Episode 210
Gareth Edwards Films: Monsters (2010)
In this episode, we kick off our mini-series on Gareth Edwards with a deep dive into his indie film Monsters. We discuss its low budget, minimalist storytelling, and the themes of imperialism and capitalism woven into the narrative.
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Transcript
Evan: And if you're actually interested in the Left of Projector mug,
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Speaker:ward: I didn't even know you sold mugs. I've been just hoping to get one for free this whole time.
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Speaker:ward: Dude, I do so much more promo for your podcast than you do.
Speaker:Evan: And you can also buy a t-shirt that says, Before reading Marx,
Speaker:Evan: I couldn't even spell bourgeoisie, and I still can't. And it's spelled wrong, obviously.
Speaker:ward: Oh, this is too funny.
Speaker:Evan: See this is the part that goes at the beginning actually yeah.
Speaker:ward: Why am i just now learning this how long have we been coming on this.
Speaker:Evan: I actually i actually have the uh i do have the left foot projector uh tank
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Speaker:Evan: Hello and welcome to Left of the Projector. I'm your host, Evan,
Speaker:Evan: back again for another film discussion from the left.
Speaker:Evan: We come to you this week with a little mini-series from the team that brought to you the Andor series.
Speaker:Evan: If you're a long-time listener, you may have heard the guests and I discuss
Speaker:Evan: Gareth Edwards at length. He did direct the, or part of, Rogue One,
Speaker:Evan: as well as four other films.
Speaker:Evan: We begin our discussion this week with his very first work, Monsters,
Speaker:Evan: a low-budget, $500,000 film released in 2010.
Speaker:Evan: It only consists of two featured cast actors.
Speaker:Evan: Edwards also served as the writer, the cinematographer, and special effects guru.
Speaker:Evan: This film was slim, just seven people on the crew, but we have three people
Speaker:Evan: to help you discuss that. I have Bill and Ward, thank you for being here today.
Speaker:ward: Happy to be here.
Speaker:Bill: As always, happy to be here.
Speaker:Evan: So if you're listening if you listen to last week's episode actually you're
Speaker:Evan: gonna hear the three of us talk for two straight weeks because that's just that's
Speaker:Evan: just how it's just how it all that's how the cookie crumbled with uh vacation
Speaker:Evan: in august and uh not having other episodes but,
Speaker:Evan: we'll bring you a banger here today um so gareth edwards and monster um what
Speaker:Evan: are your uh thoughts on this film that I had.
Speaker:Evan: I literally knew nothing about it before I went in.
Speaker:Evan: And I was pleasantly surprised.
Speaker:ward: Yeah, I knew nothing. I mean, yeah, you guys had to tell me about this movie
Speaker:ward: and I had to watch it just before recording.
Speaker:ward: And yeah, I was, my expectation was blown away. This was a great movie.
Speaker:ward: I can't wait to talk about it.
Speaker:Bill: I've never felt so hipster-ish. I've watched this movie many times.
Speaker:Bill: This is like a, this is an old like favorite of mine. it's all bills so much
Speaker:Bill: cooler than us this is an old favorite of mine i've watched it many times uh
Speaker:Bill: uh and it's like it really is it's like it's a favorite of mine i love giant
Speaker:Bill: monster movies um i love sci-fi and uh,
Speaker:Bill: I watched this movie the first time years and years ago when it came out,
Speaker:Bill: and I've watched it many times since.
Speaker:Evan: How did Bill burn his tongue? He tasted pizza before it was cool.
Speaker:Bill: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker:Evan: It's interesting because most people know Gareth Edwards probably for Rogue
Speaker:Evan: One, for the Godzilla film sort of reboot, and just recently,
Speaker:Evan: most recently, Jurassic World Rebirth.
Speaker:Evan: and then in between those we have we have the creator
Speaker:Evan: which got less acclaim than the other ones
Speaker:Evan: but it's um it's like a
Speaker:Evan: from what i read about what he did is he had
Speaker:Evan: wanted to make that film for a while he'd been working on it and
Speaker:Evan: he finally got his chance to do it he only had five hundred thousand
Speaker:Evan: dollars and he did all the editing on
Speaker:Evan: a laptop he did all the special effects on a laptop i mean
Speaker:Evan: it's like as low budget as you can possibly imagine
Speaker:Evan: and it's the like the first thing i wrote down when i
Speaker:Evan: was watching it was that it's like this it seemed
Speaker:Evan: like a godzilla offshoot or a war of the worlds offshoot or just sort of a a
Speaker:Evan: monster film where you don't ever really understand the monster and this is
Speaker:Evan: like it's almost like a steven spielberg trailer where he where if this is a
Speaker:Evan: monster movie he has he never reveals what it's going to look like it's well,
Speaker:Evan: you have to go see the movie.
Speaker:Evan: But in this, there really isn't really much of a monster. It's kind of like the threat of monsters.
Speaker:Evan: And I think I called the movie Monster at the beginning when it's monsters.
Speaker:Bill: It's monsters, yeah. You don't see them very often. You see them, I think, twice.
Speaker:Bill: Maybe three times in the entire movie.
Speaker:Bill: And it really does hark into the classic movie, classic horror movie and sci-fi movies of the 80s.
Speaker:Bill: And even before that, where it was like, you don't have the budget or you don't
Speaker:Bill: have the technology to create this thing.
Speaker:Bill: And so you leave it to like the, the best monster, the,
Speaker:Bill: the best you know special effects that you can have is
Speaker:Bill: your audience's imagination and that is what
Speaker:Bill: he does he you know sound a lot of it's you know evocative you know through
Speaker:Bill: evoking the the monsters through sound and then just the reactions of people
Speaker:Bill: and that builds them up in ways that he wasn't going to be able to do it 500
Speaker:Bill: 000 at all he just wasn't gonna do it and really they're,
Speaker:Bill: the monsters as i'm sure we'll talk about and what they look like are not the
Speaker:Bill: most important part of this movie by a long like by a wide margin.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah it's like as i was like saying like it's more like the threat of them and
Speaker:Evan: the existence of them in this world and let me i'll give like everyone like
Speaker:Evan: a brief sort of uh synopsis because that this movie is probably you know very
Speaker:Evan: under watched as far as this era goes.
Speaker:Evan: But it takes place primarily in Mexico, or begins in Mexico,
Speaker:Evan: but they kind of take you back to when NASA sends a probe out to verify the
Speaker:Evan: existence of extraterrestrial life.
Speaker:Evan: And then in doing so, this probe crash lands in Mexico, and it brings along
Speaker:Evan: with it these extraterrestrial life forms, and they start to spread.
Speaker:Evan: And essentially, there's now an area between mexico and
Speaker:Evan: the united states and not just you know the border it's now
Speaker:Evan: become this quarantine zone and it essentially becomes
Speaker:Evan: a battle zone where you have u.s troops mexican troops
Speaker:Evan: are trying to contain contain the creatures and you
Speaker:Evan: just sort of learn this at the beginning and they're just kind of setting the stage
Speaker:Evan: and to kind of show you a little bit what it looks like in this world uh but
Speaker:Evan: it's again you don't really see them you just understand this and i also immediately
Speaker:Evan: was like is this movie like a stand-in for like the immigration crisis i mean
Speaker:Evan: we can probably talk about some of those things is it.
Speaker:ward: I mean if you're asking me i don't know
Speaker:ward: how much gareth edwards put into it i mean he pretty i'm pretty sure like the
Speaker:ward: easy guess is to be like yeah there's not a lot of monsters in it because it's
Speaker:ward: easier to make a monster movie without including the monsters especially for
Speaker:ward: five hundred thousand dollars which is crazy um but But,
Speaker:ward: you know, for me, it's like the lack of monsters.
Speaker:ward: It helps build up like the misdirect that it's like, they're just things, you know?
Speaker:Evan: Apparently he, according to the Wikipedia, and I found another article that
Speaker:Evan: said this too, that he decided to use kind of like the found footage style.
Speaker:Evan: So there's lots of reports on TVs and ways that they're relaying you information
Speaker:Evan: about things as like the Blair Witch Project. Kind of that very,
Speaker:Evan: I don't really think they're at all alike other than just kind of the,
Speaker:Evan: maybe the found footage.
Speaker:Evan: And then also I think he learned about the Cloverfield, which has kind of a
Speaker:Evan: similar premise of this.
Speaker:Evan: I won't ruin that movie at all if I haven't seen it, but.
Speaker:Evan: This would be a good double feature with Cloverfield, actually.
