get super jealous of the elves and immortal life, right?
00:26:38
Nick: Turn to dark practices and kind of turn inward and stuff.
00:26:42
Nick: And that's manifested ultimately in that Farazan guy, the Muriel's cousin who
00:26:49
Nick: looks like he's going to become king.
00:26:51
Nick: So yeah, I don't know. They don't really tell the whole story, and it's hard to do it.
00:26:58
Evan: No, right. You almost would need multiple... You could have a show just about
00:27:02
Evan: each of these places, almost. You could have an elf...
00:27:05
Evan: Tv show or a show you know about what's going on there but doesn't farazan fight
00:27:09
Evan: sauron like some point and capture him or something like that yeah.
00:27:13
Nick: So ultimately how it like
00:27:16
Nick: works in like the lore is that like sauron kind
00:27:19
Nick: of openly declares himself and comes back
00:27:22
Nick: with an army of orcs and like fights gilgalid and all
00:27:25
Nick: them um and then the numenoreans
00:27:28
Nick: and it come to to their rescue and they basically like defeat Sauron and he
00:27:33
Nick: goes back to Numenor as like their captive but like he kind of turns into like
00:27:37
Nick: the dark and I think this is something that they're probably gonna do because
00:27:41
Nick: he has to get back to Numenor to kind of push that Farzan over the edge.
00:27:45
Evan: Right so yeah so maybe maybe that's actually what they're gonna as you said
00:27:49
Evan: they're compressing a lot of these things he'll have to get back there somehow
00:27:52
Evan: maybe that's maybe that's where he brings the rings for men perhaps maybe.
00:27:57
Nick: I think we're gonna see them go to a lot of different places.
00:27:59
Evan: Yeah i mean they want to i i don't want
00:28:02
Evan: to look at the like the descriptions of the
00:28:05
Evan: future episodes like i like to i try not to know spoilers before i watch things
00:28:10
Evan: just because but i'm sure that there's gonna have more there because why i'll
00:28:13
Evan: set all that up if it's not gonna pay off to something because if you're if
00:28:17
Evan: he's in the if he becomes king and then he does he become like the king of all
00:28:20
Evan: men is that what happens or no it.
00:28:22
Nick: Becomes like the king of numenor yeah.
00:28:24
Evan: Okay so i I don't know. Yeah, I need to, I don't have my, my, uh, lore.
00:28:28
Evan: I'm sure, I'm sure some, did you, some point during, maybe it was during the
00:28:32
Evan: Hoppet episode, did you send me, or at some point I had some website where if
00:28:37
Evan: you click on any like location in the, like in Middle Earth,
00:28:41
Evan: it would give you all these different details.
00:28:43
Evan: I don't know if you had sent this to me. I should have opened it for this, but anyway, um.
00:28:47
Nick: You have to send that to me if you can find it. I don't know if I saw that one.
00:28:50
Evan: I swear I had something about that. There was this crazy map that someone had
00:28:54
Evan: created where you could click on and it would tell you like how far things were
00:28:58
Evan: from each other and all these different.
00:29:00
Nick: That's really cool.
00:29:02
Evan: Path people took and it was all based on like you know sim really
00:29:05
Evan: in and all the all the different books or something but
00:29:08
Evan: yeah i'll find that and maybe i'll link it also in here but i don't know if
00:29:11
Evan: there's anything um i know because we talked about a lot of things we mostly
00:29:15
Evan: like but as far as things that like annoyed you from you know even the first
00:29:19
Evan: season or second season like was there anything that like stands out as just
00:29:23
Evan: you know this just doesn't make any sense at all like i don't know if there's uh anything.
00:29:28
Nick: I mean again i was trying not to like day on that too much which again,
00:29:32
Nick: it's just like the repeated things, like, you know, the Ents are coming now, right?
00:29:36
Nick: We're going to see the Ents. And I know they're really trying to make you feel
00:29:38
Nick: like middle, that you're in Middle Earth, but like when we saw the Ents and
00:29:41
Nick: then the, in the same one, we saw like a nod to Shelob.
