Episode 212
A Nightmare on Elm Street (1984)
This week we have the the trio that brought you The Menu episode, SmirkGently and Oslowe. We dip our toes into the Freddy Kruger franchise and tackle A Nightmare on Elm Street.
Left of the Projector Links
https://leftoftheprojectorpod.threadless.com/
https://www.instagram.com/the_red_gobbo/
https://www.instagram.com/millennialmarxist1/
Transcript
Evan: Hello and welcome to Left of the Projector. I am your host, Evan,
Speaker:Evan: back again with another film discussion from the left.
Speaker:Evan: You can follow the show at leftoftheprojector.com.
Speaker:Evan: As it is spooky season, this week we are diving into a Wes Craven classic,
Speaker:Evan: the 1984 film A Nightmare on Elm Street, which jump-started a,
Speaker:Evan: I believe, seven-film franchise.
Speaker:Evan: Maybe that doesn't include the newest one, but many, many, many,
Speaker:Evan: many movies in this franchise. But we'll be focusing on the first one.
Speaker:Evan: And with me, I have horror guru Oslo, who you may remember from other such episodes
Speaker:Evan: as the Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
Speaker:Evan: And I have Smirk or Ashley, who you also may know from many episodes,
Speaker:Evan: including The Menu with aforementioned Oslo.
Speaker:Evan: Thank you both for being here today.
Speaker:Ashley: Thank you for having me.
Speaker:Oslowe: Thank you so much for having me back.
Speaker:Evan: Given that it is, you know, spooky season, I'm going to ask for,
Speaker:Evan: before we talk about the film, I'm curious if you have a horror movie you would
Speaker:Evan: recommend to the listening audience.
Speaker:Evan: And it may or may not be related to this film, or it could just be something you saw recently.
Speaker:Evan: And you can't say The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
Speaker:Evan: But you should all listen to our discussion on The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
Speaker:Oslowe: Today, I was revisiting Ryan Coogler's Sinners, and I was revisiting this absolute
Speaker:Oslowe: masterpiece of genre play, because on the drive into work,
Speaker:Oslowe: my buddy and I were just, you know, randoming music,
Speaker:Oslowe: and Jimi Hendrix's Voodoo Child had come on.
Speaker:Oslowe: And that is obviously older than all of us, but it's a great,
Speaker:Oslowe: great electric blues song.
Speaker:Oslowe: And it made me go, oh, when I get into the office, I'm going to put on a certain movie on my screen.
Speaker:Oslowe: And so, yeah, that's my recommendation for people that want that feeling,
Speaker:Oslowe: that twilight, well, the time of day, not the IP, that autumnal vibe.
Speaker:Oslowe: I can honestly think of little better than that little piece of nasty Mississippi back road,
Speaker:Oslowe: like just brilliant iconography that is Sinners from Ryan Kruger.
Speaker:Oslowe: But if you want something more Halloween-themed,
Speaker:Oslowe: Go for one of the anthologies. There's a lot of anthologies that are set on
Speaker:Oslowe: or around Halloween, and you can usually find stuff for everybody.
Speaker:Oslowe: Tales of Halloween is a pretty fun one. Trick or Treat is much beloved and kind of a cult classic now.
Speaker:Oslowe: The two films that preceded Terrifier were both anthology Halloween films from
Speaker:Oslowe: What's-His-Name, but I don't recommend those.
Speaker:Oslowe: yeah just go with your heart look at the boxes in the video store and oh wait that's really hard to.
Speaker:Ashley: Do now isn't it yeah try your local library sometimes they have they have DVDs
Speaker:Ashley: I don't know how much of the horror selection they have in mind but,
Speaker:Ashley: yeah you know what they need for that it's worth looking it
Speaker:Ashley: is the only thing the libraries need and not I would never advocate for like
Speaker:Ashley: a coffee shop or anything that you have to pay for at the library but a little
Speaker:Ashley: a little stand of movie snacks like when you go to a blockbuster you get the
Speaker:Ashley: the bunch of crunch and the snow caps some box.
