Episode 245
Being John Malcovich with Cut Off the Spigot
This week we are joined by friend of the show Alexa, from Cut Off The Spigot, to discuss 1999's "Being John Malkovich" directed by Spike Jonze and starring John Cusack, Cameron Diaz, Catherine Keener, Orson Bean, and of course, John Malkovich. We discuss one of our favorite topics, alienation, how chimpanzees should not be kept as pets, and the way in which this system makes people incapable of knowing themselves or being comfortable in their own bodies.
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Host Links
Transcript
Track 2: Hello, and welcome to Left of the Projector. I'm your host, Bill,
Speaker:Track 2: back again with another film discussion from the West.
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Speaker:Track 2: you can go to Patreon forward slash Left of the Projector pod.
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Speaker:Track 2: Show everyone you got the best taste around. Wherever you're listening,
Speaker:Track 2: give us a rating and subscribe so you'll get notified of our weekly episodes
Speaker:Track 2: that drop every Tuesday. Now, onto the show.
Speaker:Track 2: This week on Left of the Projector, we will be taking a ride up to the seventh
Speaker:Track 2: floor, or more appropriately, the seventh and a half floor,
Speaker:Track 2: and entering the mind of someone, maybe it's Gareth Edwards,
Speaker:Track 2: maybe it's Wallace Shawn, actually, no, unfortunately, for legal reasons,
Speaker:Track 2: we can't share any more about that.
Speaker:Track 2: But instead, we will be taking a trip back to the year 1999,
Speaker:Track 2: and for some reason, people are able to drive from Midtown Manhattan to the
Speaker:Track 2: New Jersey Turnpike in under 15 minutes.
Speaker:Track 2: The film we will be discussing is Spike Jonze, being John Malkovich,
Speaker:Track 2: the film stars John Cusack, Cameron Diaz, Catherine Keener, Mary Kay Place,
Speaker:Track 2: and of course, some guy named John Malkovich.
Speaker:Track 2: Our guest tonight is friend of the show, Alexa Speed, who you may know better
Speaker:Track 2: as Cut Off the Spigot on all platforms.
Speaker:Track 2: And as always, I have my co-hosts, Evan and Ward. Welcome back to the show, Alexa.
Speaker:Track 4: Yeah, thanks so much for having me back.
Speaker:Track 3: That's great to have you.
Speaker:Track 1: Of course. So we recently had done The Prestige, but when you were sort of like
Speaker:Track 1: picking movies, this one was also one of the ones.
Speaker:Track 1: So I'm wondering why you wanted to talk about it.
Speaker:Track 4: Well, similar to The Prestige, I had seen it when it came out and I remembered really liking it.
Speaker:Track 4: And so I was like, well, this is a great excuse to watch it again.
Speaker:Track 4: And I do have to say, I really loved it when it came out, but I didn't remember
Speaker:Track 4: much of that actual plot or themes.
Speaker:Track 4: And watching it a second time, I definitely hated some of the characters a lot more.
Speaker:Track 2: Oh, almost none of the characters in the movie are likable, other than Elijah.
Speaker:Track 2: Elijah's the most likable character.
Speaker:Track 4: And he shouldn't even be there because, like...
Speaker:Track 2: He's a chimp. Yeah, I was like...
Speaker:Track 4: Like, I knew this didn't happen in the movie, but I was like,
Speaker:Track 4: he's going to rip her face off.
Speaker:Track 4: Like, this is not...
Speaker:Track 2: I felt so bad for Elijah.
Speaker:Track 4: Me too.
Speaker:Track 1: Similar to you, Alexa, I hadn't seen this movie, I don't think,
Speaker:Track 1: since it came out or, like, near the time.
Speaker:Track 1: I had no memory of anything past about the 30th minute in this movie.
Speaker:Track 1: I didn't know the middle. I didn't remember the ending.
Speaker:Track 1: It just was nothing. None of that registered in my mind. So I felt almost like
Speaker:Track 1: I was watching it for the first time.
Speaker:Track 4: Yeah, that's kind of how I felt as well. Like I knew some of it,
Speaker:Track 4: but then actually going, like watching the movie, I was like,
Speaker:Track 4: oh, I don't remember any of this.
Speaker:Track 2: Word, had you seen this before?
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah, near the time it came out, and I got the exact same reaction where I was
Speaker:Track 3: like, I remember this being different.
Speaker:Track 3: I thought they were just having fun being John Malkovich.
Speaker:Track 4: Yeah, that's what I was thinking too.
Speaker:Track 3: And I watched it, I'm like, oh, these people are all terrible.
Speaker:Track 3: Oh, this gets so much worse. I don't remember any of this at all.
Speaker:Track 2: It's so much deeper than just vacation in John Malkovich's body.
Speaker:Track 2: There is lore to this movie.
Speaker:Track 2: Like, there's a deep lore to this movie that is fucked up and weird.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah.
Speaker:Track 4: Yeah.
Speaker:Track 3: And all I could remember was that it was just fun vacation Malkovich time. Like, what the fuck?
Speaker:Track 4: That's pretty much exactly how I felt. I was like, this was fun,
Speaker:Track 4: wasn't it? And then it was like, oh, no.
Speaker:Track 2: No.
Speaker:Track 1: No, it's not. I would urge anyone who's listening and they maybe haven't seen
Speaker:Track 1: in a while, definitely watch it before.
Speaker:Track 1: because you may have the same exact reaction to all of us is,
Speaker:Track 1: oh, that's what happened in that movie.
Speaker:Track 2: It's not just that. It's also like the deep weirdness of it.
Speaker:Track 2: Like this is a weird alternate universe that has weird rules,
Speaker:Track 2: including the fact that puppeteers can be famous.
Speaker:Track 4: Yeah.
Speaker:Track 2: That in and of itself is fucking like, what was it? What was the, rival puppeteer.
Speaker:Track 4: Mannequin yeah he had the giant puppet and then yeah.
Speaker:Track 2: The the the giant who was it sylvia plath i don't remember i think i'm gonna
Speaker:Track 2: actually i think oh was it jane austen the giant jane austen puppet i think
Speaker:Track 2: it was jane austen and it's like nobody would what is this it's so bizarre the
Speaker:Track 2: concept of puppeteering being.
Speaker:Track 4: I honestly felt like someone being
Speaker:Track 4: famous for puppeteering is some like
Speaker:Track 4: i could see like if someone truly was
Speaker:Track 4: talented and took puppeteering in a unique way that
Speaker:Track 4: it could blow up and be like this new like revitalized
Speaker:Track 4: popular art form outside of muppets i'm not including i could see like puppeteering
Speaker:Track 4: being a thing if there was a really cool show but the the rest of the universe
Speaker:Track 4: is definitely like in an alternate world and i think you really start to feel that when you're,
Speaker:Track 4: Like he goes in for the interview and the older man who is like the owner of
Speaker:Track 4: the company is just really sexual and stuff like all of a sudden.
Speaker:Track 4: And that was just like, why is he doing like my reaction was just like, why is he doing this?
Speaker:Track 4: Like, I know there's going to be a portal at some point, but this just feels weird.
Speaker:Track 1: And we have to point out that that actor's name is Orson Bean.
Speaker:Track 4: He's Mr. Bean.
Speaker:Track 1: Which is a great name.
Speaker:Track 2: Which is weirder than his name in the movie. I just want to point that out.
Speaker:Track 1: And we mentioned all the characters in it, but sort of as a very brief sketch.
Speaker:Track 1: So John Cusack and Cameron Diaz's character are married, and that's Craig and Lottie.
Speaker:Track 1: And he's a puppeteer. And they also have a really big apartment in New York
Speaker:Track 1: on presumably one salary?
Speaker:Track 2: Is it a big apartment?
Speaker:Track 1: I mean, he has a whole puppeteering room, plus a whole bedroom.
Speaker:Track 2: That looked like a really shitty closet. And they were like in a basement.
Speaker:Track 2: That was like a basement apartment.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah, I guess that's right. But, well, so they're living there.
Speaker:Track 1: He goes, as you said, Alex, he goes to an interview at this very strange company
Speaker:Track 1: that has a half of a floor and...
Speaker:Track 1: Even crazier is then they have a video that explains why they have this middle floor.
Speaker:Track 1: And that's the point where I didn't remember any of the movie bits.
Speaker:Track 1: Like, what is going on here?
Speaker:Track 4: That part i did think was really funny because i could imagine being in corporate
Speaker:Track 4: america and working like in a half the height floor.
Speaker:Track 2: And having the.
Speaker:Track 4: Orientation video to explain where it came from because that part like although
Speaker:Track 4: it is weird it it definitely made sense to me,
Speaker:Track 4: like this is why we have the seventh and a half floor and.
Speaker:Track 1: They file the company is a filing company i don't really understand what that.
Speaker:Track 2: Means exactly this movie feels like it's out of like time and space like.
Speaker:Track 3: It doesn't have to make sense there's a portal into a man.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah yeah the fact that it's a company that
Speaker:Track 2: files is the least weird thing like let's
Speaker:Track 2: let's be real but you
Speaker:Track 2: hear them you hear like the people in
Speaker:Track 2: the business at some point like taking calls from customers that are
Speaker:Track 2: like oh what's that what's that you know like oh
Speaker:Track 2: what's the name like uh what's the file like name or whatever like they're they're
Speaker:Track 2: like going and looking it up it's almost like they're like the analog version
Speaker:Track 2: of like a data server like that's what that's really what it seems like that's
Speaker:Track 2: their business they're the analog version of a server bank yeah.