00:29:45
Nick: And, you know, I guess as I'm talking it through, like I get it,
00:29:49
Nick: like they're trying to place you in the world with like familiar scenes and
00:29:52
Nick: familiar places and everything, but just sometimes it feels like a little overwrought
00:29:56
Nick: and that's just annoying me.
00:29:58
Evan: Yeah, well, I mean, they take a place that's not, I mean, it's a small place,
00:30:01
Evan: but it's still not that small where somehow they're able
00:30:04
Evan: to you know they are in the dark yeah the the she love thing also was very much
00:30:09
Evan: much creepier than maybe some of the ones in return of the king especially because
00:30:15
Evan: there's a lot of like little spiders that was kind of gross but yeah yeah i'm
00:30:19
Evan: not like i'm not usually a big fan of spiders in general but so i appreciated it yeah.
00:30:24
Nick: Yeah i get it i'll give you one thing that's annoying me is the whole like gandalf
00:30:28
Nick: and the hobbits line like it just feels completely unnecessary i.
00:30:32
Evan: Don't know what they i mean they only they wanted to have the hobbits involved
00:30:37
Evan: and i don't know any other way they could have been involved because they don't
00:30:41
Evan: do they at this point do they ever even cross paths with elves at this point i'm.
00:30:45
Nick: Sure because elves would still be kind of in that area so like i'm sure they
00:30:48
Nick: would be aware like the elves at least would be aware of their existence i don't
00:30:52
Nick: know about vice versa you know and yeah you're right i guess like how do you do it it just it's.
00:30:57
Evan: Irking me.
00:30:57
Nick: A little bit that Gandalf's coming in and like doesn't know anything. I don't know.
00:31:03
Nick: I get it. Maybe it's establishing his love and fondness for hobbits.
00:31:07
Evan: Yeah, no, I agree. I think that that's probably the weakest section,
00:31:13
Evan: and it doesn't really do much other than Gandalf learning his powers and his abilities.
00:31:19
Evan: And other than that, I don't know where that plot line will go.
00:31:23
Evan: And if it's... I don't know. Because we now have two wizards that have entered.
00:31:26
Evan: Well, unless you count... Yeah, two wizards, right? The dark...
00:31:30
Evan: What's the other wizard they have uh.
00:31:31
Nick: Oh that like dark wizard guy that they introduced well i don't even know who that is yeah.
00:31:36
Evan: I guess they don't really say see see i don't know does he kind of look like saran sarman sorry.
00:31:41
Nick: And it looks like sarman they're definitely going for that i don't think it's sarman um all.
00:31:46
Evan: Wizards just kind of look they just have a look i.
00:31:48
Nick: Guess so you know maybe they're just kind of like invoking christopher lee which
00:31:52
Nick: is like you know not the worst person or performance no he does he does look he does look a.
00:31:57
Evan: Lot like him he has kind of like the same facial.
00:31:59
Nick: Eyebrows and like the pointy beard features yeah i.
00:32:03
Evan: Actually really hope now that it's not him because that would kind of i think
00:32:06
Evan: that would kind of suck actually.
00:32:07
Nick: Yeah it just wouldn't make a lot of sense because like him and gandalf like
00:32:11
Nick: would have come over around like the same time and like that's also not to say
00:32:16
Nick: that like they're not supposed to come until the one ring's already been forged
00:32:18
Nick: so they're already way off with that but well.
00:32:21
Evan: Maybe they're gonna well yeah Yeah.
00:32:24
Evan: The only thing I could think of is if those two things, well,
00:32:28
Evan: I guess they make them obviously like they're on the same timeline unless,
00:32:31
Evan: yeah, I'm trying to give them credit by saying, okay, well, maybe those aren't,
00:32:36
Evan: it's not happening simultaneously as those.
00:32:39
Evan: And, you know, Gandalf will have some big realization when the actual one ring,
00:32:44
Evan: I don't know, isn't going to have the one ring. I don't know. Probably not.
00:32:47
Nick: Probably not. We'll see. But I mean, yeah, I don't know.
00:32:50
Nick: I mean, like I said, like I'm kind of stretching for things that I'd like are really bugging me.
00:32:55
Nick: Like there's always little things I think that just kind of accumulate you and
00:32:59
Nick: like you and I were talking about this offline.