Speaker:Oslowe: Of gummy bears or whatever yeah.
Speaker:Ashley: Bucket yeah yeah but yeah movies libraries always
Speaker:Ashley: have almost always in my experience have had dvds maybe
Speaker:Ashley: they got some good horror ones in there um a
Speaker:Ashley: couple that i watched recently the most recent horror movie i watched which
Speaker:Ashley: got it's got like a 2.5 on imdb which is already you know it's gonna be great
Speaker:Ashley: um it's called uh strange frequencies taiwan killer hospital it's like a found footage kind of like.
Speaker:Ashley: Mockumentary not mockumentary style it's supposed
Speaker:Ashley: to be like these people are doing a live stream going
Speaker:Ashley: into this extremely haunted hospital where anytime tourists go
Speaker:Ashley: there they get murdered so these this guy
Speaker:Ashley: who is going to be an actor and some other actors and influences are like well
Speaker:Ashley: of course we have to go there and hilarity ensues um i think it's on like netflix
Speaker:Ashley: or hulu or something um it was a lot of fun if you like like a it would like
Speaker:Ashley: some of the visuals really intense.
Speaker:Ashley: I thought it was it was a fun watch um and
Speaker:Ashley: then one that i thought was really good that i saw recently even
Speaker:Ashley: though it came out a couple years ago was no one will save you it's
Speaker:Ashley: more of a sci-fi horror film um with uh
Speaker:Ashley: caitlin i don't know is it deaver or dever
Speaker:Ashley: i don't know how to say her name deaver yeah um phenomenal
Speaker:Ashley: and it wasn't i hadn't read anything about it beforehand but
Speaker:Ashley: i didn't really so i didn't realize until like 15 minutes
Speaker:Ashley: in i'm like oh there's like no dialogue in this movie but you don't need
Speaker:Ashley: it it just it you are just in
Speaker:Ashley: it from the moment it starts and it's very it's really
Speaker:Ashley: atmospheric um kind of surreal
Speaker:Ashley: and the action pops off in such a way that
Speaker:Ashley: like you're it's tense right from the start so if you want something a
Speaker:Ashley: little more psychological and weird and then with the sci-fi element i would
Speaker:Ashley: go with that but those are the two ones aside from sinners because obviously
Speaker:Ashley: that's in my mind that's like the that's like the most recent like really really
Speaker:Ashley: freaking good horror movie that i've seen yeah absolutely um yeah since.
Speaker:Evan: We are here to talk about a nightmare on elm street being that this is now you
Speaker:Evan: know it's came out many many a year ago,
Speaker:Evan: i'm curious either of your sort of um memories of
Speaker:Evan: this film i don't know i mean this came out when i was just a
Speaker:Evan: two-year-old so i didn't see it until i was you know
Speaker:Evan: maybe like eight or nine you know as a child of seeing inappropriate movies
Speaker:Evan: and inappropriate times but i'm wondering sort of how or maybe not just how
Speaker:Evan: you like your memories of it too but just sort of how you kind of see it fitting
Speaker:Evan: in sort of the slasher sort of uh you know um these films as part of these long running,
Speaker:Evan: series you know franchises like how it kind of stacks up in there and you know
Speaker:Evan: just your overall impressions of it.
Speaker:Oslowe: I was eight or nine i think when nightmare on elm street came out,
Speaker:Oslowe: And I wasn't going to horror movies at the time.
Speaker:Oslowe: Within four years, three years, I was ready for Halloween.
Speaker:Oslowe: You know, my dad spent like two
Speaker:Oslowe: and a half hours building on my face with liquid latex, all of the scars.
Speaker:Oslowe: And I looked really gross and, you know, borrowed a rugby sweater from the next
Speaker:Oslowe: door neighbor kind of thing that was red and green.
Speaker:Oslowe: And it's a funny movie. It's not actually very funny, though it has some humor.
Speaker:Oslowe: Wes Craven usually does.