Speaker:Track 4: That's the way i kind of i mean there probably was some sort of filing companies
Speaker:Track 4: or something back in the day right.
Speaker:Track 2: That's a good question.
Speaker:Track 1: I'm sure there was. And the thing that also throws you, and I read this on Wikipedia,
Speaker:Track 1: is that both John Cusack, he has a long ponytail and very disheveled.
Speaker:Track 1: And Cameron Diaz is like, they just make her look completely unrecognizable for the most part.
Speaker:Track 1: And they said it was a challenge to make her look that way and sort of almost
Speaker:Track 1: not use makeup and other things.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah. Have you seen Cameron Diaz?
Speaker:Track 4: That was the thing. I think she also may be wearing brown contacts or something.
Speaker:Track 4: I think her eye color is different.
Speaker:Track 1: To make her seem sort of darker.
Speaker:Track 4: Yeah. But that was one thing is that especially around when this movie came
Speaker:Track 4: out, Cameron Diaz was this really big kind of sex symbol.
Speaker:Track 4: and um so i guess
Speaker:Track 4: they did have to do a lot of work to make her
Speaker:Track 4: look less appealing but i also thought it
Speaker:Track 4: it was kind of interesting for her to like i
Speaker:Track 4: i feel like that showed how she was great as an actress because like i don't
Speaker:Track 4: know at least like in the beginning part it's pretty believable that she's frumpy
Speaker:Track 4: and like unattractive like you could see that maybe with a makeover she'd look
Speaker:Track 4: amazing but like i didn't i i found it to be believable.
Speaker:Track 1: The year before this movie came out, she was in There's Something About Mary,
Speaker:Track 1: which is literally like the it girl, you know, and like the transformation is pretty stark.
Speaker:Track 2: She's definitely wearing brown contacts.
Speaker:Track 4: I called it.
Speaker:Track 1: Oh, yeah. Does she have green or blue eyes or something?
Speaker:Track 2: She's got blue eyes.
Speaker:Track 1: Okay, so that's, then you're correct, Alexa.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah, and the, there's so many different weird things, like metaphors in this movie.
Speaker:Track 1: and i think just because we
Speaker:Track 1: learned that craig is a puppeteer
Speaker:Track 1: and that like it comes into play later in
Speaker:Track 1: the movie i was thinking about just the idea of
Speaker:Track 1: like puppeteering and wanting to control you know
Speaker:Track 1: characters or other people and he
Speaker:Track 1: uses his ability later to control john
Speaker:Track 1: malkovich so it feels
Speaker:Track 1: like that's some sort of overall he has a fantasy of being a famous puppeteer
Speaker:Track 1: too so there's there's all this fantasy aspect and trying to escape their miserable
Speaker:Track 1: lives you know there's so many things and.
Speaker:Track 4: I i feel like though he was saying at one point later on in the film i think it was but like,
Speaker:Track 4: He was basically saying like, oh, well, if you're when you're puppeteering,
Speaker:Track 4: like you're viewing things through another person's eyes.
Speaker:Track 4: And like there's different scenes where he's like, you know,
Speaker:Track 4: it's like I'm I'm living in their skin and then literally gets to do it with John Malkovich.
Speaker:Track 4: And his character, like Craig, the character just felt like me to such an incel,
Speaker:Track 4: even though he was married to frumpy Cameron Diaz.
Speaker:Track 4: but like he did not want to do anything he wanted to be this famous puppeteer
Speaker:Track 4: but would just hang out in his little basement closet studio and try to make
Speaker:Track 4: his little puppet shows and or put stuff on.
Speaker:Track 1: The street that was so.
Speaker:Track 4: Completely inappropriate and just like not eye-catching except to small children he.
Speaker:Track 1: Says it he said but he says at the beginning like when he's talking to to cameron
Speaker:Track 1: diaz or to lottie he says that like the idea of a consciousness is like a terrible
Speaker:Track 1: curse and feeling feelings is like the you know it's when.
Speaker:Track 2: He's talking to elijah.
Speaker:Track 1: Oh this is a monkey or so the yes.
Speaker:Track 2: It's when he's talking to the to elijah,
Speaker:Track 2: About the curse of consciousness and feeling because he's like, he's lucky.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah.
Speaker:Track 2: He's like, he's like, he's lucky that he doesn't have that, which is also proven
Speaker:Track 2: not true, which is also like,
Speaker:Track 2: I think indicative of the fact that Craig basically doesn't like recognize other
Speaker:Track 2: people's self-possession or their,
Speaker:Track 2: their own individuality or like their, their being.
Speaker:Track 2: because well i mean he goes into don malkovich takes over his life i mean that's
Speaker:Track 2: kind of like you know the utter like you know you know violation of sanctity of self but also like,
Speaker:Track 2: we know we have it proven to us that the the chimp does have self-awareness
Speaker:Track 2: because we literally see a flashback of this chimp's childhood and his parents
Speaker:Track 2: being taken and bound up and he can't save them and it's like and then he turns
Speaker:Track 2: to the chip and he's like you don't have these things and It's like,
Speaker:Track 2: I feel like that was like really like him projecting that on everything.
Speaker:Track 2: And I also think that like.
Speaker:Track 2: The whole notion of him like yeah he
Speaker:Track 2: says oh being a puppeteer is
Speaker:Track 2: like about like living in someone else's skin but really
Speaker:Track 2: like he doesn't feel comfortable living in
Speaker:Track 2: his own skin and it's not until it's
Speaker:Track 2: not even like oh he can like live in
Speaker:Track 2: someone else's skin or or like as the puppet he only feels comfortable being
Speaker:Track 2: himself when he's projecting himself onto something else he does not feel comfortable
Speaker:Track 2: being who he is he does not have in any way shape or form any self possession of his own yeah.
Speaker:Track 4: And that's why i feel like again it almost goes back to like
Speaker:Track 4: incel culture because it's like you aren't
Speaker:Track 4: bringing anything to the table you have such a lack
Speaker:Track 4: of like confidence in yourself or
Speaker:Track 4: even just like it's it's just like he's a shell of a person and there's just
Speaker:Track 4: nothing there unless he's like projected onto someone else and it's I think
Speaker:Track 4: you really see that too where um,
Speaker:Track 4: In the one scene where it's the Maxine character and she comes over for dinner
Speaker:Track 4: and it's both Craig and Lottie basically staring at her like, oh my god.
Speaker:Track 4: And in that scene, what really struck me was that it just felt like two very
Speaker:Track 4: desperate people who clearly didn't want to be themselves, just, like,
Speaker:Track 4: staring at someone who was so fully themselves to the point where they could
Speaker:Track 4: be quite manipulative and don't think they were a great person either.
Speaker:Track 4: Yeah. But, yeah, it's, yeah, I really hated Craig.
Speaker:Track 3: I mean craig's a piece of shit even before like he learns he can steal john
Speaker:Track 3: malkovich's life like he's actively trying to cheat on his wife the only time
Speaker:Track 3: he brings up his wife is to get away from his boss so he can meet maxine at
Speaker:Track 3: the fucking bar yeah from the jump.
Speaker:Track 2: He's trying to cheat on his wife.
Speaker:Track 3: The wife that he yelled at like when she was like oh like you got to get a job
Speaker:Track 3: he's like you wanted me to get this job i just wanted to be a puppeteer he's
Speaker:Track 3: not even one of the good puppeteers in this fucking weird-ass universe that
Speaker:Track 3: celebrates puppeteers.
Speaker:Track 4: No, and his obsession with Maxine was immediate and had no bearing.
Speaker:Track 4: He was so in love with Maxine, but he, at least as far as the movie showed us,
Speaker:Track 4: it's not like he ever had a real conversation with her or anything.
Speaker:Track 4: It was just basically like an instant obsession that sprung out of,
Speaker:Track 4: I would assume, attraction and wanting to be with someone who was that confident.
Speaker:Track 1: I mean, that's where there's so many parts of this where different people have different fantasies.
Speaker:Track 1: Maxine fantasizes about being with Lottie while she's in John Malkovich.
Speaker:Track 1: Craig fantasizes about being with Lottie.
Speaker:Track 1: uh with maxine who does who rejects him
Speaker:Track 1: and then it's just like a circle or this weird
Speaker:Track 1: i mean i guess it's the kind of like a triangle but i
Speaker:Track 1: was also going to say is the maybe the funniest line in
Speaker:Track 1: the entire movie is when uh when maxine and craig go to that bar he like finally
Speaker:Track 1: shows up he comes in and she and he asked him like what she he does and he says
Speaker:Track 1: puppets here and she goes check please so good yeah that's an alzheimer that.
Speaker:Track 2: Felt like he was like i'm a close-up magician i'm a dj check please i'm good let's go.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah and like they and they i mean not to say that they make or not to katherine
Speaker:Track 1: keener isn't attractive but they make her almost it's She's so such a stark
Speaker:Track 1: contrast to Lottie and Craig.
Speaker:Track 1: It's like this unattainable thing. And that's sort of part of incel culture
Speaker:Track 1: to sort of like getting this, the, we were, we just did an episode on American
Speaker:Track 1: pie and we talked about how that movie was an incel movie.
Speaker:Track 1: And so this it's, it's ironic that we're talking. So.
Speaker:Track 4: Yeah.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah. I didn't think we'd have two incel movies.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah. Well, you brought that. I was like, Oh.