00:33:01
Nick: It was like, you know, I'm enjoying it in the moment and then I find things
00:33:04
Nick: to kind of nitpick about it afterwards.
00:33:07
Nick: I'm like, Oh, why the fuck did they do that?
00:33:09
Nick: But again, I'm trying to let people enjoy things a little bit too now. Yeah.
00:33:14
Evan: Apparently they haven't announced the third season, but apparently they're leaning
00:33:18
Evan: to planning towards one.
00:33:19
Evan: I mean, I can't imagine they're just going to, it's very, very very popular
00:33:22
Evan: so you know someone's been doing.
00:33:24
Nick: Well like numbers wise i haven't really seen.
00:33:25
Evan: I don't know let's see uh is it considered like ratings i.
00:33:30
Nick: Don't know i mean like i'm sure amazon can invent its own kind of rating system.
00:33:34
Evan: To make it yeah because they don't they'll just announce usually like how many streams yeah.
00:33:39
Nick: And i don't know like what's good and what's not you know what i mean.
00:33:42
Evan: Yeah because they'll say sometimes for some netflix show come on it'll have
00:33:46
Evan: let's see rings of power season one uh the prequel had 25 million views in the
00:33:55
Evan: first 24 hours of its release,
00:33:58
Evan: But it says, and comparing it to the Game of Thrones, which when it was up, it had 10 million.
00:34:04
Evan: So, I mean, I guess that's a lot. Yeah. Again, seems like a lot.
00:34:08
Evan: I don't know. But they also could lie. I don't know. Who the hell knows?
00:34:10
Nick: That's what I'm saying. Like, we have to trust Amazon's own numbers at some level. But I don't know.
00:34:14
Evan: I mean, they wouldn't spend like a billion dollars or $500 million if it was not doing well.
00:34:20
Evan: Although, I guess I could see Jeff Bezos just being like, he has what?
00:34:24
Evan: $200 billion? What's one of them to make this show?
00:34:27
Nick: Yeah. although.
00:34:28
Evan: I'm sure it's not.
00:34:28
Nick: Actually his.
00:34:29
Evan: Money right so but still i don't know they'll.
00:34:32
Nick: Make five seasons.
00:34:33
Evan: Because they're gonna make four or five seasons because as.
00:34:36
Nick: Long as it does okay um they've got
00:34:39
Nick: enough here i think where it can justify like you know
00:34:42
Nick: four or five seasons based on what i've seen so far
00:34:44
Nick: you know um but then like again there's also
00:34:47
Nick: like if it continues to do well like there will be that
00:34:50
Nick: inevitable urge to draw it out and suck as much money as they humanly possibly
00:34:55
Nick: can off of it like so i don't know this is different but like speaking of amazon
00:34:59
Nick: shows like i've been watching the boys and i really enjoyed like the first few
00:35:02
Nick: seasons of it you know like it was cool but like just getting it's just too
00:35:06
Nick: much already like just yeah i've,
00:35:09
Nick: i've seen the whole thing.
00:35:11
Evan: And i feel like when i'm watching the last couple seasons i'm just nothing really
00:35:14
Evan: even makes any sense anymore it's almost like just extreme nonsense.
00:35:18
Nick: Yeah.
00:35:20
Evan: It's well, it's enjoyable. Okay. So here's something I just found.
00:35:22
Evan: It said that with the showrunners bought the rights, they bought the rights
00:35:26
Evan: for a 50 hour show, which means it would be five seasons.
00:35:29
Evan: And they claim that the payoffs won't end, you know, the won't pay off from
00:35:33
Evan: season one till season five.
00:35:35
Evan: And they already know what the last shot of the last episode will be,
00:35:39
Evan: which I assume will be, um, I don't know, killing the start of the Lord of the Rings, like opening.
00:35:44
Nick: That's what I would think too. Right? Like the Sildur cut in the ring.
00:35:48
Evan: But what's crazy is like it seems like they got to where they
00:35:51
Evan: are so quickly and then that's not that i don't know
00:35:53
Evan: they can move whatever pace they want again like again it's
00:35:57
Evan: good tv is it like perfect lord of the rings no but you know what it's gonna
00:36:04
Evan: do the same shit that game of thrones did i read all of the books the first
00:36:07
Evan: like three or four seasons were really good and then it just turned to shit
00:36:10
Evan: when they ran out of source material they don't really have any shortage of
00:36:13
Evan: source material it's just a question of how they use that i guess that's.