Speaker:Bill: Yeah, Cloverfield actually had a bit of an impact on things because,
Speaker:Bill: well, Cloverfield and War of the Worlds, the War of the Worlds with Tom Cruise.
Speaker:Bill: Because he was developing the idea around the time that those came out.
Speaker:Bill: And he kind of put this all off because he was like, well, it's just,
Speaker:Bill: it's too similar. It's not going to have any impact or anything like that.
Speaker:Bill: And I like Cloverfield.
Speaker:Bill: To be fair, I haven't seen Cloverfield since it was in the theaters.
Speaker:Bill: And I actually really like the Tom Cruise War in the World.
Speaker:Bill: But this movie, to me, has such a greater impact and more to say than either of those movies.
Speaker:Bill: War of the Worlds has been done to death. We've seen a thousand War of the Worlds.
Speaker:Bill: Most recently, with Ice-T. the worst.
Speaker:Evan: Movie you've ever.
Speaker:Bill: Seen in your entire life.
Speaker:ward: I still haven't watched it.
Speaker:Bill: You know like war the worlds have been done to death like that the the
Speaker:Bill: allegory of that war of the worlds
Speaker:Bill: presents has been just beat to shit
Speaker:Bill: you know even independence day is essentially just the same you know it is it
Speaker:Bill: is the story of war the worlds it's a virus that kills them like you know it's
Speaker:Bill: like it's just now it's a computer virus you know it's all the same you know
Speaker:Bill: and And that's so not the point of this movie at all. At all.
Speaker:Evan: He said it. His quote was he changed the movie because of those to being something.
Speaker:Evan: A war is going on somewhere on the other side of the world and no one cares.
Speaker:Evan: Which, let's be honest, that is exactly what happens always.
Speaker:Evan: No one cares about things that happen anyways because it doesn't affect them.
Speaker:ward: Yeah, no, that's what happens with every war, especially if you're an American
Speaker:ward: living in the Imperial Corps. It's not affecting you. Why would you care?
Speaker:ward: I don't know. But for me, it's, I don't know, it's so great.
Speaker:ward: It's just, this film's so good.
Speaker:ward: It just has so much more to say, especially about, like, the way capitalism handles crisis.
Speaker:ward: And, you know, and like creates its own crisis because like these aliens, you know, they're not.
Speaker:ward: Yeah, they're violent, but I mean, not inherently.
Speaker:ward: We find that out. It's made to be that way so it could justify the,
Speaker:ward: you know, this infinite military spending.
Speaker:Evan: To me, it's just like a metaphor in a way. I don't again, I don't think that
Speaker:Evan: Gareth meant this is like a metaphor for just American imperialism.
Speaker:Evan: We cause problems on the places. The people who live there get fucked over.
Speaker:Evan: They need to migrate to us because they don't want to get bombed anymore.
Speaker:Evan: And then they don't have the money or the abilities or the means to be able
Speaker:Evan: to do that. And then we don't care what we do over there.
Speaker:Evan: No one thinks about it. No one thinks about the damage we've done across Latin America.
Speaker:ward: Or the fact that our military actually exacerbates these problems.
Speaker:ward: Because, I mean, you can see in the film that the bombing that the U.S.
Speaker:ward: military is doing is wildly indiscriminate. It's not actually affecting anything.
Speaker:ward: If anything, it's just making these creatures more aggressive when they just want to fuck.
Speaker:Evan: Do you think that the gas that they drop on them is making it worse?
Speaker:Bill: The gas affects the population of the area far more than it does to contain the aliens.
Speaker:Bill: Because the truth of the matter is that, you know, though they talk a lot about
Speaker:Bill: the monsters and the aliens, but the reality is that it's not just the individual aliens.
Speaker:Bill: they've basically brought an ecology with them and they are affecting the landscape itself.
Speaker:Bill: They're affecting the ecology of that entire place. And,
Speaker:Bill: As like Western mentality and thought, like you can't, the world has to change
Speaker:Bill: and adapt to you and you, so you can manage it and you can take what you want from it.
Speaker:Bill: And it can never like have its own like volition. And that's really what this is.
Speaker:Bill: It's like, they're denying the possibility of the environment changing.
Speaker:Bill: And so they're trying to contain change because it threatens the status quo.
Speaker:Bill: It's really all what it is. it's all about threatening the status quo and then
Speaker:Bill: if you look at the people in the area they're not fleeing the aliens they're
Speaker:Bill: fleeing the military like.
Speaker:Evan: It's implied.
Speaker:Bill: Throughout the movie that the aliens are
Speaker:Bill: not the threat to the people like even so down to the point that
Speaker:Bill: like they travel through that thing and the the
Speaker:Bill: guides that take them through the infected zone are never like oh yeah you know
Speaker:Bill: the aliens are always killing us all the time like just like oh yeah you know
Speaker:Bill: just uh be quiet and don't bother them like the people of the area are basically
Speaker:Bill: like this the real problem is it's a military it's the fact that they're gassing us.
Speaker:Evan: Well and and so the like to add on
Speaker:Evan: to the plot to make it more obvious so the
Speaker:Evan: you have but you have two characters in this film it's like
Speaker:Evan: in total they have um andrew and
Speaker:Evan: you have samantha andrew is a photographer who works
Speaker:Evan: for a newspaper which is owned by
Speaker:Evan: samantha's father so he essentially learns
Speaker:Evan: of her being you know in the hospital he sends
Speaker:Evan: the photographer andrew to pick her
Speaker:Evan: up and get her to safety bring her back to america and his entire time doing
Speaker:Evan: this is he needs to take a photograph of like the monsters doing killing like
Speaker:Evan: a kid or a person to sell this to be to be able to live to live and And so the
Speaker:Evan: thing I was not lost on me,
Speaker:Evan: my thought there was the reason why there isn't many pictures to be had is because
Speaker:Evan: the monsters aren't actually killing or hurting anybody.
Speaker:Evan: Right. They're not, they're not doing this unless they're provoked or they're,
Speaker:Evan: you know, all of this, but it's very interesting.
Speaker:Evan: The, uh, you know, the two characters being sort of this working class guy,
Speaker:Evan: he's just trying to make a living.
Speaker:Evan: He has a kid back home in America. He's just trying to get a $15,000 photo shot to, to make his career.
Speaker:Evan: And then you have this woman who's sort of rich and, uh, entitled and,
Speaker:Evan: uh, white does kind of usually go together.
Speaker:Evan: Um, and I keep saying, and, and he has to take care of her specifically.
Speaker:Bill: So when they're traveling, she asks him about this. And he says,
Speaker:Bill: let me ask you something.
Speaker:Bill: Do you know how much money your father's company pays for a picture of a child
Speaker:Bill: killed by a creature? $50,000.
Speaker:Bill: Do you know how much money I get paid for a picture of a happy child?
Speaker:Bill: Nothing. Do you know where that puts me? Photographing tragedy.
Speaker:Bill: And yet, he can't find that tragedy outside of it being artificially created.
Speaker:Bill: Any of the tragedies, all the tragedy that we see that he does photograph in
Speaker:Bill: this movie are created by the military.
Speaker:Bill: Like, every time. It's their fault.
Speaker:ward: And whether Gareth Edwards means it or not, which I really don't think he means it much.
Speaker:ward: I mean, Andrew is a perfect example of the commodification of media to manufacture consent.
Speaker:Evan: I think he had an idea that he was like being used in some way i don't want
Speaker:Evan: to i don't know i mean it's kind of a liberal-ish take on it i suppose but it's
Speaker:Evan: i don't know i'm trying to give him a little credit andrew or gareth no no gareth edwards see.
Speaker:Bill: I think having watched every gareth edwards movie at this point.
Speaker:Evan: There are five of them folks yeah.
Speaker:Bill: There's not that many of But you know what? There's a pretty fucking, there's a through line.
Speaker:Bill: I don't think the man is ignorant to the things he's saying.
Speaker:Bill: I don't think he's accidentally telling anti-imperialist stories repeatedly.
Speaker:Bill: Like, I don't think he's stumbling into anti-imperialism five times in a row.
Speaker:ward: All right, Garrett Edwards, come on the podcast and talk to us.
Speaker:Bill: All right. So I will say the newest Jurassic Park movie, probably not the greatest example of that.
Speaker:Bill: So I don't think, all right, three out of five times. I'm going to give him
Speaker:Bill: a solid three out of five times. I don't think he stumbled into anti-imperialist
Speaker:Bill: rhetoric, like blatant anti-imperialist.
Speaker:Evan: What's the other one he didn't do it in?