Speaker:Track 4: But it is because it's just like there's
Speaker:Track 4: no there's nothing the whole thing about incels
Speaker:Track 4: is that they're so obsessed with how women are always rejecting them but they
Speaker:Track 4: never bring anything to the table to offer and i feel like craig is the like
Speaker:Track 4: deep epitome of that because he not only brings nothing to the table all he
Speaker:Track 4: can do is like imitate others or project onto others and things like that.
Speaker:Track 4: But then Maxine, like, I found, like, her interesting as well because...
Speaker:Track 4: She just is only, like, attracted to, like, power and control and manipulation,
Speaker:Track 4: and that's, like, her fantasy.
Speaker:Track 4: So, yeah, it's sort of like everybody's fantasizing about somebody else in the movie.
Speaker:Track 2: Lottie just wants—Lottie—I found the fact that, like, Lottie,
Speaker:Track 2: when she went into John Malkovich, and her immediate response was, I think I'm trans.
Speaker:Track 2: And it was like, it really felt like to me, like her immediate response was
Speaker:Track 2: because she felt the way a man in a patriarchal society,
Speaker:Track 2: a society that, that values men over women.
Speaker:Track 2: Like that's what it was. Like, it's just, she all of a sudden had some kind
Speaker:Track 2: of sensation of like power and control over her life. And prior to that,
Speaker:Track 2: like, she was doing everything on her own.
Speaker:Track 2: She has all this, like, all these responsibilities that her husband,
Speaker:Track 2: who's a schlub, does not care about, does not engage in, doesn't help her with.
Speaker:Track 2: And then she has this, like, sensation of, like, oh, wait, I can have power and control.
Speaker:Track 2: But, like, not like a Maxine way, just like, I can be a whole person, be myself.
Speaker:Track 1: Immediately after that is that uh maxine's immediate idea is to charge money
Speaker:Track 1: to go inside of john malkovich craig doesn't doesn't want to do that but then
Speaker:Track 1: he of course goes along with it because he wants maxine and just the idea of
Speaker:Track 1: commodifying like the human consciousness,
Speaker:Track 1: i was struck by i bet if you know some tech bro could figure out a way to do
Speaker:Track 1: this they would do it and they would commodify it.
Speaker:Track 4: Yeah i oh i mean you could even make the argument that like,
Speaker:Track 4: like uh like chatbots and
Speaker:Track 4: generative ai are commodifying the human you
Speaker:Track 4: know consciousness are they fully human obviously not
Speaker:Track 4: but like they look and talk
Speaker:Track 4: and sound like a human for the most part depending on
Speaker:Track 4: what you ask them and how sophisticated they are
Speaker:Track 4: and so like that's kind of already happening
Speaker:Track 4: in some ways and it's yeah but
Speaker:Track 4: definitely just her immediate like okay let's monetize
Speaker:Track 4: it and not only that but like was like
Speaker:Track 4: it wanting to monetize it in the first place but then on top
Speaker:Track 4: of that like i was thinking like you have like people going
Speaker:Track 4: in all night for like six hours or something like that's also just like someone
Speaker:Track 4: in there every 15 minutes uh i would be worried about overloading the system
Speaker:Track 4: but i guess if you wanted to monetize in the first place you wouldn't care about that anyways yeah.
Speaker:Track 3: I mean no maxine like just immediately was like
Speaker:Track 3: yeah no we can make money off of this like she even listened to
Speaker:Track 3: fucking craig like go on a whole like existential rant about
Speaker:Track 3: the whole thing and be like well here's a fucking window i'm out like so of
Speaker:Track 3: course she immediately was like yeah i can make money off of this that's what
Speaker:Track 3: we're gonna do and craig like he didn't think about trying to make money off
Speaker:Track 3: Because he was just like, how can I use this to get laid by Maxine?
Speaker:Track 3: Until she was like, hey, dude, you're going to help me make money off this.
Speaker:Track 3: I was like, okay, I'll do whatever the fuck you want.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah.
Speaker:Track 3: And, um...
Speaker:Track 3: I'm going to call Gen 6 Neuralink is when they're going to like really commodify
Speaker:Track 3: human experiences, like going to strip somebody else's experience that you can
Speaker:Track 3: pay for. And you can be like, oh, what does heroin feel like?
Speaker:Track 2: Goddamn. Yeah. Terrifying to think about.
Speaker:Track 3: Oh, yeah. It's sad.
Speaker:Track 2: I did. That was the one thing that honestly, that is the only moment in the
Speaker:Track 2: entire movie where I didn't feel like Craig was a complete piece of shit.
Speaker:Track 2: When he was like, actually, we shouldn't commodify human experience.
Speaker:Track 2: Like, but it's the only moment and it just like.
Speaker:Track 1: But the only reason he doesn't want to commodify it is out of self-interest
Speaker:Track 1: because he wants to be able to use it himself. Right?
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah.
Speaker:Track 3: I mean, how else is he going to be interesting to Maxine? He's a fucking puppeteer.
Speaker:Track 3: poor poor one of the lesser known ones.
Speaker:Track 2: Which later on we get a whole montage about how like john malkovich breathed
Speaker:Track 2: life into puppeteering again but there was a guy previous to this that was putting
Speaker:Track 2: on a giant it was like on tv.
Speaker:Track 3: He was in the news for it he was in the fucking news for puppeteering people.
Speaker:Track 2: In the audience crying.
Speaker:Track 3: Like in this reality you're not even winning america's got talent with fucking
Speaker:Track 3: puppeteering but in this one they can be on fucking daytime or an evening fucking news,
Speaker:Track 3: and this lesser known guy usually
Speaker:Track 3: had to fucking leverage john malkovich's name to get fame am i the only.
Speaker:Track 4: One who who really thought the scene in the beginning like the puppeteering
Speaker:Track 4: scene that it opens with was actually quite moving and impressive i guess maybe i'm the only one Wait.
Speaker:Track 3: Because it's the other guys.
Speaker:Track 2: Wait, wait, wait. Do you mean the one that opened, like, John Cusack's film scene?
Speaker:Track 3: Like, the street performance or the, like, opening credits?
Speaker:Track 4: I mean, yeah, like, when the movie opens and it's...
Speaker:Track 2: No, I do. I did think it was.
Speaker:Track 4: Like, I just...
Speaker:Track 4: I thought that was like, I thought that was very, I mean, I don't know if there
Speaker:Track 4: was movie magic, but like the puppeteering itself was like really beautiful
Speaker:Track 4: and the movements felt very fluid and lifelike.
Speaker:Track 4: So I was impressed by the initial puppeteering scene.
Speaker:Track 2: Absolutely. I mean, I was, and I do agree that it was, it's very like,
Speaker:Track 2: I do think that it was like an emotional scene and it was well done. But I'm also an art nerd.
Speaker:Track 2: And so, like, you know, there's a difference between four art nerds talking
Speaker:Track 2: about this and then, you know, like thinking that, like, you know,
Speaker:Track 2: the mass public that the news would cover it.
Speaker:Track 2: The news doesn't cover opera nowadays.
Speaker:Track 2: Like, they're not going to cover, you know, puppets.
Speaker:Track 3: Maybe Muppets, not puppets.
Speaker:Track 2: Obviously, they're going to cover Muppets. Let's be real. Muppets are people.
Speaker:Track 1: We also need to talk again about Orson Bean's character, the Dr. Lester.
Speaker:Track 1: So they go to dinner at his house as well. And when Lottie's wandering around
Speaker:Track 1: the house, she goes into this room.
Speaker:Track 1: This is the stuff that I didn't remember when I watched it. And it's basically
Speaker:Track 1: a shrine to the birth and current age of John Malkovich. Which,
Speaker:Track 1: if I had seen that, I would have been like, dude, what's up with your room up there?
Speaker:Track 4: Well, I feel like she, because that's after she goes in John Malkovich, right?
Speaker:Track 1: Right. You're right. You're right.
Speaker:Track 4: So I feel like she doesn't want to say anything because she doesn't want to
Speaker:Track 4: disrupt her ability to go back into Malkovich.
Speaker:Track 4: But, I mean, she clearly takes note of it because then after Craig takes over
Speaker:Track 4: John Malkovich full time, she goes to him and tries to figure out what's going on.
Speaker:Track 1: Why didn't they hide the door more carefully at his office? And how does he
Speaker:Track 1: choose where the door is?
Speaker:Track 2: I don't think he does.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah, I don't think there's any choice in where the door is.
Speaker:Track 3: It's like a... The best guess we have is it's based on lineage.
Speaker:Track 3: Like, it gets passed down through a family.
Speaker:Track 1: Okay.
Speaker:Track 2: And, like, it says, like, basically that, like...
Speaker:Track 2: He found a portal.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah, he found a portal, and he's able to permanently transfer every 44 years,
Speaker:Track 3: or on their 44th birthday at midnight, and he could possibly live infinitely.
Speaker:Track 4: He's the original guy who created the building that we learned about in the orientation video.
Speaker:Track 4: So like he like the seven and a half, seven and a half floor could even be that
Speaker:Track 4: short to try to keep the portal more secret or something.
Speaker:Track 4: I know there are companies there, but I could see it not being because his wife
Speaker:Track 4: was a little person, but because he found a portal somehow and then was just building around it.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah.
Speaker:Track 3: It's like in the air. That's a portal that was like in the air.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah.
Speaker:Track 4: Before there was a building there.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah how did that the.
Speaker:Track 4: Portal of the building.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah this like this world has so many elements to it that are like never answered
Speaker:Track 2: and it's like what the fuck how,
Speaker:Track 2: where why John Malkovich is friends with Charlie Sheen is a question that I
Speaker:Track 2: have which I do not think is a great question,
Speaker:Track 2: that's up there with getting to the turnpike in 15 minutes from manhattan it's
Speaker:Track 2: just unbelievable i don't they don't seem like the same guy they don't seem
Speaker:Track 2: like they'd be in the same social circles.