00:36:16
Nick: Exactly it yeah it could go for a while and into a lot of rabbit holes so you
00:36:20
Nick: know what they do with it i guess and i don't hate it just.
00:36:23
Evan: Enjoy it have tom bomb but have tom bombadil or something i.
00:36:27
Nick: Think i think he does pop in from what i saw.
00:36:30
Evan: When does he live for like
00:36:33
Evan: ever so he would be alive at this point yeah yeah yeah okay so they could have
00:36:38
Evan: him they could do whatever they want they could have gandalf meeting him i don't
00:36:41
Evan: know because isn't there like isn't there supposed isn't there like a council
00:36:44
Evan: with Gandalf and Bombadil and a whole thing that they don't they cut out of
00:36:49
Evan: or they didn't put in the second movie, Two Towers?
00:36:52
Nick: There is some kind of like I think meeting towards the end or something and
00:36:55
Nick: then the hobbits meet him in the fellowship but.
00:36:58
Evan: Yeah Bombadil deserves like to be in something.
00:37:01
Nick: Maybe they'll give him a cameo.
00:37:04
Evan: I wonder who will play him. I'm sure he'll be in it, but yeah.
00:37:08
Nick: One thing I'll say is they're not really relying on a lot of spectacle yet, at least.
00:37:13
Nick: I mean, in terms of epic battle stuff yet. I mean, visual and set piece spectacle, for sure.
00:37:18
Nick: But the battles are not here yet, and it's still got me hooked.
00:37:22
Nick: I think just to the point that the character work is pretty good,
00:37:25
Nick: and most of the dialogue is well done.
00:37:28
Evan: Yeah, most of it's well done, except for when they have to use callback lines.
00:37:32
Evan: There was one really bad one did i that we
00:37:35
Evan: did i send it to you there was one that was bad you said the one like he is
00:37:38
Evan: no man yeah there was another one when they were talking about the rings like
00:37:42
Evan: um oh god it was like one of the lines that galadriel says like in the uh like
00:37:47
Evan: the voice over in the very first fellowship and i can't remember what it was
00:37:51
Evan: yeah yeah one was created and see no i know.
00:37:55
Nick: What you're talking about i can't play.
00:37:56
Evan: There was some line as they said i'm like oh come on like this you know and
00:38:00
Evan: then and then i again have to do what you're doing is It's just like,
00:38:02
Evan: pretend for my sake that it's just Lord of the Rings content.
00:38:07
Nick: Maybe it's not dialogue as much as like, again, like the acting's good. So just stick with that.
00:38:11
Evan: Yeah.
00:38:12
Nick: I like the dwarves. I do like the dwarves. I mean, the dwarf storyline is kind
00:38:15
Nick: of, they've got to, you know, make it make a little more sense.
00:38:18
Nick: But like, I like, I love Durin and his wife. They're cool.
00:38:22
Evan: It's not, it's not, it's not too, uh, it's not too woke for, for that, for 2024.
00:38:26
Nick: Yeah. A black, only half bearded dwarf woman. What the fuck is this?
00:38:30
Evan: But I was telling Levi earlier today that I was recording this episode and we
00:38:34
Evan: were, I don't know, he asked me some question like, oh, do you like it even though it's too woke?
00:38:38
Evan: And I'm like, and I said, and I think the line I said was, is it Tolkien more
00:38:43
Evan: like Wolken or something like that?
00:38:46
Evan: Like, I couldn't think of a funny way to include it, but he's like,
00:38:49
Evan: you have to say it in the episode.
00:38:50
Nick: Someone on Reddit says that unironically now.
00:38:53
Evan: Says Wolken? Yeah.
00:38:55
Nick: No, I'm just, I'm speculating here.
00:38:57
Evan: Oh, okay.
00:38:58
Nick: I'm like...
00:38:59
Evan: I can't be the first one who said that, but he's like, oh, did you think of
00:39:04
Evan: that joke? I'm like, it wasn't really a joke. It's just, it's a play on.