Speaker:Bill: The other, he did the other Jurassic Park. Oh, no, I'm thinking of.
Speaker:Evan: No, the other one will be. the creator, creator, Godzilla, this,
Speaker:Evan: and Rogue One, so four out of five.
Speaker:Bill: It's four. Four out of five of them. I don't think he's stumbled into this four
Speaker:Bill: out of five times. I don't think so.
Speaker:Evan: I buy that.
Speaker:ward: No, I'm going to double down until he comes on the podcast. Okay.
Speaker:Evan: Well, no, but here you also, there's a line that happens right before that that's also interesting.
Speaker:Evan: He says, she says to him, like, you need something bad to happen to profit.
Speaker:Evan: And he's like, no, I need something bad to happen for me to live.
Speaker:Evan: Like, he's just a photography worker. He's a working class guy in horrible conditions
Speaker:Evan: because that's all he is able to do.
Speaker:Evan: I'm sure he'd love to take like artsy photos of things and like make money.
Speaker:Bill: Actually, what he said is.
Speaker:ward: He deflected first.
Speaker:Bill: You mean like a doctor.
Speaker:ward: Like a doctor?
Speaker:Bill: That's actually what he says first. You mean like a doctor.
Speaker:ward: She calls him out and she's like, you know what I fucking mean.
Speaker:Bill: Yeah, because honestly, like that in and of itself, like I feel like that says
Speaker:Bill: everything. Because even the character knows.
Speaker:Bill: The character knows. like that's metatextually
Speaker:Bill: acknowledging the bullshit of it like even
Speaker:Bill: the characters acknowledging this that you know the two characters as they're
Speaker:Bill: discussing this even they're acknowledging the perversity of the system and
Speaker:Bill: he's trying to deflect from it because that's an uncomfortable thing to admit
Speaker:Bill: and then he he's forced to admit it because there's a huge difference between.
Speaker:Evan: Meanwhile, her dad works for a newspaper who also manufactures consent and profits
Speaker:Evan: off of tragedy in the same similar way. We don't know much about the paper.
Speaker:Bill: You know the b plot okay of the
Speaker:Bill: movie that i think is easy to overlook but i
Speaker:Bill: think it's also important is the fact that
Speaker:Bill: she doesn't want to go back she is
Speaker:Bill: clearly resisting going back and she
Speaker:Bill: has recently been engaged to a very wealthy
Speaker:Bill: man that she does not want to go back to and
Speaker:Bill: he doesn't like frantically he's
Speaker:Bill: not there like this is a rich guy he's not
Speaker:Bill: like i am poor and if my wife was stuck in mexico i'd be like well i'm going
Speaker:Bill: to mexico like yeah i'm figuring it out yeah like i'm going and like meanwhile
Speaker:Bill: like this guy's just like what fucking i don't know i don't know what he's doing
Speaker:Bill: being a ceo someplace i know.
Speaker:ward: I'll see you when you get back honey.
Speaker:Bill: No i'm.
Speaker:ward: Stuck here did you not hear that fucking part.
Speaker:Bill: And like did.
Speaker:Evan: You say how did she get there why is she there.
Speaker:Bill: You never learned any of this she is there
Speaker:Bill: because do they say uh it is implied that
Speaker:Bill: she is there uh basically because she
Speaker:Bill: it's she wants to see yeah
Speaker:Bill: like she wants to she wants she's basically trying
Speaker:Bill: to escape her like reality and
Speaker:Bill: like her life of privilege she's basically
Speaker:Bill: fleeing her life of privilege that's what's there and like throughout the movie
Speaker:Bill: because throughout the movie so this man has been all over the place but he
Speaker:Bill: just observes everybody throughout the movie though who is the person that connects
Speaker:Bill: with the population speaks their language goes out of their way to make connections
Speaker:Bill: with the individuals that live there,
Speaker:Bill: her, the entire thing is like, she wants to leave behind her life of privilege
Speaker:Bill: and identifies with people who are oppressed and exploited.
Speaker:Bill: She sympathizes and wants better for them.
Speaker:ward: Oh, we watched anti-imperialist Titanic. Or is he a boat?
Speaker:Evan: Oh, I'd rather watch this than Titanic, though.
Speaker:ward: Oh, yeah, this is so good.
Speaker:Bill: Throughout it, she is the one. She speaks Spanish.
Speaker:Bill: He doesn't speak any Spanish. She speaks fluent Spanish and talks to everybody.
Speaker:Bill: you know like she she the locals they all welcome her in because of the way
Speaker:Bill: she is she clearly is like she doesn't she has seen the system that she lives
Speaker:Bill: in and has rejected it and this is her attempt to flee it and she's.
Speaker:Evan: Being dragged.
Speaker:Bill: Back to it by her father through.
Speaker:Evan: Like there's numerous sort of
Speaker:Evan: stops along the way and i think some of them maybe
Speaker:Evan: even all of them are like worth mentioning so then initially they
Speaker:Evan: get on a train he goes to the hospital he picks her up they get
Speaker:Evan: on a train to try and get to a boat which will
Speaker:Evan: be able to take them back to the united states and
Speaker:Evan: they the train like breaks down or like there something happens they have to
Speaker:Evan: get off the train now that's when they we first learned that she speaks spanish
Speaker:Evan: she's able to connect with the locals and has a place to stay for the night
Speaker:Evan: and where they're able to that i think they get maybe they get a bus first and
Speaker:Evan: then they go a little further along the journey but finally when they get to the, like the, the,
Speaker:Evan: the place where they could catch the ferry,
Speaker:Evan: it's $5,000 to go on it.
Speaker:Evan: And you see all these other people in the, in the train station,
Speaker:Evan: like that's a train station, like the, what do you call it?
Speaker:Evan: The port, the ferry port office who are all going to be finding other ways to
Speaker:Evan: go through the quarantine zone because they can't afford the $5,000 to do this.
Speaker:Evan: And this, this is where I saw like the kind of that like immigration concept of
Speaker:Evan: like people looking for a better life perhaps but it's
Speaker:Evan: not very clear or it is very clear
Speaker:Evan: that they're leaving because of the military as you said before bill like
Speaker:Evan: they're they have to leave there because it's now a war zone they don't have
Speaker:Evan: five thousand dollars so they're gonna have to take their chances you know getting
Speaker:Evan: like people do right now every day every day you know our president uh the president
Speaker:Evan: not my well he is our president i don't like him much trump obama biden like they're all doing this,
Speaker:Evan: the deportation and getting people out.
Speaker:Evan: So we cause the problems and then we don't let anyone in to escape them.
Speaker:Bill: And we create the area they have to flee through that is increasingly deadly to the policies of the.
Speaker:Bill: our country. Like the infected zone is an almost perfect analogy for,
Speaker:Bill: I forget what they call it, but like the zone, I think it's literally just the zone of death.
Speaker:Evan: Quarantine zone.
Speaker:Bill: No, no, no, no. In real life.
Speaker:Evan: Oh, in real life. Yeah, okay.
Speaker:Bill: In real life, that area where migrants pass through that is so deadly and they
Speaker:Bill: have deliberately increased policies to funnel people through that area.
Speaker:Bill: Like that's what the quarantine zone, the infected zone is it is an area of
Speaker:Bill: increased deadliness created by imperialist policies,
Speaker:Bill: that people have to flee through to get to that place as a result of imperialist
Speaker:Bill: actions in the first place.
Speaker:ward: Yeah because we we learned the aliens aren't inherently aggressive you know
Speaker:ward: they're just creatures with their own desires and behaviors you know what i
Speaker:ward: mean and it's not it's the military that's causing these issues and creating
Speaker:ward: this area where people are left behind to fend for themselves and being discarded.
Speaker:Evan: Well you said before bill that the chemicals that are being dropped
Speaker:Evan: are actually hurting the you know humans but i
Speaker:Evan: even wondered right but i wondered if it's even
Speaker:Evan: implied or if there's any you know like you
Speaker:Evan: could think of disasters like uh chernobyl where the the chemicals create or
Speaker:Evan: mutate animals and species like is it possible that they're actually making
Speaker:Evan: it worse and making these animals or these aliens sort of more aggressive and
Speaker:Evan: causing them more chances that they're going to fucking try and kill them. I don't know.
Speaker:Bill: I believe it's said by the guides that they get aggressive.
Speaker:Evan: When they show them the tree?
Speaker:Bill: Yeah. Around that time when like around the time when they're like camping and
Speaker:Bill: the guides mention how like basically the bombs drive the monsters crazy.