Speaker:Track 4: But that's also kind of why i loved it because like i
Speaker:Track 4: feel like they must have put that in there for laughs like assuming
Speaker:Track 4: that john malkovich would never be friends with
Speaker:Track 4: charlie sheen but not only is he
Speaker:Track 4: friends with him you know like kind of as they're figuring out this portal stuff
Speaker:Track 4: but then also the the um the bean guy goes and like becomes friends with him
Speaker:Track 4: when once he's john malkovich and they're friends in like their 60s or whatever you.
Speaker:Track 2: Got to keep up the facade.
Speaker:Track 4: But he invites him to to enter the next host like he he maybe to become friends
Speaker:Track 4: with them but that guy was a horn dog so that's.
Speaker:Track 3: Like part of that's like part of the whole museum.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah yeah you know what yeah actually yeah you're right dr lester would be friends
Speaker:Track 2: with charlie sheen that makes more sense that.
Speaker:Track 4: That makes.
Speaker:Track 2: Perfect sense john malkovich i don't get but dr lester being friends with charlie sheen totally.
Speaker:Track 1: The note that i found apparently it was supposed to be kevin bacon but he dropped
Speaker:Track 1: out and then And they chose Charlie Sheen.
Speaker:Track 1: And then the weird thing was, John Malkovich, about him being in the movie,
Speaker:Track 1: said that he would trust him if he was in trouble. I don't know if that's a joke.
Speaker:Track 1: I didn't find the source of that thing.
Speaker:Track 3: And Charlie Sheen's been through some shit. If I needed some help, I could go out to him.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah, I gotta be honest. If I needed to bury a body and Charlie Sheen was an
Speaker:Track 2: option, I'd go to Charlie Sheen.
Speaker:Track 4: Yeah, you could just give him some cocaine and he'd be down.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah. That is probably true.
Speaker:Track 1: Man, why do they get really dirty when they're in the portal?
Speaker:Track 1: So gross. It looks like an ear canal or something.
Speaker:Track 3: That's the grossest part. Yeah, it felt like an ear canal too,
Speaker:Track 3: but it's like dirt at the front.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah, good point.
Speaker:Track 2: It's like mud.
Speaker:Track 3: And then it turns like muddy ear canally, and then you're inside of him.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah. Bye-bye.
Speaker:Track 4: I mean, it's a portal. They're not always going to be clean.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah, that's true. It's been around a long time. You know, who's got time to clean a portal?
Speaker:Track 4: Well, plus inside your brain's gooey.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah. All right. So here's another question that I asked Bill before.
Speaker:Track 1: When the Dr. Lester has all these friends and he invites them to also go in,
Speaker:Track 1: do they talk to each other inside of his head?
Speaker:Track 4: They must, because he was saying that he wanted to bring them in because it got lonely.
Speaker:Track 4: And so it seemed like, but then my question was less about like,
Speaker:Track 4: it seemed like they could talk to each other.
Speaker:Track 4: But more like, is Dr. Lester the guy who's in control?
Speaker:Track 4: Or are they all like jockeying for control?
Speaker:Track 4: Like, who's driving John Malkovich?
Speaker:Track 3: I i was pretending it was like split where it's like all the different personalities
Speaker:Track 3: in one and whoever gets the spotlight gets the takeover that's how i pretended it was the.
Speaker:Track 2: Question at that point
Speaker:Track 2: becomes like if you don't have like so
Speaker:Track 2: like the the reason to do this is to
Speaker:Track 2: achieve essentially immortality like
Speaker:Track 2: mental immortality you
Speaker:Track 2: know but then the question becomes like if you are all in there you're not if
Speaker:Track 2: if you're not in control or you're not like conscious of it then you haven't
Speaker:Track 2: achieved immortality and if like if you all like become like one identity like,
Speaker:Track 2: losing your individuality and like losing your
Speaker:Track 2: perception of self like you again you have died you are
Speaker:Track 2: not you've not achieved your mortality and it's just that is a i feel like that
Speaker:Track 2: that is actually a major flaw in the movie because it doesn't make sense and
Speaker:Track 2: it leaves questions opened that need to be answered to explain the motivations of characters.
Speaker:Track 4: But i don't and.
Speaker:Track 2: Like mechanics of it.
Speaker:Track 4: I don't know if that's necessarily the case though because to me
Speaker:Track 4: like what i when with dr
Speaker:Track 4: lester i got real big like boomer
Speaker:Track 4: energy even though i'm not sure like what he technically would be in the film
Speaker:Track 4: or and he's also like immortal but to me it just yeah but to me it really made
Speaker:Track 4: me think of like especially before you kind of realize what his situation is he's like like, I'm 105.
Speaker:Track 4: And he's like, and I, like, piss weird. And I like, you know,
Speaker:Track 4: can't do all these things.
Speaker:Track 4: But I'm alive. And I'm also running this company.
Speaker:Track 4: And it's like, like, you won't retire, you won't like, kind of like,
Speaker:Track 4: let others take control.
Speaker:Track 4: And then in this instance, he literally won't die. And then is not only not
Speaker:Track 4: dying, but then taking his friends with him.
Speaker:Track 4: So it was just like, I think regardless of what they thought would happen when
Speaker:Track 4: all of them went into John Malkovich, they clearly were all doing the same thing,
Speaker:Track 4: which their motivation is, I don't want to die.
Speaker:Track 4: I'm going to try to live forever, even whether it works or not.
Speaker:Track 1: See, I don't think that Dr. Lester would let them in if he didn't somehow know
Speaker:Track 1: he would remain in control, because clearly he needs...
Speaker:Track 1: control i get that sense you know of all this stuff so i don't it's weird i
Speaker:Track 1: mean maybe he just you know he has a.
Speaker:Track 4: Book on it too.
Speaker:Track 3: It can be just like true he had the
Speaker:Track 3: book on it but he also like was saying that he had to
Speaker:Track 3: wait till the 44th birthday and had to get craig
Speaker:Track 3: out of there because craig's become too powerful now that
Speaker:Track 3: he would just get if he went in uh craig would just banish him to the subconscious
Speaker:Track 3: which is probably what mr dr lesser did with all the people that went with him
Speaker:Track 3: that's fucked up was he just locked them all yeah that's it's fucked up it's
Speaker:Track 3: super fucked up that's why do you think i was pretending it was the other way because.
Speaker:Track 2: You didn't want to.
Speaker:Track 3: Contend with the.
Speaker:Track 2: Fucked up in this of it.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah like this movie's already like
Speaker:Track 3: in the realm of do not overthink it because this shit doesn't make sense puppeteering's
Speaker:Track 3: famous portals fucking nonsense in the air no rules to it like yeah no that's
Speaker:Track 3: probably the reality of it is mr lester dr lester was like yeah you guys can
Speaker:Track 3: all come with me i'm tired of being alone but banished to the subconscious yeah.
Speaker:Track 4: I don't know i feel like he to me it seemed
Speaker:Track 4: like he had a genuine desire to
Speaker:Track 4: enjoy this like eternal life experience
Speaker:Track 4: with others because that's the other side
Speaker:Track 4: too is that if you live forever but
Speaker:Track 4: your loved ones don't then it's
Speaker:Track 4: like a vampire curse like yeah you could live forever but then everyone you
Speaker:Track 4: love just dies again and again and again you know generation after generation
Speaker:Track 4: and so I felt like his desire for to have companionship seemed real but who knows like,
Speaker:Track 4: what what happened but i don't know i was willing to suspend my disbelief for
Speaker:Track 4: to try to like enjoy the movie and then craig just sucks so much.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah it's dr lesser seemed real until like he straight up like kidnapped maxine
Speaker:Track 3: and threatened a killer so that he could get access to the body which and the
Speaker:Track 3: only reason he didn't follow through was because he needs that other body so
Speaker:Track 3: he can do it again in another 44 years because.
Speaker:Track 2: He's pregnant But he did say he's like, he called our bluff.
Speaker:Track 2: Like, I don't think he ever intended to hurt her.
Speaker:Track 3: Oh, yeah, because he needs another baby so he can actually achieve immortality.
Speaker:Track 2: That's a good one.
Speaker:Track 3: That's the only reason he didn't follow through with it.
Speaker:Track 4: But did he know at the time? That's the question, too, is like,
Speaker:Track 4: how do they know who the host is?
Speaker:Track 4: Because, like, theoretically, the baby would have been the next host because
Speaker:Track 4: it was the child of John Malkovich. But I don't know if like Dr. Lester, original Dr.
Speaker:Track 4: Lester was related to John Malkovich at all.
Speaker:Track 4: So like, how do they, how do they know who the hosts are?
Speaker:Track 3: See that part you can't overthink.
Speaker:Track 2: There's no answer.
Speaker:Track 4: Yeah.
Speaker:Track 3: You're not allowed to overthink this movie because there's no answers.
Speaker:Track 3: No real answers anyways.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah.
Speaker:Track 1: That whole part of the movie I had no memory of either is when,
Speaker:Track 1: so Craig takes over John Malkovich for years and he's married to Maxine. and he goes on this.
Speaker:Track 4: It's eight months, right?
Speaker:Track 3: No, it's like eight months. It's like eight months.
Speaker:Track 2: Seven years eight months yeah yeah i'm sorry.