Speaker:Oslowe: He was on a real slump. Any of the power and sort of energy that he had shown
Speaker:Oslowe: early in his career with Last House on the Left and then with The Hills Have Eyes,
Speaker:Oslowe: he seemed to have sort of bled out in a bunch of efforts that maybe aren't held in very high esteem.
Speaker:Oslowe: Invitation to Hell and Swamp Thing.
Speaker:Oslowe: But he had had like three or four movies in a row that had all just kind of
Speaker:Oslowe: not really done anything. And I want to say two of them had gone straight to TV.
Speaker:Oslowe: Nightmare on Elm Street had like a $1 million budget. And I want to say that
Speaker:Oslowe: when Bob Shea greenlit it, it was $700,000 budget.
Speaker:Oslowe: So that's a made-for-TV movie, essentially. You had John Saxon,
Speaker:Oslowe: who, you know, working stiff, he was in everything in the 80s,
Speaker:Oslowe: God bless him. None of the kids were stars.
Speaker:Oslowe: And yet with this little nasty sort of supernatural slasher,
Speaker:Oslowe: and was it the first supernatural slasher?
Speaker:Oslowe: Probably not. But it's the one that sunk, like sunk its hooks into the consciousness.
Speaker:Oslowe: And it was the first one to go supernatural of all of the big guys.
Speaker:Oslowe: It was, I think, honestly, that that's part of why we have the slasher cycles that we have.
Speaker:Oslowe: is because of the video boom because
Speaker:Oslowe: we weren't going to see these movies in the theater you know
Speaker:Oslowe: i mean people did obviously they made incredible amounts of
Speaker:Oslowe: money i think that nightmare on elm street after production
Speaker:Oslowe: was finished was over a million dollar budget but it made like
Speaker:Oslowe: 51 back and so
Speaker:Oslowe: you know the house that freddie built as
Speaker:Oslowe: new line has been called ever since um it
Speaker:Oslowe: changed i think i think i think that it did introduce that
Speaker:Oslowe: supernatural edge into the mainstream one of my favorite
Speaker:Oslowe: uh slashers of the sort of 80s cycle
Speaker:Oslowe: is a canadian film called um
Speaker:Oslowe: hello mary lou but it's commonly
Speaker:Oslowe: known as prom night too hello mary lou um but
Speaker:Oslowe: it has nothing to do with prom night but it's a great supernatural slasher with
Speaker:Oslowe: a fantastic lady villain so if you need a need a fun girl to cheer for because
Speaker:Oslowe: she does things like have sex because she wants to and then the bad guys punish
Speaker:Oslowe: her for that it's a fucking great movie seriously check it out.
Speaker:Evan: What about you uh smirk what's your sort of history with this one.
Speaker:Ashley: I if i saw it when i was younger,
Speaker:Ashley: it would have been because like my brother showed it to me or something i don't
Speaker:Ashley: really remember watching this until i was probably in high school or college
Speaker:Ashley: and i can almost guarantee,
Speaker:Ashley: that i didn't watch it sober until like after that watching
Speaker:Ashley: it again the other day i was like okay i definitely remember this
Speaker:Ashley: and i know it because it's just kind of ingrained because it's
Speaker:Ashley: so much part of the zeitgeist it's like you know the story of freddie
Speaker:Ashley: and nightmare on elm street but i was like it was
Speaker:Ashley: kind of it was almost like watching it for the first time the things that
Speaker:Ashley: really stuck out to me because of that supernatural element is how much they
Speaker:Ashley: were able to play with like the special the um practical effects and everything
Speaker:Ashley: like with the the rotating room um and just we'll get into all of it i'm sure but um,
Speaker:Ashley: It just, I like a supernatural slasher, even the crappy ones I can have fun watching.
Speaker:Ashley: So I really, for me, this kind of sets the tone for all the other ones that
Speaker:Ashley: I probably remember a little bit better.
Speaker:Ashley: And I can see where those drew from into the now, which is really cool.
Speaker:Ashley: You know, even if it doesn't all 100% hold up, it's still, it's incredible work,
Speaker:Ashley: especially for the time.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah, I think that like, it's, it's interesting you mentioned you both said supernatural.