Speaker:Bill: They drive them crazy and they get them like riled up and that the passing through
Speaker:Bill: of the military, like actually exacerbates their behavior and makes it more problematic.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah.
Speaker:Bill: Whether the gas is mutating things, I don't know.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah, maybe that's, I mean, that's...
Speaker:ward: But it's also totally U.S. military to use chemical weapons once they get the chance.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah, we don't, U.S. doesn't pass up a chance to drop some new experimental
Speaker:Evan: chemical on a civilian population.
Speaker:ward: I mean, we can see how much money they dumped into that fucking wall in the movie.
Speaker:Evan: Oh, God.
Speaker:Bill: Yeah.
Speaker:Evan: Well, yeah, we'll definitely get to it.
Speaker:ward: They got to keep up the crisis so they can keep that budget up.
Speaker:Evan: And you said, Bill, that Samantha doesn't really want to go home.
Speaker:Evan: I think it's, actually, there was a moment that I'm now thinking of.
Speaker:Evan: So they had bought the ticket for $5,000.
Speaker:Evan: The guy's like, he's like, how about $3,000? No, it's $5,000.
Speaker:Evan: They pay the $5,000. Also, where did he get five grand? I don't really know.
Speaker:Evan: He gives them the $5,000. They go out drinking. He gets really drunk.
Speaker:Evan: He ends up picking up a woman.
Speaker:Evan: And that person steals her passport because for some reason,
Speaker:Evan: she let him have the passport or whatever.
Speaker:Evan: That was kind of stupid. But you could tell he was anyway, because of that,
Speaker:Evan: then they have to then pawn her ready, her like engagement ring to be able to go on the ship.
Speaker:Evan: And there was like this little moment where I'm thinking where I saw her being
Speaker:Evan: like, well, maybe I just don't want maybe I'm just I'm like relieved that I don't have to go.
Speaker:Evan: It's not a lot, but maybe, you know, I don't really want to give my ring away.
Speaker:Evan: But at the same time, almost giving away the engagement ring is almost like a relief.
Speaker:Evan: She can like take it off and maybe not feel engaged anymore.
Speaker:Evan: I'm sure her dad like made her get engaged to whoever this bozo is.
Speaker:ward: Yeah, I think like the only thing really like pushing her at that time is like,
Speaker:ward: you know, the manufactured fear of what the aliens could do.
Speaker:ward: Like that was the whole thread of that. I think that was the only reason that
Speaker:ward: pushed her to be like, yeah, I'll give up my engagement ring.
Speaker:ward: We'll go on this journey to try to get back because I don't want to get caught
Speaker:ward: up in an alien monster storm.
Speaker:ward: But then when she comes to find out.
Speaker:ward: you know they're just just animals like anything else she's like yeah i don't want to fucking leave.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah the um the i think
Speaker:Evan: this is too when you like one of the first times you
Speaker:Evan: see the monster is they end up as part
Speaker:Evan: of the you know using their wedding ring this is
Speaker:Evan: now it's not to go on the boat but to be able to hire
Speaker:Evan: someone to guide them through you know
Speaker:Evan: through this infected zone and one of the things they get onto is like a boat
Speaker:Evan: to get them through like a you know further along whatever it is a river or
Speaker:Evan: something titanic and they see one of the monsters like in in the water but
Speaker:Evan: what's even funnier is they first think it's like some kind of shark or like
Speaker:Evan: monster ends up being just like the plane that the u.s had used to presumably behind her jet that.
Speaker:ward: Was so sick.
Speaker:Bill: That was a great scene.
Speaker:Evan: Which is such a good and then it turns you know then the monster
Speaker:Evan: is actually you know the one grabbing it and like
Speaker:Evan: oh they can fucking swim too it's like oh you guys are fucked yeah i
Speaker:Evan: just like the idea that the plane is there it's just like the perfect metaphor
Speaker:Evan: too which again i think plays into the idea that edwards does see some of this
Speaker:Evan: of just like the ineptitude of the u.s military sunk in there they can't actually
Speaker:Evan: stop the the monsters there's nothing they can even do that.
Speaker:ward: That and also it's just setting up that it's like like when you're watching
Speaker:ward: it for the first time you're seeing it and you're like a whole monster attacking
Speaker:ward: a thing yeah of course the monster is attacking a thing but then you learn more
Speaker:ward: of it it's it's great because it sets it up it just shows that like no they
Speaker:ward: got a problem with the military.
Speaker:Evan: There was something ironic about the idea
Speaker:Evan: of two white people hiring mexicans
Speaker:Evan: to smuggle them into the united states this way
Speaker:Evan: like it just like i couldn't help but just i
Speaker:Evan: think you bill mentioned before like just the idea like they're
Speaker:Evan: the privilege but in a way it's actually not samantha's
Speaker:Evan: privilege it's more andrew's privilege i
Speaker:Evan: didn't mention who they're played by it's scooter mcnary you probably have seen
Speaker:Evan: in a bunch of films and movies uh he was in uh the batman superman argo um can't
Speaker:Evan: think of what else some netflix shows but he's the one who acts much more privileged
Speaker:Evan: than she does and she's like the wealthy one.
Speaker:Bill: Yeah well that's what's like she wants to
Speaker:Bill: leave that behind like they're the the the juxtaposition
Speaker:Bill: of their characters because she comes from a place
Speaker:Bill: of privilege and she has come to a point where she's seen what it is and wants
Speaker:Bill: to leave it behind he has never had that other you know like other than base
Speaker:Bill: of like white privilege but in terms like economic privilege class privilege
Speaker:Bill: he's never had that and he wants it and it's like,
Speaker:Bill: This conversation between them throughout, it's like, you know,
Speaker:Bill: it's almost like she sets it up throughout. It's like, it's a poison pill.
Speaker:Bill: Like, you should be more, you should be class conscious, basically.
Speaker:Bill: That conversation about photographing tragedy, that's a conversation about class
Speaker:Bill: consciousness. That's what she's having with him.
Speaker:Bill: In her very initial grasping of it, of understanding, she's saying,
Speaker:Bill: she's like, you should reject this.
Speaker:Bill: You should not play into this. You should not do this.
Speaker:Evan: She doesn't have the understanding to go any further, any deeper,
Speaker:Evan: which you wouldn't really expect them to.
Speaker:Evan: That's not kind of the point. I also didn't realize that the two of them were
Speaker:Evan: actually married. yes they.
Speaker:Bill: Got married in 2010.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah the movie came out march 13th 2010 at least that was a south by southwest
Speaker:Evan: release and they got married in june and then the movie was fully released in
Speaker:Evan: december in the united kingdom this didn't even have a u.s release which is
Speaker:Evan: probably why it's so like underseen mostly i think in the united states in general.
Speaker:Bill: Their marriage is definitely a uh a show ship.
Speaker:Evan: And they are divorced now though.
Speaker:Bill: Yes sorry about that guys well you know i mean i assume in real life he has
Speaker:Bill: actual he's allowed to acknowledge his children as his unlike his character
Speaker:Bill: who's not allowed to actually be seen as the father of his child his character's kind of sad yeah.
Speaker:Evan: Character is a really big bummer.
Speaker:Bill: His character is yeah he's a bummer he's sad.
Speaker:ward: Yeah and he starts off dislikable too you know hitting on the woman that he knows is engaged.
Speaker:Bill: Yeah and then you like really start to like you you kind of like you come around
Speaker:Bill: on him and you start to understand like where he's coming from,
Speaker:Bill: like why he is the way he is. And it's, it's sad.
Speaker:Bill: He's, it's a sad story. He's a sad character.
Speaker:Bill: And so is shade. Like they, they both are in a lot of ways.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah. I mean, you, you learn that he has a kid, you know, where he was seeing someone just briefly.
Speaker:Evan: He isn't allowed to like, the kid doesn't know that it's his dad.
Speaker:Evan: Although he was like calling him, you know, to leave a message for his birthday
Speaker:Evan: or whatever. It's like, why would this random dude be calling me?
Speaker:Evan: I mean, the kid's young enough that maybe doesn't quite understand,
Speaker:Evan: but I assume when they're older, they're going to realize, okay,
Speaker:Evan: I like, I kind of look like uncle, you know, uncle, a little bit more than,
Speaker:Evan: you know, uncle Andrew than whatever her dad's name is.
Speaker:Evan: but it's yeah it's like this it's interesting
Speaker:Evan: when you see like a lot of movies about people
Speaker:Evan: who like are trying to get a story for a newspaper you know like their reporter
Speaker:Evan: or something like that i think of like salvador and some others but this being
Speaker:Evan: a photographer it's like such a different uh i don't know it was an interesting
Speaker:Evan: choice to do it that way because it could have been a reporter i don't know
Speaker:Evan: but i guess it plays much better this way.