Speaker:Track 1: Oh you're right the jump the time jumps later sorry you're right sorry but.
Speaker:Track 4: It's kind of.
Speaker:Track 1: Crazy because he.
Speaker:Track 4: Like what he gets done in eight months is like.
Speaker:Track 1: Completely like.
Speaker:Track 4: Dumps acting but then also starts from the bottom of puppeteering and then makes
Speaker:Track 4: it so he's this like internationally renowned puppeteer and i was like that
Speaker:Track 4: seems way too fast even today with like the internet and social media like i
Speaker:Track 4: don't it doesn't seem right yeah.
Speaker:Track 1: The funniest another really funny scene is
Speaker:Track 1: when maxine and john malkovich inhabited by craig go to craig's to john malkovich's
Speaker:Track 1: agent and they're like having this certain conversation like we i want to become
Speaker:Track 1: a puppeteer and he doesn't talk him out of it say anything he's just like okay
Speaker:Track 1: i'll make a few calls and just like yeah puppeteering is cool it's cool so you can do it What.
Speaker:Track 3: Universe is this?
Speaker:Track 2: Which again, establish the precedence that that's a valid career track.
Speaker:Track 2: That like your agent, that an agent would be like, okay, yeah,
Speaker:Track 2: I'll call the right, I'll call the puppeteer people.
Speaker:Track 4: But at the same time, I feel like looking at it from a leftist perspective,
Speaker:Track 4: it kind of, it felt almost like an example of like when you're,
Speaker:Track 4: when you have power and means and like a reputation.
Speaker:Track 4: you can you have these yes people who like just make anything you want happen,
Speaker:Track 4: yeah um which that's kind of how i took it that's true yeah like it's like oh
Speaker:Track 4: okay i'm your agent you want to do this okay we'll make it happen i don't know
Speaker:Track 4: we'll figure it out because like i'm a yes man yeah.
Speaker:Track 1: Totally that's and then and then you're like the montage of him becoming like
Speaker:Track 1: the famous puppeteer he's like doing a class and he starts yelling at this other guy because he's.
Speaker:Track 4: Doing it wrong.
Speaker:Track 1: Oh, that part's great. And it's just...
Speaker:Track 3: He grows his hair out all disheveled again.
Speaker:Track 2: Yes.
Speaker:Track 4: I know. I was like, dear Lord, what do you like about this hairstyle?
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah.
Speaker:Track 3: So fucking funny.
Speaker:Track 2: Listen, okay. Listen, I'm going to,
Speaker:Track 2: as I'm just, this is a public service announcement for listeners. Okay.
Speaker:Track 2: If you are a man and you are going bald, just shave your fucking head. Okay.
Speaker:Track 2: I say this as a man who was going bald and I shaved my head.
Speaker:Track 2: It looks better, as evidenced by John Malkovich, who grows this horrible,
Speaker:Track 2: ratty haircut so he can look like John Cusack in the beginning of this movie,
Speaker:Track 2: and it looks terrible. Just go bald.
Speaker:Track 2: Go bald.
Speaker:Track 4: There are worse things than being bald. And one of them is being bald,
Speaker:Track 4: but using your remaining hair and growing it out and putting it in.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah.
Speaker:Track 1: And the thing that also is, is when he, when he's John Malkovich this whole
Speaker:Track 1: time and he gets sort of the person he had fantasized about having and marries
Speaker:Track 1: Maxine, neither of them seem at all happy.
Speaker:Track 1: I mean, she seems miserable and because she still is in love with,
Speaker:Track 1: you know, with Lottie and it's.
Speaker:Track 4: Well, it's just again, it goes back to the lack of like them having like Maxine
Speaker:Track 4: and Craig not having any real connection because he like he just fantasizes.
Speaker:Track 4: I was thinking, you know, she's kind of like a manic pixie dream girl because
Speaker:Track 4: it's like, oh, you're sexy and hot and exciting and and confident and in control and all this stuff.
Speaker:Track 4: But then, like, there's no actual connection.
Speaker:Track 4: Again, I don't think they had a real conversation throughout the entire movie.
Speaker:Track 4: And so it's like, he just gets back into his comfort of his weird,
Speaker:Track 4: gross, long hair and like just being gross Craig, which she's really not happy with.
Speaker:Track 2: I, he seemed perfectly happy. Like that's really, he, he seemed perfectly happy.
Speaker:Track 2: The thing is that like, all he actually wanted was to be a puppeteer.
Speaker:Track 2: That's it. That's what he wanted. He wanted to be a puppeteer and he wanted
Speaker:Track 2: to be a famous puppeteer.
Speaker:Track 2: And like, I feel like Maxine is actually has like actual character growth because
Speaker:Track 2: she realizes, Oh wait, no,
Speaker:Track 2: actually I do want a real connection with a real person, like relationship,
Speaker:Track 2: like an actual relationship with a person matters.
Speaker:Track 2: That's actually important. Yeah.
Speaker:Track 2: But he, you know, all she was ever to him was a fantasy.
Speaker:Track 2: That's all she ever was to him. And in the end, all that really mattered to
Speaker:Track 2: him was being a puppeteer.
Speaker:Track 4: Yeah. And even when she was, you know, she's like in love with Lottie,
Speaker:Track 4: but then he has a way to control Malkovich.
Speaker:Track 4: And then so she kind of goes with him because, ooh, like it's a sexy new power,
Speaker:Track 4: like power play of not only is he in there, but he's controlling, too.
Speaker:Track 4: And that like is like more interesting than Lottie. And then she realizes her
Speaker:Track 4: mistake when she wants to go back.
Speaker:Track 4: So many like just fantasy and escapism themes.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah. Like those, does they come back over and over the whole time?
Speaker:Track 1: yeah he does actually seem happy you're right
Speaker:Track 1: and the like the the culmination of sort
Speaker:Track 1: of the the ending of the movie which is i
Speaker:Track 1: again also didn't remember is that they you
Speaker:Track 1: said before is that the doctor uh lester
Speaker:Track 1: threatens to you know to hurt
Speaker:Track 1: maxine if he doesn't come out and then he you know he does come out and then
Speaker:Track 1: they all enter enter him and now maxine is with lottie together like they're
Speaker:Track 1: in the they're in the street by the by and they just drive away they think like
Speaker:Track 1: give him the finger and he'd maybe like on the out of the car or something.
Speaker:Track 2: She he tries to get in the cab and maxine is like she was like fuck him like
Speaker:Track 2: we don't know him or something.
Speaker:Track 1: Like that okay which.
Speaker:Track 4: That was kind of amazing yeah.
Speaker:Track 1: And then he goes into jump the down the the portal but after midnight and so now he is,
Speaker:Track 1: stuck in the subconscious forever. And now he's as the baby that's born.
Speaker:Track 1: I think that's when it's eight years later.
Speaker:Track 1: And so he sees everything through the child, but he can't control anything.
Speaker:Track 1: And he's just, yeah, he's like the opposite. Yeah. Sorry.
Speaker:Track 4: No, no, no. I mean, once I watched the ending, I remembered it,
Speaker:Track 4: but I didn't remember like going in, but that ending
Speaker:Track 4: just like horrifies me where he's stuck in the child because again going back
Speaker:Track 4: to this kind of like incel view of craig it's like i can't have you and so then
Speaker:Track 4: i'm literally going to like,
Speaker:Track 4: be a leech and be still somehow part of your life and corrupt like your child,
Speaker:Track 4: um it was just so insane like i'm still like blah like uh like you're you just
Speaker:Track 4: continue to ruin things i.
Speaker:Track 3: Mean this is the guy who locked his wife in a cage.
Speaker:Track 4: With a monkey and that's like the thing it's kind of like an abuser's type thing
Speaker:Track 4: where it's like not only like even if you leave even if you get away i'm still
Speaker:Track 4: haunting you in some way or another i'm still figuring out a way to make your
Speaker:Track 4: life miserable because i'm not with you and you're not my play thing while.
Speaker:Track 2: Allegorically that all does fit
Speaker:Track 2: in the context of the film he doesn't know that he doesn't know that he's going
Speaker:Track 2: to end up in the kid he does not have the information about midnight or 44 years
Speaker:Track 2: old or any of that he doesn't have any of that information he assumes he's going
Speaker:Track 2: to end up back in john Malkovich.
Speaker:Track 4: True.
Speaker:Track 1: But this is already passed on and it's- Yeah.
Speaker:Track 2: He doesn't know any of that. He's just, he tried to go back into Malkovich.
Speaker:Track 4: But he's still like, I mean, from the seven or eight year jump or whatever,
Speaker:Track 4: like he he's still like Maxine, Maxine, still pining for her.
Speaker:Track 4: And the part that I guess maybe scared me the most was just the idea of like
Speaker:Track 4: him trying to figure out some way to control the kid.
Speaker:Track 4: And still, like, even if it's not intentional for him to have ended up with
Speaker:Track 4: a kid, he's still using that position to try.
Speaker:Track 4: Like, I would imagine that he would still be trying to, like,
Speaker:Track 4: take control of her or somehow otherwise, like, interact and have agency over the situation.
Speaker:Track 1: Isn't his, the last line he says is to look, like, look away,
Speaker:Track 1: you know, look away from her. You know, it's killing him to watch them together.
Speaker:Track 4: Yeah.
Speaker:Track 1: And it's just, it's, like, haunting. It's really just, it's a very disturbing ending.
Speaker:Track 4: Yeah.
Speaker:Track 2: I choose to believe that he is in the subconscious and will never,
Speaker:Track 2: ever figure out how to control the kid, and that this is just his hell.