Speaker:Evan: like that's how if you see if you go on to wikipedia you
Speaker:Evan: know the obviously the uh only source of information
Speaker:Evan: on movies it calls it a supernatural supernatural slasher
Speaker:Evan: film which i think made it so much
Speaker:Evan: different than some of the other ones you know before it
Speaker:Evan: and you know all of those like the italian ones and
Speaker:Evan: and maybe canadian ones like uh
Speaker:Evan: prom night well prom that but i was also thinking
Speaker:Evan: of um black christmas the
Speaker:Evan: bob clark yes canadian yeah like it's such
Speaker:Evan: a different great film perspective on it where i
Speaker:Evan: think a lot of movies like halloween and the the earlier
Speaker:Evan: slasher kind of precursors to this film
Speaker:Evan: play a lot more on the sort of normal person in your town that could be you
Speaker:Evan: know the killer like you know in black christmas it's this guy stalking a sorority
Speaker:Evan: house and we all know about you know the Friday the 13th series and the you know when.
Speaker:Oslowe: A stranger calls.
Speaker:Evan: And all yeah exactly and I think this one changed that a lot and to me I've
Speaker:Evan: actually was just I was listening to this book on,
Speaker:Evan: Wes Craven, more about Scream. But I didn't realize he had a bunch of degrees, like, in psychology.
Speaker:Evan: And so it really makes a lot of sense that he was able to, like,
Speaker:Evan: dig into a movie about, you know, this subconscious that people are having.
Speaker:Evan: Like, at the heart of it, this is about people who are being killed while they're dreaming.
Speaker:Evan: And so it has that supernatural aspect. So I don't know how,
Speaker:Evan: like, what do you make of the idea that, like, the killer can get us while we're dreaming?
Speaker:Evan: And, like, do you think that's some kind of, like, do you think he meant it
Speaker:Evan: as some kind of metaphor for something deeper or or do you think it's a metaphor
Speaker:Evan: for something deeper whether Wes Craven.
Speaker:Oslowe: Absolutely a hundred
Speaker:Oslowe: percent Wes Craven never made a movie that was just about
Speaker:Oslowe: what the movie was about of course and I think he'd be the first he'd
Speaker:Oslowe: be the first filmmaker to say that there are definitely filmmakers who
Speaker:Oslowe: would say no I made the movie you decide what it's about and I respect that
Speaker:Oslowe: but Craven was not one of them Craven loved to talk about well why did we do
Speaker:Oslowe: this you know and And I actually think that he was touching on a lot of the
Speaker:Oslowe: same themes in Nightmare on Elm Street that he would explore much more effectively,
Speaker:Oslowe: in my opinion, in People Under the Stairs.
Speaker:Oslowe: I think he starts to deal with Reagan America as early as Nightmare on Elm Street.
Speaker:Oslowe: And one could even argue that The Hills Have Eyes touches a little bit into
Speaker:Oslowe: Reagan's California, but that's a different episode.
Speaker:Oslowe: No, I think I think that Nightmare on Elm Street is partially so iconic because Freddy cheats.
Speaker:Oslowe: He gets you in your dreams. That's not fair.
Speaker:Oslowe: Fuck that. That's when I'm asleep, you know. And and in some of the later films,
Speaker:Oslowe: they really play with that.
Speaker:Oslowe: We're like, hey, I'm supposed to win. It's my dream.
Speaker:Oslowe: I'm the good guy. And it's like, oh, sorry, pal. Those rules don't apply here.
Speaker:Oslowe: This is nightmare world. And that freedom for the filmmakers,
Speaker:Oslowe: I think, is why Freddy is so beloved when he's only in a couple of good movies
Speaker:Oslowe: and then some really not good ones.
Speaker:Oslowe: Like, you know, he's he's his his output is not very high, but he is probably
Speaker:Oslowe: one of the most beloved of the slasher icons.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah. And one thing, since you mentioned Reagan and this is being came out in
Speaker:Evan: 1984, one of the things that he did say about the film was that it's something,
Speaker:Evan: you know, the the underlying sort of plot of this is Freddie is going after
Speaker:Evan: these children because of what their parents had done in the past, the sins of the parents.