Speaker:ward: Yeah i really enjoyed like all the interactions was
Speaker:ward: sam and andrew like at the beginning it's like
Speaker:ward: rough it just makes andrew really dislikable but
Speaker:ward: like i love like you know
Speaker:ward: talking about photography and she just pushes him the only
Speaker:ward: thing it really made me wish for was when later in
Speaker:ward: the film andrew's like oh like what do you think it's going to be like you know
Speaker:ward: when we're out of all this and we're back into our suburban homes and then like
Speaker:ward: she's just like oh let's talk about something fun instead I would have wished
Speaker:ward: that he pushed her and then got a real answer from her on her desires before...
Speaker:ward: a little bit later.
Speaker:Evan: You must realize that she seems unhappy no i.
Speaker:Bill: I think he does he's not entirely dumb yeah.
Speaker:Evan: No yeah and she's not.
Speaker:Bill: Incorrect she's not she's not that subtle about it.
Speaker:Evan: No there she's definitely not and um
Speaker:Evan: like the to go
Speaker:Evan: back to the photography thing briefly is that when they do end
Speaker:Evan: up within like the woods and that scene you're talking about a little later with like the
Speaker:Evan: guides they end up getting attacked by the monsters and
Speaker:Evan: everyone dies except for them they're able to like hide in
Speaker:Evan: the back of the car it also seems like they like light
Speaker:Evan: also attracts them right yeah they're attracted like it's yes he's like holding
Speaker:Evan: the little light on in the like the car ceiling to prevent them from seeing
Speaker:Evan: him and then later the tv is on she returns off the tv to get the monster to
Speaker:Evan: go away but then he stages the kid who had died to take the photo and it's like oh this Again,
Speaker:Evan: this photo can only exist not only if you stage it or if you go to a different
Speaker:Evan: war zone. You know, I don't know.
Speaker:Evan: It's like he's literally staging and she sees him doing it. And she doesn't
Speaker:Evan: really, like, say anything, right? She just kind of, like, looks at him.
Speaker:Bill: Yeah, but there's, like, definitely, like, there, she's a good,
Speaker:Bill: like, she hasn't done a lot. She's a good actor.
Speaker:Bill: Like, she acts the shit out of this. and like
Speaker:Bill: there is a lot of like unspoken like emotion
Speaker:Bill: in that moment where like he acknowledges that
Speaker:Bill: she is judging him and she judges him and it's very clear and it's like but
Speaker:Bill: also like in the same way like she is also understands to a certain degree like
Speaker:Bill: what his conditions are like where his circumstances are she doesn't like that's
Speaker:Bill: why that's why i think she doesn't say anything.
Speaker:Bill: She doesn't need to but also like,
Speaker:Bill: it would be unkind to because she understands
Speaker:Bill: they've had that conversation already she and
Speaker:Bill: she knows who he is at this point that he like has a kid
Speaker:Bill: that he can't connect with that he loves that he's
Speaker:Bill: separated from you know and can't acknowledge the relationship and here's this
Speaker:Bill: like who started as kind of like an unlikable person who's just like a guy who
Speaker:Bill: worked for her father and now it's just like a real human being and who has
Speaker:Bill: to make like shitty decisions well.
Speaker:Evan: He's also being forced to right like.
Speaker:Bill: He has he loses.
Speaker:Evan: His job if he.
Speaker:Bill: Yeah the.
Speaker:Evan: Job that sucks and doesn't pay anything anyway.
Speaker:Bill: Yeah he.
Speaker:Evan: Loses that job.
Speaker:ward: Yeah he literally yells it's an ultimatum over the phone.
Speaker:Bill: Yeah and they.
Speaker:Evan: Don't say this but i wonder if other photographers had also gone there and potentially
Speaker:Evan: you know trying to get the same kind of photos and have either died or you know
Speaker:Evan: left because they were unable to do it it doesn't seem like they've ever actually
Speaker:Evan: in the six years It seems like they've never actually gotten the,
Speaker:Evan: you know, the newspaper money shot.
Speaker:Bill: Yeah, there seems to be a real dearth of, you know, documented evidence of of
Speaker:Bill: this incredibly dangerous thing that has to be quarantined in an entire area and bombed.
Speaker:Bill: There seems to be a real thin on the ground evidence of all that.
Speaker:ward: Yeah.
Speaker:Evan: Are you saying that the government is lying and not doing?
Speaker:ward: Oh, we never say that.
Speaker:Bill: I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't bad mouth even fictional,
Speaker:Bill: fictional American government.
Speaker:Evan: Well, it, I mean, it's not the purview of this film, but it's interesting.
Speaker:Evan: Like they could have, you know, if they, if like the thing that they,
Speaker:Evan: we learn later from the people who are like the locals that they seem to like
Speaker:Evan: have a fungus or some kind of, you know, some kind of thing that grows on the
Speaker:Evan: tree and then it goes out to lay its eggs and they grow up in that way.
Speaker:Evan: Like you easily could have like learn something about them, study them,
Speaker:Evan: you know, capture the egg. I don't know. I mean.
Speaker:ward: Quite easily.
Speaker:Evan: Not torture them, but like learn something about them.
Speaker:ward: Yeah, but that doesn't justify military spending.
Speaker:Evan: Department of War needs its war.
Speaker:ward: Exactly. Yeah. You know, and like you're saying that they're attracted to light.
Speaker:ward: The thing is they're attracted to light.
Speaker:ward: Yeah. So like, yeah, you're just trying to drive through, but sorry,
Speaker:ward: you got headlights on and uh it's mating season you're.
Speaker:Evan: Gonna get fucked then you start shooting.
Speaker:ward: At it oh now it's a problem.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah and they they show what like one or two of them that are dead
Speaker:Evan: right they have one like kind of like on a an area that's dead
Speaker:Evan: you see a little bit and then the other real only other op times really see
Speaker:Evan: it is in the in the um the gas station where they're kind of hiding out when
Speaker:Evan: they finally have you know gotten across the border and we'll go back and talk
Speaker:Evan: about that wall too but they finally get across and or they finally get across and,
Speaker:Evan: They come across two of them, like, you know, outside of the thing,
Speaker:Evan: and they just want to be left in peace and make out.
Speaker:ward: Yeah, it's mating season, you know? It's not them getting aggressive.
Speaker:ward: It's mating season. Why does it always happen at the same time of year? It's mating season.
Speaker:ward: Why did that thing have its tentacles all inside the gas station that had the lights on?
Speaker:ward: Because they glow during mating season, and they glow and communicate.
Speaker:ward: Like, that's part of their anatomy and biology.
Speaker:Evan: Maybe she was pregnant and needed some ice cream or something.
Speaker:ward: Maybe that too. Pregnancy cravings are a hell of a thing.
Speaker:Evan: Like a ice cream.
Speaker:Bill: I mean, it really is like the tagline for the movie is like on the like, you know.
Speaker:Evan: What is it actually?
Speaker:Bill: It is.
Speaker:Evan: The poster on Wikipedia just says beware.
Speaker:Bill: Now it's our turn to adapt. And it really is like.
Speaker:Bill: The idea of like humans refuse to acknowledge that like,
Speaker:Bill: not humans, but like Western, you know, like mentality refuses to acknowledge
Speaker:Bill: that like shit changes and you need to change with it sometimes and like move and, you know,
Speaker:Bill: adapt to things and accept change.
Speaker:Bill: and but like you're part of the system you
Speaker:Bill: do not live separate from the greater
Speaker:Bill: world which is like ward is like saying it's like why are they act like
Speaker:Bill: this because mating season it's like but we have like throughout history
Speaker:Bill: it's always just like well this animal
Speaker:Bill: was aggressive and i don't know why and it's like well you
Speaker:Bill: like you know we're in its space like leave it
Speaker:Bill: this this bison attacked me for no
Speaker:Bill: reason it's like it was in the
Speaker:Bill: field and you walked up to it leave it the fuck alone like
Speaker:Bill: like just refuse to take like
Speaker:Bill: take like accountability for the fact that you exist in a world surrounded by
Speaker:Bill: other things and that other things have their own like you know objectives and
Speaker:Bill: internal lives and you know also they weren't like giant.
Speaker:Evan: Monsters when they first arrived it was just like some kind of virus like the
Speaker:Evan: they clearly didn't make any real attempt to do something about it.