Speaker:Track 2: This is hell. He's going to live out his days as a consciousness, totally powerless,
Speaker:Track 2: witnessing the world, incapable of interacting with it,
Speaker:Track 2: watching other watching the the
Speaker:Track 2: woman he spurned who he married and betrayed and the woman who he loved and
Speaker:Track 2: spurned him live their life out happy together and he gets to watch that in
Speaker:Track 2: hell that's what i that's how i that's how i take it see.
Speaker:Track 3: Bill gets it bill gets it you pick a reality and that's.
Speaker:Track 2: The one you accept because it's happier than the alternatives when it comes
Speaker:Track 2: to this movie Listen, we, according to the rules of the universe,
Speaker:Track 2: as we are presented today,
Speaker:Track 2: That is the logical explanation.
Speaker:Track 2: According to Dr. Lester, who is the expert? We have to assume Dr.
Speaker:Track 2: Lester is someone that wrote that book. Who found Dr. Lester?
Speaker:Track 4: I feel like he found the book.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah, that's what I thought.
Speaker:Track 4: Too. I feel like this is some weird ancient practice beyond him.
Speaker:Track 2: So wait, you think there's other portals into other heads?
Speaker:Track 4: I don't know if there's others. And I don't know why that particular portal
Speaker:Track 4: is where it is. but it if someone i mean that book was thick like i it seemed like he's.
Speaker:Track 2: Been around a while.
Speaker:Track 4: Yeah i guess so i don't know it felt like there was a society or something behind
Speaker:Track 4: it or some ancient knowledge being shared wait.
Speaker:Track 1: Here's a question if the child grows up and has a child of her own will craig
Speaker:Track 1: go into that child and then have to live this literal eternity assuming each
Speaker:Track 1: one of No, it dies with that person.
Speaker:Track 4: Yeah, because otherwise he doesn't have a portal to transfer into the other child.
Speaker:Track 1: Okay.
Speaker:Track 2: Exactly.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah, this is heavily portal-reliant.
Speaker:Track 2: This is a portal-reliant technology, and by technology, I mean practice.
Speaker:Track 3: I fucking know how it works.
Speaker:Track 4: You can't get anywhere unless you go through the wet, dirty portal.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah, yeah, unless you crawl through the slimy portal.
Speaker:Track 1: So this is i just figured out if you live in new jersey and you have to or if
Speaker:Track 1: you live in new york and you live or you work in new york and you live in new
Speaker:Track 1: jersey this is a quick quick easy way to get home you just honestly.
Speaker:Track 4: That's what they should have folded as like i want to get to the turnpike in.
Speaker:Track 1: 15 minutes pop through this portal you just have.
Speaker:Track 4: To be john.
Speaker:Track 1: Malkovich why didn't they set up why didn't they leave a car there i.
Speaker:Track 4: Didn't understand that either.
Speaker:Track 3: They made Craig drive every single time for every single customer.
Speaker:Track 4: And then he got back in 15 minutes.
Speaker:Track 2: This is an incredible... I love this alternate story where instead of...
Speaker:Track 2: Being John Alkowicz is totally ancillary.
Speaker:Track 2: It is not even the main attraction. It's just, listen, we've perfected public transit.
Speaker:Track 2: The true leftist dream. We've perfected public transit.
Speaker:Track 2: You crawl through this fucking hole and you get to skip all that shit.
Speaker:Track 2: You get 15 minutes. Boop. Right there.
Speaker:Track 2: What I want to know is why didn't they put some fucking mattresses down?
Speaker:Track 2: At least these people are getting launched from like 10 feet up in the air.
Speaker:Track 2: It was hitting the ground. Put some padding down.
Speaker:Track 2: Someone's going to get hurt.
Speaker:Track 4: I feel like there could have been a lot of improvements. Like why not have like
Speaker:Track 4: a van waiting and just pick all the people up and then drive them back.
Speaker:Track 4: Maybe some mattress. this. Maybe some towels.
Speaker:Track 1: Put some snacks.
Speaker:Track 4: Made this a luxury experience.
Speaker:Track 2: You could monetize that. Those are package buy-ons.
Speaker:Track 4: You want a towel? Here's 10 bucks. Or give me 10 bucks.
Speaker:Track 4: I mean, that's the thing, though. That's the portal from the capitalist perspective,
Speaker:Track 4: where it starts off that you're just selling access.
Speaker:Track 4: And then it's like slowly you add on more and more and more amenities to all
Speaker:Track 4: of a sudden where you're like, you know, I used to be able to go in the portal
Speaker:Track 4: for 200 bucks. Now it costs, you know, $400, and they don't even give you a ride home anymore.
Speaker:Track 1: Right.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah, that's only part of the platinum package now, and I'm not paying for that.
Speaker:Track 1: You have to become a member.
Speaker:Track 4: Yeah.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah.
Speaker:Track 1: It's like Costco. You're like, oh, I can... See, I think you were saying before
Speaker:Track 1: that there might be other... I think that the portal stays there for the next person. I think it does.
Speaker:Track 4: Too.
Speaker:Track 1: That's why he built the building. It, that's why the building he owned because
Speaker:Track 1: it can, he, for eternity, he also has to live in New York.
Speaker:Track 2: That's fucked up.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah, that's its own kind of hell.
Speaker:Track 4: I mean, at the very least, he needs to keep that building. Like, I don't know if he has.
Speaker:Track 4: Once he's transferred into the next host, I mean, he just needs to keep it safe.
Speaker:Track 4: And I don't think he needs to physically be entering and exiting.
Speaker:Track 1: I mean, that's the only reason he keeps that ridiculous business, right?
Speaker:Track 1: I mean, it's just to make sure he's monetized this floor to protect his portal. That's it.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah.
Speaker:Track 1: And he's into the filing. eventually that could just be a data center yeah.
Speaker:Track 4: They don't need to to.
Speaker:Track 1: Stand up right on.
Speaker:Track 4: Like a fully.
Speaker:Track 1: Fully hided floor god you you think you'd be so it would destroy your body to
Speaker:Track 1: work god yes jeez it like hurt me to watch that that'd.
Speaker:Track 3: Be so hard on the body.
Speaker:Track 4: I was thinking about like the actors and like if you were doing extended takes
Speaker:Track 4: and like hours like hunched over i don't know what the filming process is like but i was like oh like.
Speaker:Track 1: I wonder if the if it was like i'm sure it was on a sound stage but maybe the
Speaker:Track 1: ceiling can just lift up so that you know after they film the part they just
Speaker:Track 1: lift up and they can stand up that's would be my hope because they just walk
Speaker:Track 1: around hunched somehow i doubt it yeah no,
Speaker:Track 1: I mean, the movie cost $13 million. I mean, there isn't a lot of money.
Speaker:Track 1: They had to pay for the portal and the John Malkovich, and that's about it.
Speaker:Track 4: Yeah, but a million of that was into, like, lifting the floor,
Speaker:Track 4: ceiling, like, all the hydraulics for that. So, actors would be comfortable.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah, but, like, a solid, you know, five was hiring the puppeteer to do all the puppet work.
Speaker:Track 1: The puppet stuff was pretty impressive. You know, I assume that it was all real.
Speaker:Track 2: It was all real. It was done by a puppeteer.
Speaker:Track 2: His name is Philip Huber, and it says, Jones, he's a full-time puppeteer,
Speaker:Track 2: and he controls his puppets only using strings and swinging the puppets on high wires, no rods.
Speaker:Track 1: That's impressive.
Speaker:Track 3: You know, I'm not a puppeteer. I don't think it's that impressive.
Speaker:Track 1: You live in the wrong timeline, Ward.
Speaker:Track 1: You don't live in the puppet timeline where this is like the greatest art form.
Speaker:Track 3: Yeah, you just got to be really good or be famous already to make it.
Speaker:Track 2: He's in the World Encyclopedia of Puppetry Arts.
Speaker:Track 4: Wow.
Speaker:Track 1: Another running joke that I thought was funny is when everyone recognizes John
Speaker:Track 1: Malkovich for some movie he's not in.
Speaker:Track 4: That was great. Like the Jewel Heist movie.
Speaker:Track 3: That was a good little bit.
Speaker:Track 1: He's like, I wasn't in that. And then everyone also says the same thing.
Speaker:Track 1: And it's just, yeah. There's lots of good gags and little, like,
Speaker:Track 1: the attention to all the details of all of the things and the jokes and everything is,
Speaker:Track 1: you know, for a movie that's extremely dark and has the most insufferable person
Speaker:Track 1: imaginable as one of the main characters, they made it funny enough where you can get through it.
Speaker:Track 4: Yeah, like...
Speaker:Track 4: I feel like it was, like, a good movie that I thought had some interesting themes,
Speaker:Track 4: but I just, like, kind of hated all the characters.
Speaker:Track 4: Lottie, it didn't bother me as much because whereas, like,
Speaker:Track 4: Craig felt like an incel who could never, like, have any sense of his own personality
Speaker:Track 4: because of many reasons and had nothing to offer.
Speaker:Track 4: and like Maxine was like self-serving but
Speaker:Track 4: Lottie like she was still kind of
Speaker:Track 4: messed up but it seemed like her messed upness was
Speaker:Track 4: coming more from a place of like actual like
Speaker:Track 4: kind of lack of power in her own life
Speaker:Track 4: like you know she wanted to have a baby um with
Speaker:Track 4: Craig and he's you know off trying to puppeteer and
Speaker:Track 4: then you know trying to cheat on her and all this stuff later
Speaker:Track 4: on but it did seem like her any of her bad actions were coming more from a place
Speaker:Track 4: of like sadness like earnest sadness and pain versus like self uh inflicted
Speaker:Track 4: pain or or just lack of caring yeah.