Speaker:Evan: And when you said Reagan, it almost makes me think of people who are,
Speaker:Evan: you know, growing up in the 80s like I did are dealing with the sins of the
Speaker:Evan: parents, you know, in society.
Speaker:Evan: Like we have to deal with the shit that we have to deal with in the 80s and
Speaker:Evan: 90s and progressively getting worse because of the sins of our all of our collective
Speaker:Evan: sort of parents. because.
Speaker:Oslowe: Of what the the boomers and the silent generation etc the world they had built
Speaker:Oslowe: is the one that we ended up in it's uh yeah no i totally hear you agree.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah and you could go even further and say like you know they kind
Speaker:Evan: of live in this waking dream thinking like oh yeah things are you know great
Speaker:Evan: and cool you know like yeah like i you know you bought a house for you know
Speaker:Evan: ten thousand dollars you know now ten thousand dollars will buy you like a you
Speaker:Evan: know a pint of ice cream and a you know six pack of beer so you know yeah.
Speaker:Ashley: It's.
Speaker:Oslowe: Not even good beer.
Speaker:Ashley: And their houses too like okay so there's a pretty clear delineation uh between the,
Speaker:Ashley: the two couples the two couples in the
Speaker:Ashley: movie um glenn and nancy and
Speaker:Ashley: then tina and what's his name the other one
Speaker:Ashley: i forget him because he's like rod rod thank
Speaker:Ashley: you um tina clearly you
Speaker:Ashley: know her mother is like when she's around she
Speaker:Ashley: has some guy over and then she's just gone like we never see
Speaker:Ashley: her again for the rest of the movie she doesn't seem to be very present um
Speaker:Ashley: just barely involved in her kid's life the house is
Speaker:Ashley: not like totally crappy but then in juxtaposition to
Speaker:Ashley: where nancy lives her parents are divorced her
Speaker:Ashley: mom is like apparently a secret drunk which you
Speaker:Ashley: don't like i didn't realize that until like
Speaker:Ashley: later on in the movie when she's like standing she's like
Speaker:Ashley: pulls a bottle out and starts drinking it like in the hallway and
Speaker:Ashley: then across the street where glenn lives
Speaker:Ashley: is like immaculate and yeah these people are doing
Speaker:Ashley: super well like even though there's a killer stalking
Speaker:Ashley: their children like their main concerns are like for for tina's
Speaker:Ashley: mom's just going away the rod's parents i don't
Speaker:Ashley: know maybe they don't exist we literally never see them he has like a crappy
Speaker:Ashley: history they write him off as like a no good kid and then yes yes he is yeah
Speaker:Ashley: he's got the jacket and everything he's very he's completely he's that type
Speaker:Ashley: yeah and then the other kids the And Glenn, his mom.
Speaker:Ashley: She seems to be very involved, but she also just like, she has no idea what
Speaker:Ashley: the hell is actually happening.
Speaker:Ashley: He never tells his parents that he's going to get killed in his sleep,
Speaker:Ashley: which is crazy to me how little people communicate this, but people don't talk to their parents.
Speaker:Ashley: So I guess that's realistic. he.
Speaker:Evan: Does tell his parents he's gonna watch like the what the nude you know uh what does.
Speaker:Ashley: He say like the the nude miss america yeah miss nude america because she's like
Speaker:Ashley: she's like how can you watch tv and listen to your records at the same time
Speaker:Ashley: he's like well not listening to the tv,
Speaker:Ashley: Miss Noon America is going to go on. She's like, well, you won't be able to
Speaker:Ashley: hear her. And he's like, who cares what she says?
Speaker:Oslowe: Oh, oh, oh.
Speaker:Ashley: Yeah.
Speaker:Oslowe: Train the men.
Speaker:Ashley: And then his dad.
Speaker:Oslowe: Was it ad-readed by Johnny Depp?