Speaker:ward: No, it was immediately, oh, treat it as a threat so we can dump money into military
Speaker:ward: spending and justify building a giant border wall finally.
Speaker:Evan: That wall, how tall do you think it was? Huge, right?
Speaker:ward: Fucking massive.
Speaker:Evan: And they built it in less than six years.
Speaker:Bill: Absolutely.
Speaker:Evan: They said it's like the biggest wall. Infinite spending.
Speaker:ward: Infinite spending as long as you have an enemy.
Speaker:Evan: They built the Great Wall of China across the border basically.
Speaker:Bill: It makes the wall project in Pacific Rim look like Child's Play.
Speaker:Bill: Like this thing is Absolutely. really epic.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah. And the other line, as they're coming up, like they're,
Speaker:Evan: they get to that ruin in like that ruin, like the, it's not really a pyramid.
Speaker:Evan: What are they? This has a different name. I can't think of what it's called.
Speaker:Evan: Is it a pyramid that they kind of climb on?
Speaker:Bill: It's a stepped pyramid.
Speaker:Evan: A stepped pyramid. They're at the top of it. I think they're walking in and
Speaker:Evan: she says, or one of them, I think she says, it's different looking at America from the outside in.
Speaker:Evan: And it's like a brief moment of self-reflection in some way of what other people view America as.
Speaker:Evan: Like, oh, the place of safety will finally be safe and we won't get bombed.
Speaker:Evan: And that must be what so many people are trying to come to.
Speaker:Evan: Not because America is so great. It's because we're there. where they were we're
Speaker:Evan: making worse so i don't know i thought it was a good line.
Speaker:Bill: I believe that was actually i think he said that no he says it okay so.
Speaker:Evan: Maybe he's kind of finally coming around to like being kind of a.
Speaker:ward: Yeah that's that's the scene i'm talking yeah that's the scene i'm talking about
Speaker:ward: where like he brings that up and then like she's the one that like deflects
Speaker:ward: like he deflected earlier in the movie but instead of him holding her to it
Speaker:ward: and being like no answer the question you know what i'm talking about he just
Speaker:ward: goes oh yeah well we can think of something we can talk about something fun
Speaker:ward: then something light-hearted.
Speaker:Bill: Yeah did you have a sequel.
Speaker:Evan: To this by.
Speaker:Bill: The way yes yes i didn't even know i.
Speaker:ward: Just found out about this movie there's a sequel bad oh.
Speaker:Bill: It's not as if yeah no it's not oh first
Speaker:Bill: of all but all right here's the thing okay we can actually
Speaker:Bill: talk about this because i do think it's an interesting thing to talk about the
Speaker:Bill: sequel because the sequel is not done by gareth edwards okay um it um takes
Speaker:Bill: place in the middle middle east it is called monsters dark continent jesus.
Speaker:ward: Oh i don't like that already.
Speaker:Bill: Okay so that's like the very
Speaker:Bill: fact that like i i like i'm saying it's worth
Speaker:Bill: talking about because again to return to like i
Speaker:Bill: don't think gareth edwards is stumbling into anti-imperialism four times out
Speaker:Bill: of five and then like you literally you watch monsters and then the sequel to
Speaker:Bill: this movie made by other people's other people's called monsters dark continent
Speaker:Bill: and the main characters are,
Speaker:Bill: US soldiers like that's who it follows what.
Speaker:ward: Was the budget for the second one doesn't say it only made 50.
Speaker:Bill: Grand in the box office I don't think it made it back I'll tell you that.
Speaker:ward: Probably got some DOD funding though.
Speaker:Bill: Probably.
Speaker:Evan: I think it's British military in the movie. No, maybe it is US military.
Speaker:Bill: No, it is not. It is American military.
Speaker:ward: Ah, DOD money.
Speaker:Bill: Four close-knit friends from Detroit. US Army soldiers.
Speaker:Evan: Detroit, of course.
Speaker:Bill: Deployed to the Middle East for their first tour. They're a job involved dealing
Speaker:Bill: with the creatures dubbed monsters and a new insurgency.
Speaker:Evan: That's just, and I saw in the description on Wikipedia, apparently,
Speaker:Evan: like, there's a scene where they're doing, like, dog fighting,
Speaker:Evan: but with, like, infant creatures. That is some fucked up shit.
Speaker:Evan: That's the kind of shit that the military and they would do,
Speaker:Evan: you know, using them for sport.
Speaker:Bill: IED's feature, of course. Like, it is...
Speaker:Bill: This could not be any more antithetical to the original story told in the first movie.
Speaker:Evan: This happens a lot, though. Like, a good movie with, like, good principles,
Speaker:Evan: like Starship Troopers, and then they make, you know, direct-to-DVD sequels that just suck ass.
Speaker:Evan: Anyway. But going back to like the wall and that whole thing,
Speaker:Evan: what was I going to say about it? Okay.
Speaker:Evan: So they get to the wall and they sort of like walk up to it.
Speaker:Evan: And there's just sort of like this open area where there's no one there.
Speaker:Evan: And presumably, so it's almost like they're not even guarding.
Speaker:Bill: It's like security theater. Yeah.
Speaker:Evan: Right. Like they have all these booze and stuff. Well, go ahead, Ward.
Speaker:ward: Gareth Edwards directed the sequel. So I'm doubling down.
Speaker:Evan: No, he produced it.
Speaker:Bill: He didn't. It was directed by Tom Green.
Speaker:ward: Oh, whatever. hold on it's sequel he was executive my bad i reread the thing
Speaker:ward: yeah whatever he was involved so i'm doubling down he stumbled into it come
Speaker:ward: on the podcast gareth and just fend yourself well.
Speaker:Evan: Oh wait what's oh but like the border is like it's secure and i'm using air quotes.
Speaker:ward: Oh so secure monsters could just walk.
Speaker:Evan: Right through well they do right.
Speaker:Bill: Well i mean that's the point the like
Speaker:Bill: they're big but at the same time
Speaker:Bill: they're basically octopuses so like
Speaker:Bill: they could probably squeeze through a human-sized doorway so
Speaker:Bill: you know like i mean it's spoiler alert the monsters are basically just octopuses
Speaker:Bill: guys okay like it's kind of lame but at the same time octopuses are really fucking
Speaker:Bill: weird and cool so you know we'll give it a pass it works it works also.
Speaker:Evan: The fact that they're in the water tells me that they could also just like get to other.
Speaker:Bill: Places yeah like they're not easily they're not being contained at all this
Speaker:Bill: is a boondoggle in the truce like they're no they're it's security theater that's all it is well.
Speaker:Evan: And obama wait what year was this it took place in 2010.
Speaker:Bill: So obama thanks obama.
Speaker:Evan: Obama built a border wall, guys.
Speaker:ward: Yeah, no, I like that this border is completely unmanned.
Speaker:ward: It goes along with the whole thing that it's literally they're just trying to
Speaker:ward: justify more military spending and more military action on this whole thing.
Speaker:ward: Oh, they pushed through the border wall. Did they really?
Speaker:ward: Was it unattended and they walled it? They wandered.
Speaker:Evan: And then they get through and the town that's there is completely destroyed by U.S.
Speaker:Evan: airstrikes. So, that tells me they're bombing American towns.
Speaker:ward: Yeah.
Speaker:Evan: With no regard.
Speaker:Bill: Just like in real life. That has happened.
Speaker:Evan: Oh, they would.
Speaker:Bill: By the way, people, that has happened in real life. The American military has
Speaker:Bill: bombed American towns in real life.
Speaker:Bill: Also, the American military has used chemical warfare on American towns in real life.
Speaker:ward: Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Evan: They've also bombed a major city, like the police department in Philadelphia. You can check out that.
Speaker:Bill: Speaking of chemical warfare, have you heard about St. Louis?
Speaker:Evan: Yes.
Speaker:Bill: That was a question.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah, so, and so, yeah, well, go ahead.
Speaker:Bill: I said that was a question to the audience, Evan, not you.
Speaker:Evan: Oh, yeah, yeah, okay. I tell you this all the time. My audience is very well-read
Speaker:Evan: in culture. They, of course, know.
Speaker:ward: Yeah, they know all this stuff. That's why they're listening.
Speaker:Bill: Listen, sometimes stuff, it slips with, listen, we all, we can't all,
Speaker:Bill: we can't all keep track of everything the CIA does all the time, okay?
Speaker:ward: Like, it's a lot.
Speaker:Bill: We've got a lot of shit going on. It's a lot.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah. have you ever seen the wikipedia page for like u.s incursions in other
Speaker:Evan: countries it's like 6500 pages long yeah.