Speaker:Track 2: Lottie's like if we're like you know look at this like from like a you know
Speaker:Track 2: like a theater you know like the tragic flaw you know from a theatrical like
Speaker:Track 2: point of view like a classic like you know like to me like lottie's,
Speaker:Track 2: Lottie is a victim of her own life.
Speaker:Track 2: empathy and her own sensitivity
Speaker:Track 2: which is exemplified by all of
Speaker:Track 2: the animals and her like self-sacrificing and
Speaker:Track 2: like all the sacrifices she constantly makes for those animals you know like
Speaker:Track 2: throughout the entire movie it's all about like she's trying to help these animals
Speaker:Track 2: do these you know like take care of them you know the iguana is wounded you
Speaker:Track 2: know elijah has childhood trauma,
Speaker:Track 2: he's going through psychotherapy yeah he's going through psychotherapy we're
Speaker:Track 2: going to ignore the fact that chimps should not be in basement apartments in
Speaker:Track 2: new york city uh that's you know,
Speaker:Track 2: besides the point uh but she still deeply cares about all these animals and
Speaker:Track 2: you know like and and the fact that she wants a kid is part of that like you
Speaker:Track 2: know she wants to foster life and like care for things yeah no.
Speaker:Track 4: Exactly it felt much more like she just over gave and had nothing left for herself.
Speaker:Track 2: I mean that's why her husband does fucking nothing and she lets him do it.
Speaker:Track 4: I feel like there's a certain amount in those types of dynamics too where she
Speaker:Track 4: is doing everything because she's given up on trying to get him to do anything
Speaker:Track 4: and so which plays out in a lot of marriages,
Speaker:Track 4: but like, she's just kind of like, okay, well,
Speaker:Track 4: you know, and then even the one thing that she wants from him,
Speaker:Track 4: which is a kid, which God knows he's not going to do anything for,
Speaker:Track 4: but like, he can't, you know, give that to her.
Speaker:Track 4: So she's just kind of like, okay, well, then I'll keep doing,
Speaker:Track 4: I keep like taking care of my animals and finding like other ways to find,
Speaker:Track 4: fulfillment while like, you know, her, her husband and her theoretical partner
Speaker:Track 4: is just floundering and completely obsessed with his own fantasies.
Speaker:Track 1: Speaking of fulfillment, one of the things I was thinking about,
Speaker:Track 1: and there's also a joke in it too, when they opened the business to go down...
Speaker:Track 1: the portal there are a massive
Speaker:Track 1: line of people right and well
Speaker:Track 1: i think he asked i think they one person asked like um you
Speaker:Track 1: know who who who the person is and they say john malkovich
Speaker:Track 1: and he goes that was my second choice but
Speaker:Track 1: it's wonderful which is a great joke i don't
Speaker:Track 1: just to that he actually john malkovich was
Speaker:Track 1: a second choice but all these people under like
Speaker:Track 1: this horrible individualistic capitalist system are choosing 15 minutes to be
Speaker:Track 1: someone else because their lives are so terrible presumably just i mean it speaks
Speaker:Track 1: volumes of just the just i.
Speaker:Track 4: Feel like yeah like it speaks to you have
Speaker:Track 4: dissatisfaction with modern life and like from
Speaker:Track 4: a lot of different angles you have these lines of people
Speaker:Track 4: who are lining up to be someone else for even
Speaker:Track 4: 15 minutes and escape their lives you have
Speaker:Track 4: Lottie who you know is trying
Speaker:Track 4: to like you know it's the only time she has power otherwise she feels powerless
Speaker:Track 4: is when she's in John Malkovich and Maxine is you know kind of just chasing
Speaker:Track 4: illusions of power but also like ends up disillusioned with it at the end of
Speaker:Track 4: And it's just like everyone's unhappy for a different reason and they're all dissatisfied.
Speaker:Track 4: And I kind of feel like that's true under capitalism where like we're all just dissatisfied.
Speaker:Track 3: Capitalism's exploitation leading to alienation is probably the most consistent
Speaker:Track 3: string between our universes.
Speaker:Track 4: Yeah.
Speaker:Track 1: And every movie we cover.
Speaker:Track 2: Ooh, string?
Speaker:Track 2: Like a puppet string?
Speaker:Track 4: Wow.
Speaker:Track 3: No pun intended.
Speaker:Track 2: I really do think, you know, like as leftists,
Speaker:Track 2: as Marxists, you know, we talk about a lot of things, you know,
Speaker:Track 2: I do think that like alienation is something that needs to be at the forefront
Speaker:Track 2: of conversations with people outside of leftist or Marxist circles to,
Speaker:Track 2: to really, it's, it is one of the most important things to make clear to other people,
Speaker:Track 2: to bring them to the understanding of the issues at hand, but more importantly,
Speaker:Track 2: the personal issues, why they feel a way, why they're impacted by things.
Speaker:Track 2: And alienation is not an easy concept for a lot of people to grasp,
Speaker:Track 2: And it is presented often in a very poor way.
Speaker:Track 2: And I really do think that alienation is something that is so vital to understanding
Speaker:Track 2: for mental health alone and being able to cope with the system even as you struggle within it.
Speaker:Track 2: It is something, you know, and we come back to it all the time.
Speaker:Track 2: And I think the fact that we do and the fact that art does is so indicative
Speaker:Track 2: of the impact it has and the importance it has on human beings.
Speaker:Track 4: Well, yeah. I mean, I like talk a lot about, you know, if you can't boycott
Speaker:Track 4: or just want to do more, one of the best things you can do is go talk to your
Speaker:Track 4: neighbors and like build local community.
Speaker:Track 4: and it doesn't mean being best friends with your neighbors but just like.
Speaker:Track 4: Having a conversation with them and, you know, generally having a sense of like,
Speaker:Track 4: hey, you know, I could call you if I need a cup of sugar or something like that.
Speaker:Track 4: But I think that's the thing in our modern, like,
Speaker:Track 4: hyper-optimized capitalist world
Speaker:Track 4: we live in right now is that everything has made you so you just are.
Speaker:Track 4: You know, a unit that has moved throughout your day.
Speaker:Track 4: you you get up and you
Speaker:Track 4: get ready for work and then for most people you get in
Speaker:Track 4: your car by yourself to drive to your you know
Speaker:Track 4: cubicle by yourself or you work from home which is
Speaker:Track 4: amazing you know a lot of the time but can also be
Speaker:Track 4: isolating because you're just you know alone in
Speaker:Track 4: your house or maybe with you know other people um and
Speaker:Track 4: then so you like you basically go to work where you're
Speaker:Track 4: in your you know cubicle where you're sitting there
Speaker:Track 4: by yourself and probably in a bunch
Speaker:Track 4: of meetings all day where you have no absolute real connection you're
Speaker:Track 4: just trying to talk about whatever work stuff and then
Speaker:Track 4: you get in your car by yourself go home and and
Speaker:Track 4: I don't know if you have like a partner or something around that's
Speaker:Track 4: great but like otherwise you're by yourself again or maybe you
Speaker:Track 4: have some roommates that probably don't want to talk to you um
Speaker:Track 4: and so well I don't know it depends a new roommate situation I prefer when I've
Speaker:Track 4: had roommates I prefer them to be people that I'm not friends with because I
Speaker:Track 4: just find it easier um but or at least not close friends with not that I'm unfriendly
Speaker:Track 4: with but um but yeah I mean I think so much.
Speaker:Track 4: Even if you try to go out and like, like people are staring at their phones,
Speaker:Track 4: they're not looking around, they're not interacting with you.
Speaker:Track 4: They're just, or they have headphones in or whatever. Like we have so many ways
Speaker:Track 4: to separate ourselves from others that, um, I think people like,
Speaker:Track 4: honestly, since COVID have realized the importance of those small connections and the importance of,
Speaker:Track 4: talking to people and hanging out with them in person and catching up with your
Speaker:Track 4: friend, even if maybe you're, you know,
Speaker:Track 4: tired and don't want to do it, but you're like, okay, it's worth it.
Speaker:Track 4: I'll feel better in the end. Yeah.
Speaker:Track 2: But there's also the aspects of like alienation from oneself.
Speaker:Track 2: And that is the thing people do not, that is, that is something that we constantly come back to.
Speaker:Track 2: The alienation from oneself and how you are alienated from yourself by the system.
Speaker:Track 2: Because like you said, you're turned into a cog. you're just turned into a
Speaker:Track 2: thing that does what other people want to do that you don't
Speaker:Track 2: have investment in it's why like when i
Speaker:Track 2: became self-employed i became even more like literally
Speaker:Track 2: when i became self-employed i'm like i'm an independent contractor i do my
Speaker:Track 2: own work for myself i don't have employees you know i became even more a rabid
Speaker:Track 2: communist like because i'm like i want everyone to be able to have a say in
Speaker:Track 2: their life the way i do when it comes to their labor I want everyone to have that.
Speaker:Track 2: I want everyone to feel invested in that way because it is the antithesis of alienation.
Speaker:Track 2: When you feel connected to your labor and your life in a way through yourself.
Speaker:Track 3: As opposed to just typical Americans coming home from their job that they fucking
Speaker:Track 3: hate, doing stuff that they marginally enjoy at home.
Speaker:Track 3: feeling bad for it because they could be using that time to make more money
Speaker:Track 3: to cover all the rest of the fucking bills that they have to deal with.