Speaker:Ashley: It's actually, it ages really well when he says at one point,
Speaker:Ashley: well, who would want to kill me? Like, I don't know.
Speaker:Ashley: But yeah, these kids, their parents are not present. And even when they're trying
Speaker:Ashley: to be, they just miss, even when the kids are telling them exactly what's going
Speaker:Ashley: on, they're just, they're missing the mark completely.
Speaker:Ashley: They're just, they're completely useless. So the kids are really just left to
Speaker:Ashley: pick up the pieces of what their parents have completely fucked up.
Speaker:Evan: I mean, Nancy basically has to do the job of her parents and sort of the police
Speaker:Evan: and, you know, getting to school.
Speaker:Evan: Her mom's not taking care of her really at all. I mean, she makes her take a
Speaker:Evan: bath, but she almost drowns in there.
Speaker:Evan: She's not, I mean, I mean, to be fair, she fell asleep for, for a hot second
Speaker:Evan: and, you know, Freddie almost had her.
Speaker:Evan: And maybe my favorite shot of the entire movie is the, the hand out of the bathtub.
Speaker:Evan: I don't know where I was going with that exactly. Other than just,
Speaker:Evan: I think that the, as you said, like Oslo, like Craven isn't intent,
Speaker:Evan: unintentionally making any of these, these choices.
Speaker:Evan: and a lot of the film too
Speaker:Evan: this is more it's like there's a lot of autobiographical elements
Speaker:Evan: like he named the character kruger because
Speaker:Evan: of a kid who had bullied him as a child and uh
Speaker:Evan: he you know didn't have
Speaker:Evan: the best childhood his dad left him at a very young age as well
Speaker:Evan: and so it seems like he's putting himself into this film more than maybe any
Speaker:Evan: of his others i don't well i guess maybe some of his early work you know he'll
Speaker:Evan: suffice maybe but i don't know what you make of that like how he puts himself
Speaker:Evan: into this and if there's you know anything else to it.
Speaker:Oslowe: I mean i don't know about self-insert i haven't
Speaker:Oslowe: honestly read that much about wes's early life uh until he was working doing
Speaker:Oslowe: edits in new york that's kind of when i pick up the trail i know that he was
Speaker:Oslowe: inspired after reading several accounts in the newspaper about,
Speaker:Oslowe: I believe it was some Hmong refugees,
Speaker:Oslowe: men between the age of like 18 and 50.
Speaker:Oslowe: And there were a lot of refugees from Cambodia and Laos in that particular period
Speaker:Oslowe: in time for some reason. You could say.
Speaker:Oslowe: Some of them didn't want to sleep because the nightmares were so bad.
Speaker:Oslowe: And then according to Wes Craven, in the articles that he sort of pieced together,
Speaker:Oslowe: wait a second, and some of these guys died in their sleep.
Speaker:Oslowe: And I think it's even referred to as like, and please forgive me,
Speaker:Oslowe: but it's like Asian death syndrome or something like that, where you're like, wow, interesting.
Speaker:Oslowe: But I mean, refugees who had been through some shit died mysteriously.
Speaker:Oslowe: I don't think it is that mysterious for us to fail.
Speaker:Oslowe: I think that our hearts and our minds can only take so much trauma.
Speaker:Oslowe: But that's just my own personal, you know, I think that death is a terrible inevitability.
Speaker:Oslowe: But he was just hooked. And I think particularly, he said it was something about
Speaker:Oslowe: finding out that one of these guys who didn't want to sleep had kept a coffee
Speaker:Oslowe: pot in his closet that his parents didn't know.
Speaker:Oslowe: And and of course Evan you sent me a message the other night like how did her
Speaker:Oslowe: mom not smell the coffee and I'm like because she was drunk,
Speaker:Oslowe: because she was drunk off the secret vodka that she keeps in the linen closet
Speaker:Oslowe: yeah which is different than the bottle that she drops earlier in the movie well that's.
Speaker:Evan: Why she needed the closet vodka right she needed you know.