Speaker:ward: Oh yeah i love the u.s involvement in regime change wikipedia page with a top
Speaker:ward: article it's like this article is too long to read in a proper format like.
Speaker:Evan: We will send you a copy of a book with all the with all the citations so you
Speaker:Evan: can like look at it yourself.
Speaker:ward: Yeah they literally just like you might not want to read it here this is fucking
Speaker:ward: long and it's disorganized it's a lot.
Speaker:Evan: What year was that? Was that like in like mid fifties?
Speaker:ward: Hmm.
Speaker:Bill: 1950s.
Speaker:Evan: St. Louis?
Speaker:ward: Yeah.
Speaker:Bill: Yeah. 1950s and sixties. It's operation.
Speaker:Evan: Into the sixties too.
Speaker:Bill: Operation lack LAC large area.
Speaker:Evan: Oh, I didn't realize, I didn't realize it went on for that long.
Speaker:Bill: Yeah.
Speaker:Evan: It's funny. There is a, um, I'm rewatching X files right now.
Speaker:Evan: And there's an episode where people are like going crazy and killing people
Speaker:Evan: because they like see numbers on a screen and it causes them to tell them to
Speaker:Evan: do things like that plays on their fear.
Speaker:Evan: And it's partly because they're spraying in this town, like a really horrible
Speaker:Evan: chemical on their crops to save it from like the town essentially going bankrupt.
Speaker:Bill: Uh, that episode I believe is also very much based on MKUltra.
Speaker:Evan: Yes. Yes. But using the spraying in town reminded me of that.
Speaker:Evan: And I mean, so that the film ends sort of on a very, uh, like a nice note is
Speaker:Evan: they like kiss at the very end. And they're about to get rescued by the Marines
Speaker:Evan: or the Army or whatever, finally taking them away.
Speaker:Evan: And she's probably thinking in that moment, this is the last time I'm going to have something good.
Speaker:Evan: She clearly does not want to go home, as we've said numerous times,
Speaker:Evan: unless they decide that they're not going to go home.
Speaker:Bill: Except for the fact that the movie may end there, but chronologically,
Speaker:Bill: the beginning of the movie actually takes place after the end of the movie.
Speaker:Bill: And if you recall from the beginning of the movie, he has her lifeless body
Speaker:Bill: in his arms because their transport has been attacked after bombing the aliens
Speaker:Bill: and he is walking away with her body in his arms.
Speaker:Evan: Is that during the opening?
Speaker:Bill: It's the opening scene. The opening scene of the movie.
Speaker:Evan: You're right.
Speaker:Bill: Is the night vision after their transport has been attacked by the creatures
Speaker:Bill: after they bombed the creatures.
Speaker:Bill: so the end of the movie takes place it basically ends right before where the
Speaker:Bill: start of the movie begins yeah begins and the start of the movie Jesus.
Speaker:Evan: Christ I didn't I didn't I like I missed.
Speaker:ward: That oh yeah no when the Humvees are rolling up and the dude's like singing mmhmm that's yeah.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah.
Speaker:ward: Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Evan: Wow.
Speaker:ward: And that's what clued me in. And I was like, oh man, well now I'm going to start it back over.
Speaker:Evan: Jesus. I completely botched that.
Speaker:Bill: Yep.
Speaker:Evan: In some way I was thinking that she would, yeah, I was thinking that that would
Speaker:Evan: happen sometime during the movie.
Speaker:Evan: I didn't put it as that's, yeah.
Speaker:Evan: So literally the military kills them after all this and he gets nothing.
Speaker:Evan: Well, no, he could take a picture of her dead body.
Speaker:ward: Yeah, there's that.
Speaker:Bill: He could take a picture of her dead body and sell it to her father like capitalism
Speaker:Bill: is straight up that is like that is like you could not have it is not subtle,
Speaker:Bill: yeah that's again that's i don't think he did this by accident he did It's not a subtle message.
Speaker:ward: Show up, Gareth.
Speaker:Bill: It's not a subtle message.
Speaker:Evan: Gareth is too big now.
Speaker:Bill: She asks him, you profit off of tragedy.
Speaker:Bill: He explains her father's the one doing it.
Speaker:Bill: And then at the end of their story, beginning of the movie, he's got her dead
Speaker:Bill: body, lifeless body. We don't, you know.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah, no, but it makes a lot more sense the way you're thinking.
Speaker:Evan: I was just thinking that he was just carrying her.
Speaker:Evan: I didn't put the idea of her being dead there. but that makes sense yeah he
Speaker:Evan: takes a picture of her dead body he experiences you know this tragedy finally
Speaker:Evan: and of course it's because of the united states not because of the monster and.
Speaker:Bill: The person that has like the person who has begun to awaken the idea in him
Speaker:Bill: that this is fucked up is the person that dies the person the one person in
Speaker:Bill: the entire movie who's like the most like openly like this does not work is
Speaker:Bill: the person who was killed by that system.
Speaker:Evan: That's i mean that's reality that's other movies like you know like this to
Speaker:Evan: the the person who well we think of rogue one gareth edwards that'll be the
Speaker:Evan: third in this gareth edwards miniseries for those counting at home.
Speaker:ward: Mr. Edwards, defend yourself. Keep accidentally stumbling into anti-imperialist plot lines.
Speaker:Evan: Well, and the other thing, too, is he wrote this film. He wrote the script.
Speaker:Evan: He also wrote the script to the creator. The other three films he's directed,
Speaker:Evan: he did not write the script.
Speaker:Evan: So, if anything, this and the creator are the most radical in their- It's happy accidents.
Speaker:Bill: It's a happy- He wrote a, like, how-
Speaker:Bill: he wrote a 500-page script that that blatantly shows the united states military
Speaker:Bill: as the villain he just was so fucking.
Speaker:Evan: What's funny when i was happy i watched a bunch of um
Speaker:Evan: a bunch of uh interviews about this film
Speaker:Evan: there aren't a lot most of them are around the idea of like no and most of them
Speaker:Evan: have to do with the uh the effects which he did again did like adobe basically
Speaker:Evan: made like a commercial movie like interview basically like how awesome you can
Speaker:Evan: do on our on our tools but he doesn't get into any of the politics really of
Speaker:Evan: any of his works. He doesn't talk about it at all.
Speaker:ward: Yeah, because he stumbled into it.
Speaker:Bill: There is like not, you can't get stuff about him really.
Speaker:Evan: No.
Speaker:Bill: I have like, again, I've watched this movie multiple times.
Speaker:Bill: I've tried, and as a person who like loves like, you know, like lore and like
Speaker:Bill: behind the scenes stuff, like I've sought out and like looked for information,
Speaker:Bill: background information in this movie, and there's just It doesn't exist.
Speaker:Evan: He also did an episode for a documentary series about super tornadoes and solar
Speaker:Evan: storms that have been... I haven't seen the episode.
Speaker:Evan: I just saw this. I wonder if it has to do with climate change.
Speaker:Evan: So he clearly has the idea that shit right now isn't good.
Speaker:Evan: I mean, Rogue One kind of fell into his lap. He got the script and he said,
Speaker:Evan: like, you're the director for this.
Speaker:Evan: But he had control over it. He had creative control. He wrote a different ending
Speaker:Evan: for Rogue One, which we'll talk about in the Rogue One episode.
Speaker:Evan: I don't know why there's so little about him.
Speaker:Bill: It's really not a lot.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah. Like you literally, his Wikipedia page is, is like six paragraphs.
Speaker:Bill: Yep.
Speaker:Evan: And he seemed to like the thing that he, he was more into visual effects more
Speaker:Evan: so than the directing initially.
Speaker:Evan: That's like what he was interested in.
Speaker:Bill: For Nova. He did a bunch of like documentary stuff, which meant,
Speaker:Bill: you know, you could see actually kind of like, bleeds over into Monsters.
Speaker:Bill: I mean, style, because it is presented, which, going back to what you said originally about, like,
Speaker:Bill: Blair Witch, you know, it's like, I really do think that, like,
Speaker:Bill: this is, like, a perfect balance between the, like, quote-unquote found footage and,
Speaker:Bill: actual, like, just, like, a filmed movie, because you get a good balance between
Speaker:Bill: those things, because found footage, and it's just found footage, that can get old.
Speaker:Evan: I'm not a big fan of full found footage films. They get a little bit weird.
Speaker:ward: It's exhausting real quick.
Speaker:Bill: Yeah.