Speaker:Track 2: And i don't even like sometimes i don't even like my job
Speaker:Track 2: like it's like but it's still better you know no matter what it's still like
Speaker:Track 2: you know sometimes i don't like it because you know like nothing is easy all
Speaker:Track 2: the time sometimes it's hard you know it's like i do physical labor you know
Speaker:Track 2: but it's still yeah at least at least i'm doing it for myself and my loved ones you.
Speaker:Track 4: Have so many people who are
Speaker:Track 4: just working jobs that they hate and even if
Speaker:Track 4: they came into it you know like
Speaker:Track 4: my professional experience is working in like marketing and you can go into
Speaker:Track 4: it and you there i've had clients before that were like good companies that
Speaker:Track 4: i like wanted to promote and you know wanted to do good work and liked what i was doing.
Speaker:Track 4: And I'd, you know, like I, there are parts of it that I really enjoyed and found
Speaker:Track 4: meaning in, but then like there was the other, you know, 98% of the time where it's just awful.
Speaker:Track 4: And then again, over the last few years, I feel like as office workers are being
Speaker:Track 4: like more and more optimized, it's just like any, any corporate job you get it.
Speaker:Track 4: Like, even if you went into it with the best intentions or, or thought it was
Speaker:Track 4: related to meaningful work.
Speaker:Track 4: I feel like that the profit motive just kills all of that so quickly.
Speaker:Track 2: Yeah. Evan, would you like to talk about your experience in the office? I can't hear you.
Speaker:Track 1: As someone who works in corporate America, that is 100% true.
Speaker:Track 4: I spent a long time in corporate America. I'm glad I'm out now.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah it's yeah it's uh yeah it's its own um,
Speaker:Track 1: beast of things and yeah and
Speaker:Track 1: then and and the and what they do
Speaker:Track 1: and though i mean all these jobs are taking things away take away benefits
Speaker:Track 1: all these things but the way that they're always framed
Speaker:Track 1: is that it's you know actually it's actually good for you the worker somehow
Speaker:Track 1: that we're gonna you know make you go into the office three days a week because
Speaker:Track 1: then you get to socialize with other people and then take phone calls from your
Speaker:Track 1: desk for people who aren't in the office which i could have taken from my apartment
Speaker:Track 1: so yeah i had strong feelings about that.
Speaker:Track 4: I feel it i've like i've worked
Speaker:Track 4: at companies where everybody in like one offices area has to go into the office
Speaker:Track 4: but then by the time they enacted that policy everyone left that city so like
Speaker:Track 4: there would only be one or two people in the office and then like you'd have
Speaker:Track 4: to go like three days a week and it's like what is the point of this.
Speaker:Track 2: I feel like it is a it's an interesting note that to talk about like this kind
Speaker:Track 2: of thing and the fact that the portal is in an office building in an incredibly
Speaker:Track 2: uncomfortable floor of an office building.
Speaker:Track 1: Where they have to use a crowbar on the elevator.
Speaker:Track 4: That was the part that I just thought was so funny because you built the floor.
Speaker:Track 4: You could have figured out a way. And like the thing is too is that on the half
Speaker:Track 4: floor they have the elevator bays so like they i feel like they could have done
Speaker:Track 4: something and that's just crazy how like nope it's a crowbar yeah.
Speaker:Track 2: Dr
Speaker:Track 1: Lester has to.
Speaker:Track 2: Climb up that every day you have to you you can call the elevator to that floor
Speaker:Track 2: when you're on the floor but you.
Speaker:Track 4: Can't yeah go.
Speaker:Track 2: To the floor yeah.
Speaker:Track 4: It doesn't it's crazy yeah.
Speaker:Track 1: Stop questioning it, Bill.
Speaker:Track 3: You can't think about it too much. You just can't.
Speaker:Track 3: You got to pick a reality you like, and then hopefully it's happy,
Speaker:Track 3: and then you move forward.
Speaker:Track 4: Honestly, though, how I could see this playing out in the real world is that
Speaker:Track 4: they built the building before there was modern elevators. Maybe they had old ones or something.
Speaker:Track 4: And then they upgraded the elevators at some point. And they couldn't figure
Speaker:Track 4: out a way for the doors to open on the half floor.
Speaker:Track 4: So they're just like, okay, well, we'll just do a crowbar.
Speaker:Track 4: Like, not actually figuring out a solution, but just moving on.
Speaker:Track 3: See, I got similar thinking, if I am to think about this. Similar thinking, but Dr.
Speaker:Track 3: Lester never intended for anyone to ever go to that floor except for him.
Speaker:Track 3: But then the rampant capitalism, he's got to pay for shit and quality of life.
Speaker:Track 3: So now he's got to monetize that fucking floor.
Speaker:Track 3: So it was an afterthought of actually people going to that floor.
Speaker:Track 4: And they have that ongoing joke where it's like, well, the overhead's low.
Speaker:Track 2: That was pretty funny. That is a good joke. That's a really good joke. The overhead is low.
Speaker:Track 1: It's literally what an office would probably do at some point.
Speaker:Track 1: You could actually see a company being like, well, we'll have these short floors.
Speaker:Track 1: I mean, maybe not a half floor, but we'll just have a, you know.
Speaker:Track 3: Oh, they'll definitely bring the ceiling down and then have,
Speaker:Track 3: like, an orientation thing about how much they're saving percentage-wise per year just on AC alone.
Speaker:Track 1: Less heating.
Speaker:Track 4: But that's the thing, like, I don't know, it's, like, almost the scary side
Speaker:Track 4: of it is that you could see, like...
Speaker:Track 4: somehow this coming to fruition in real life because oh well we need to save
Speaker:Track 4: on real estate and okay we're just gonna have it be half the floor like it's
Speaker:Track 4: which is crazy like that's what we've come to is that that feels like it could
Speaker:Track 4: be an actual possibility it's.
Speaker:Track 2: A bad we live in.
Speaker:Track 4: A bad system hey.
Speaker:Track 3: It could be worse puppeteers could be a real job.
Speaker:Track 4: Okay you know what i'm just gonna put it out here.
Speaker:Track 4: I want to see the next puppeteer. If you're out there and you have an amazing
Speaker:Track 4: puppeteer act, hit me up at cutoff the spigot.
Speaker:Track 4: I want to see it because I really feel like there is artistry in it.
Speaker:Track 4: You need the Hamilton of puppetry to happen.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah. Lin-Manuel Moran. I said his name wrong.
Speaker:Track 2: Wow.
Speaker:Track 1: If you're listening...
Speaker:Track 2: Make make this happen wait you you're asking specifically in manuel miranda to make no he.
Speaker:Track 1: Can he can find the the people that can make that happen.
Speaker:Track 2: He's got the.
Speaker:Track 1: He's got the skills.
Speaker:Track 2: Just muppets muppets are fine we got muppets muppets are fine bring us some
Speaker:Track 2: muppets if you got muppets out there and bring us some muppets yeah.
Speaker:Track 4: I feel like i'm the only person who's like.
Speaker:Track 2: In different.
Speaker:Track 4: I know people love them, but I've just never, like, they're okay,
Speaker:Track 4: but I've never been like, oh, I love the Muppets.
Speaker:Track 2: Well, there goes that friendship.
Speaker:Track 3: I'm on board now because of having to watch the Muppets Christmas Carol for
Speaker:Track 3: the podcast episode. I was like, oh, shit.
Speaker:Track 3: You know, I was never like a Muppets guy at all before this.
Speaker:Track 4: But uh maybe that's what i need it's kind of sick.
Speaker:Track 3: I like this this is good.
Speaker:Track 4: I i honestly like i don't think i've seen any of the muppet movies or anything so maybe that.
Speaker:Track 1: One is really good and it has uh and it has um yeah michael kane is the as the one.
Speaker:Track 4: Human well i do love michael kane yeah.
Speaker:Track 2: Muppet christmas carol is and then you can listen to our episode which features
Speaker:Track 2: my wife which we talk about love because my my wife loves a muppet christmas
Speaker:Track 2: carol and muppets in general.
Speaker:Track 2: We have a Muppet.
Speaker:Track 4: I'll have to check it out.
Speaker:Track 1: I realized at the beginning you didn't tell people about your cut off the spigot, Alexa.
Speaker:Track 2: Yes, please. And tell us about Cut Off the Spigot.
Speaker:Track 4: Yeah. So with Cut Off the Spigot, I research alternatives to badly behaving
Speaker:Track 4: companies, big corporations, and private equity firms.
Speaker:Track 4: So I share articles on Substack every Friday. And then I make video recaps on
Speaker:Track 4: Instagram, TikTok, Upscroll, YouTube, Blue Sky.
Speaker:Track 4: And then I also have my website, cutoffthespigot.com, where you can find,
Speaker:Track 4: you can search articles, find resources, shop my merch and all sorts of fun stuff.
Speaker:Track 4: But basically, I find alternatives so you don't have to.
Speaker:Track 1: Well, Lexa, thank you for coming back on Left of the Projector.
Speaker:Track 1: It was, we all went through the portal into John Malkovich together here.
Speaker:Track 4: Yeah. but it's so gooey it was gooey.
Speaker:Track 1: Yeah um.
Speaker:Track 4: But thank you so much for having me again.
Speaker:Track 1: Of course so you should go check out those channels that are in the description
Speaker:Track 1: and you can if you're listening to this you haven't subscribed you can subscribe
Speaker:Track 1: at left of the projector.com on any of the platforms you so choose and we will catch you next time.