Speaker:Oslowe: It's funny because like Ronnie Blakeney I've seen her in other things who played
Speaker:Oslowe: the mom and I don't think she's a bad actor but either She and Wes did not agree on what they wanted Mrs.
Speaker:Oslowe: Thompson to be performing like.
Speaker:Oslowe: I mean, I feel like there was a disconnect because every time I've watched this
Speaker:Oslowe: movie since I was a kid, her performance has always hit me as just wrong.
Speaker:Ashley: You know what it reads to me as
Speaker:Ashley: is like somewhat evil, like soap opera matriarch. The way she carried it.
Speaker:Oslowe: Yeah.
Speaker:Ashley: And she's not, because I looked her up, because I was like, I have to know,
Speaker:Ashley: like, where she, like, how she trained, like, what other things she's,
Speaker:Ashley: she did, like, a lot of movies.
Speaker:Evan: Nashville.
Speaker:Ashley: Yeah. But the way that she, like, frames herself in some of these shots,
Speaker:Ashley: I forget what it is that Nancy sang to her, but she looks like that she gives
Speaker:Ashley: the three-quarter profile to the camera, and she's talking to Nancy,
Speaker:Ashley: but she's looking over here.
Speaker:Ashley: It's just a very, like, specific style of acting that is completely different
Speaker:Ashley: from anybody else in the movie. Thank you. And it sticks with you. Yeah.
Speaker:Oslowe: Helps me feel less crazy.
Speaker:Evan: That makes a lot of sense.
Speaker:Ashley: No, you're absolutely right.
Speaker:Evan: Because in a way, I don't want to call this like a, I mean, when I say cheap,
Speaker:Evan: I mean like literally it was made for cheap.
Speaker:Evan: They had to scrape together, you know, what's his name? Bob Shea.
Speaker:Evan: Like I had to scrape together the money to get this to be made.
Speaker:Evan: But like in a way, it's almost like.
Speaker:Evan: For me, it's almost like Wes Craven was focusing more on Nancy and I think like
Speaker:Evan: Freddy Krueger and the kind of the the vibe of the movie and probably just kind
Speaker:Evan: of like let her do what she wanted to do.
Speaker:Evan: That's the only explanation I can have, because you can keep and get people to act.
Speaker:Oslowe: I mean, I I suspect that that she was probably at the time one of the bigger names in the movie.
Speaker:Evan: And John Saxon.
Speaker:Oslowe: Yeah, so how much—well, I mean, John Saxon had transferred almost entirely to
Speaker:Oslowe: either starring in Italian films or supporting role in American films.
Speaker:Oslowe: I don't think he was under a lot of pretense as to what his career was by the 80s, you know?
Speaker:Oslowe: I mean, he seems like a solid guy who knew what he was getting called on to do.
Speaker:Oslowe: He was either eat people for the Italians or be a sad dad, you know?
Speaker:Evan: Speaking of, he was also in Black Christmas, which we mentioned.
Speaker:Oslowe: Yes, he was. And Joe Unger, who plays Sergeant Garcia, the night sergeant who
Speaker:Oslowe: won't let Heather Lagenkamp in to see Rod.
Speaker:Oslowe: Joe Unger went on to play one of the Texas Chainsaw family in Leatherface,
Speaker:Oslowe: the Texas Chainsaw Massacre Part 3.
Speaker:Oslowe: There's always someone in the backgrounds in a Wes Craven film who does something
Speaker:Oslowe: else. But, I mean, I don't think Ronnie Blakely's bad.
Speaker:Oslowe: But, yeah, I think, like you said, it's like she's almost doing like a TV arch
Speaker:Oslowe: kind of performance, especially when she reveals the backstory.
Speaker:Ashley: Yes.
Speaker:Oslowe: And that backstory is a fucking doozy. I am allowed to curse on this, right?
Speaker:Evan: Oh, please. If you didn't curse on it, I'd have to cut it.
Speaker:Oslowe: I think that that backstory transcends most slasher films.