Speaker:Evan: Sometimes they make me like,
Speaker:Evan: like they almost make me i mean i know that's part of the reason it's like they
Speaker:Evan: make me feel like sick like you know just all the things whipping around and
Speaker:Evan: the camera being really shaky.
Speaker:Bill: Yeah i just find that like found footage films in general i don't have any real
Speaker:Bill: character building like there's just it's so focused on that like yeah it's
Speaker:Bill: so focused on that like style that like the characters take a back seat and
Speaker:Bill: you just you don't get anything out of it whereas like this Can I.
Speaker:Evan: Just say this too? He made Monsters for $500,000 and his next movie is Godzilla
Speaker:Evan: with a $160 million budget.
Speaker:Evan: It has to be the greatest increase in a movie budget from the first movie to
Speaker:Evan: the second movie, like in director history,
Speaker:Evan: like being an unknown person to making this movie that made $5 billion almost,
Speaker:Evan: which is pretty good for a 500k film, then makes Godzilla on like one of the
Speaker:Evan: greatest well-known movie franchises, like in the history of movies.
Speaker:Evan: like, there has to be something else about this guy that like, isn't here.
Speaker:Evan: We don't know. I don't, I don't know. He had interviews with like several studios
Speaker:Evan: and legendary pictures.
Speaker:Evan: And then that's when they Warner brothers and legendary is the one who made
Speaker:Evan: Godzilla and they brought him in.
Speaker:Evan: And so it just, that's just crazy. Like an unknown director.
Speaker:Bill: Now I will say, like, listen, I just want to like, I want to get out of this. Okay.
Speaker:Bill: I understand that we're talking a lot about the anti-imperialist aspects of
Speaker:Bill: the things that, you know, the storylines that he has written into movies or
Speaker:Bill: that has been part of movies that he has been involved in and stumbled,
Speaker:Bill: I'm not dignifying that.
Speaker:Bill: Um, and I, you know, I will acknowledge that anti-imperialism is not the primary thing.
Speaker:Bill: point, political point you could take away from Godzilla 2014.
Speaker:Bill: But I do think the other thing that is prevalent in this and Monsters as well
Speaker:Bill: is a driving factor in Godzilla 2014 is ecological consciousness and environmentalism
Speaker:Bill: and nature and systemic systems.
Speaker:Bill: I just want to get it at, it's not all anti-imperialism. He also has a thing
Speaker:Bill: where he returns to that kind of like thing as well.
Speaker:Bill: Ecology and environmentalism and stuff like that.
Speaker:Bill: Because that's a huge aspect of Godzilla. The legendary monster universe is
Speaker:Bill: really focused on that kind of vitality.
Speaker:Bill: Nature and systemic systems and stuff like that.
Speaker:Evan: I don't know a lot. I haven't done much digging into his Godzilla film from
Speaker:Evan: 2014, but I mean, he didn't write the screenplay.
Speaker:Evan: It seems like it was developed for a while, so I'm going to have to look into
Speaker:Evan: that for our next Excellent.
Speaker:Evan: I mean, I don't have much else on this film. And we didn't really talk too much
Speaker:Evan: about the news reports and things you would get along the way.
Speaker:Evan: There'd be like a little radio clip, like a TV would be on and you'd see some things.
Speaker:Bill: Well, that's like the aspect of the found footage. It's like the perfect blend
Speaker:Bill: between found footage and...
Speaker:Bill: just traditional filmmaking because the found footage is the footage that's
Speaker:Bill: in the background which brings the world to life in the background of these
Speaker:Bill: two people's like struggles.
Speaker:Evan: Right yeah it.
Speaker:Bill: Provides depth and context makes.
Speaker:ward: The world feel real.
Speaker:Bill: Yeah.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah i mean it's it's and the thing i think i mentioned the beginning is they
Speaker:Evan: shot in seven different countries in latin america they had permission to really
Speaker:Evan: shoot at none of them for the most part you don't make a 500 000 film and all these places,
Speaker:Evan: all the other people who he interacts with for the most part were not actors.
Speaker:Evan: They just like convince people to be in their movie in many cases.
Speaker:Evan: Hey, you want to be the guy who sells tickets to us in the scene?
Speaker:Evan: And not also, I forgot to also mention, this was mostly improv.
Speaker:Bill: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:Evan: There was an outline for that. Yeah, like the script was, it was all ad-lib,
Speaker:Evan: like here's what's going to happen in the scene, you just kind of talk about it.
Speaker:Evan: It probably helped that they clearly knew each other and were married or were
Speaker:Evan: almost, you know, I guess they weren't married at the time of the filming,
Speaker:Evan: but they were to get together.
Speaker:Bill: They were getting to know each other.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah. I mean, I don't know. They are. They already were married when the,
Speaker:Evan: and maybe they just met on the set and then when did it actually?
Speaker:Bill: Yeah. I have a feeling that's the case.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah. They filmed it in. I was trying to see exactly when they filmed it.
Speaker:ward: $500,000. That's including travel to seven countries that you didn't ask permission to film in.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah. 15 grand of that was the equipment. it and
Speaker:Evan: then he did all the editing on it like in a year on his laptop so
Speaker:Evan: seven people on principal photography is ridiculously small for a movie even
Speaker:Evan: for a even for a like a low budget film but five hundred thousand dollars usually
Speaker:Evan: you get i mean i'm not a film expert but i would feel like that's pretty small
Speaker:Evan: apparently the original cut it says was four over four hours long and they trimmed it down so it's.
Speaker:ward: Four hours dang.
Speaker:Bill: I mean any improv yeah any improvised yeah i could see that yeah.
Speaker:Evan: I mean they probably just had them talking for a while in some scene and they
Speaker:Evan: just like cut to the part that was the most interesting all.
Speaker:ward: Right so how.
Speaker:Evan: Do i get back to it.
Speaker:Bill: Yeah i'd watch i would watch.
Speaker:Evan: It's actually there is a blu-ray of this which is kind of hard to believe actually
Speaker:Evan: like you have movies now that come out that are like good movies that don't
Speaker:Evan: get like a blu-ray release and this one did yeah.
Speaker:Bill: But this was 2010 everything that was a different time everything got a fucking release yeah.
Speaker:Evan: I wonder nowadays.
Speaker:Bill: Things don't get get released on Blu-ray because not everything does.
Speaker:Bill: In 2010, that was how you got movies.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah, I mean, I think it's like making a comeback, but you're right.
Speaker:Evan: I want to see if it says on here, here are the special features.
Speaker:Bill: Yeah.
Speaker:Evan: So special features is there's commentary with Gareth Edwards and the two actors,
Speaker:Evan: deleted extended scenes, look at how they made the monsters behind the scene
Speaker:Evan: with the monsters, something called the edit.
Speaker:Evan: It's probably like an interview, some visual effects, an interview with Gareth
Speaker:Evan: Edwards, interview with the two actors again, and the New York Comic Con discussion
Speaker:Evan: with Gareth Edwards. None of that is online.
Speaker:Bill: It's kind of.
Speaker:Evan: I think I can afford the $4 used copy of this that exists.
Speaker:Bill: Yeah. Can we talk about who the hell chooses Scoot as their name?
Speaker:Evan: Scoot?
Speaker:Bill: Yeah, Scoot.
Speaker:Evan: Oh, the actor's name, right. Sorry, I was like, there's no one.
Speaker:Bill: Scoot. Who chooses that as their professional name? Scoot.
Speaker:Evan: He's from Texas. I don't know.
Speaker:ward: Who's Scoot and Boogie?
Speaker:Evan: Scooter. Shooter.
Speaker:Evan: Well, folks, you've been listening to Left of the Projector,
Speaker:Evan: part one of five of gareth edwards and uh if he makes a new film we'll be sure
Speaker:Evan: to have him on the podcast to tell everyone about it because without us how
Speaker:Evan: will he how will he promote his new film without this podcast.
Speaker:ward: It'll probably flop.
Speaker:Evan: No one will be able to see like.
Speaker:ward: It won't get the reach if he doesn't show up.
Speaker:Evan: I mean he only was able to make a and.
Speaker:ward: We're offering this yeah we're not even offering it for free we're not even
Speaker:ward: offering it for free we're willing to give him a mug.
Speaker:Evan: He's Getting.
Speaker:ward: Paid to show up and not even show up is just like an online video.
Speaker:Evan: I mean, he got a $225 million budget for, for Jurassic Park.
Speaker:Evan: And I bet they didn't give him a mug.
Speaker:ward: They're hard. They're a hard commodity, especially in this economy these days, dude.
Speaker:Evan: And we'll catch you next time.