00:39:09
Nick: That's good.
00:39:10
Evan: But yeah, that was like people who have those kind of complaints.
00:39:12
Evan: I don't take you seriously.
00:39:14
Evan: So you should just, you're not listening to this podcast if you think that the
00:39:17
Evan: word woke is like a worthy word to use. Yeah.
00:39:20
Nick: Stop being a chud.
00:39:23
Evan: But yeah, I don't really have anything, any other like thoughts.
00:39:27
Evan: Thoughts i mean yeah i mean this isn't this is not exactly
00:39:30
Evan: like one of those recap podcasts where we went through you
00:39:33
Evan: know scene by scene like you can you can go to
00:39:36
Evan: like esquire or i don't know other websites and read like recaps of each episode
00:39:40
Evan: if you want to get the detail and not want to watch it but that's that's that's
00:39:45
Evan: all i got um any uh any last thoughts on on this nick or any predictions i guess
00:39:50
Evan: we kind of well maybe it's too early in the season to predict we'll see,
00:39:54
Evan: if we'll since since we did this for three episodes and there's eight total
00:39:58
Evan: i don't know maybe we do this just in two parts or three parts whatever yeah.
00:40:02
Nick: Yeah maybe we could do one after the next three and then like for the i'm sure
00:40:05
Nick: the finale and maybe the last two will be longer so maybe that'll work out that way.
00:40:09
Evan: Yeah i gotta think the first one was like an
00:40:11
Evan: hour and 10 minutes and then the other were shorter but yeah it's
00:40:14
Evan: it's like 50 million dollars an episode or something crazy or 80 million dollars
00:40:18
Evan: it's like a movie for each episode but yeah we'll uh we'll we'll do uh do you
00:40:22
Evan: know further ones of these and hungry rye if you're listening well if you uh
00:40:26
Evan: catch up we'll glad to have you on the uh the next episode but any last thoughts nick no.
00:40:32
Nick: Man this was fun thanks for having me thanks for having me on.
00:40:34
Evan: Yeah it's uh the first uh the only other episode
00:40:37
Evan: i ever did on a tv show was just talking about
00:40:40
Evan: star trek as a communist tv show generally
00:40:43
Evan: just being like the communist utopia and i would
00:40:47
Evan: say that the tolkien middle earth universe is not the
00:40:49
Evan: communist utopia it is very much not but uh yeah it's the shire yes until we
00:40:56
Evan: build the shire that's right although i guess they do have some there is some
00:40:59
Evan: well maybe in a future episode we can talk more about um you know uh politics
00:41:04
Evan: of war of the rings of to a further degree it's.
00:41:07
Nick: Just socialism with baggins characteristics is all it is.
00:41:10
Evan: Is it uh bagginism is that the uh yeah yeah marxist bout marxist That's right.
00:41:17
Evan: Marks is Baggist. Something like that. That's right. But yeah.
00:41:19
Evan: Yeah, I don't have anything left, but Nick, it's been fun and I appreciate it.
00:41:23
Evan: Actually, you basically, you asked about doing this, doing talking,
00:41:27
Evan: I don't know if you actually about doing the episode, but I said, well, may as well do it.
00:41:30
Evan: But people should check out your podcast, even though you don't have stuff right
00:41:36
Evan: now, you should go listen to all of their Israel podcast.
00:41:39
Evan: Zionist series, but like 12 of them, 13, I don't know how many you have.
00:41:43
Nick: A lot of commentary. So I'm not educated on that yet. Yeah.
00:41:48
Evan: Yeah. If you're listening to this, you probably have some knowledge on that,
00:41:51
Evan: but there happens to be some shit going on right now, you know, in that region.
00:41:54
Evan: So you should read or listen to all of those episodes.
00:41:59
Evan: I appear in, I guess one of them, but it wasn't really a history episode.
00:42:03
Evan: It was more of a, of a discussing one, but Nick of Intervention, thanks for coming on.
00:42:07
Nick: Thanks for having me, buddy. Talk to you soon.
00:42:09
Evan: Cool. Well, everyone listening, you can listen to Intervention and Left of the
00:42:13
Evan: Projector on the internet where you can find podcasts and we'll catch you next time.