Speaker:Oslowe: because it makes you go wait so hold
Speaker:Oslowe: on is he getting like a just revenge from beyond the grave i mean i know that
Speaker:Oslowe: we're given this whole oh and there was bad evidence so it was thrown out but
Speaker:Oslowe: she's so awkward in that scene i never believed her i always sat there going.
Speaker:Ashley: She's lying i think that's sort of ambiguity yeah that.
Speaker:Oslowe: That that's a me problem you know.
Speaker:Ashley: No there is there is a layer of ambiguity to it because you can't trust
Speaker:Ashley: her because she's a she's a drunk and she hasn't told i mean and and listen
Speaker:Ashley: it's she's not the most reliable person to relay this story so it's understandable
Speaker:Ashley: that you're not going to necessarily she shouldn't be and she and it's understandable
Speaker:Ashley: that you're not going to be able to trust her um i think that layer of it,
Speaker:Ashley: makes it even more scary because you don't know exactly like
Speaker:Ashley: you were saying like if it's justified or not like later on i
Speaker:Ashley: think i think in some of the other i was reading about
Speaker:Ashley: it a little bit like it's supposed to be the thing the reason
Speaker:Ashley: that it got thrown out was because somebody didn't
Speaker:Ashley: she said somebody didn't sign a search warrant or something right when they
Speaker:Ashley: found him doing something to a kid or whatever and i just like i know obviously
Speaker:Ashley: cops are incompetent or they're really good at being bad at their jobs which
Speaker:Ashley: is kind of like you know six of one but it just,
Speaker:Ashley: i think you are supposed to on some level wonder if maybe maybe they got the
Speaker:Ashley: wrong guy or something that was
Speaker:Ashley: always the impression that i feel like people had every now and again i.
Speaker:Oslowe: Think it's the most intriguing thing about the original film and it is pretty
Speaker:Oslowe: much just thrown out in every sequel the remake does actually bring that back
Speaker:Oslowe: to the foreground and i appreciate the remake for that i know it gets a lot
Speaker:Oslowe: of hate but and i don't think it's a good movie.
Speaker:Ashley: But i.
Speaker:Oslowe: Do think it was trying to do something interesting with the backstory which
Speaker:Oslowe: in 1984 obviously we get a kind of, you understand in the audience, you adults,
Speaker:Oslowe: we know what they're insinuating,
Speaker:Oslowe: this sort of heavy feeling that perhaps this Kruger gentleman was interested
Speaker:Oslowe: in children in a way that is unwholesome.
Speaker:Ashley: And...
Speaker:Oslowe: I mean, yeah, no shit. He has a glove with knives on it. But was that before? Was that after?
Speaker:Oslowe: And that lack of certainty in the original film,
Speaker:Oslowe: that kind of vague, it almost calls up some of those Hammer films,
Speaker:Oslowe: where a just ghoul would sort of return from the grave and carry out righteous
Speaker:Oslowe: vengeance on the living.
Speaker:Oslowe: And I do think about that because, of course, Robert Englund wasn't the first choice to play Freddy.
Speaker:Oslowe: They had hired David Warner, the great fucking British character actor.
Speaker:Oslowe: David Warner had done screen tests,
Speaker:Oslowe: but then his schedule wouldn't let it happen. So they had to let him go.
Speaker:Oslowe: And so then they went and they got Robert Englund, who obviously was like,
Speaker:Oslowe: I'm going to play him like a weasel. I'm going to play him like a ferret.
Speaker:Oslowe: I'm going to play him like a molester. You know, he wanted to play.
Speaker:Oslowe: He understood that was what Wes was writing.
Speaker:Oslowe: And I think that's why Freddie is as scary as he is genuinely scary in the film,
Speaker:Oslowe: because the sadism is on full display. Like from the first fucking nightmare, he is playing with Tina.
Speaker:Oslowe: And he's just rule. Jason, like, whack, you know, leather face, whack.
Speaker:Evan: Michael Myers.
Speaker:Ashley: This guy. Yeah.
Speaker:Oslowe: This guy. Michael Myers.
Speaker:Ashley: Stab.
Speaker:Oslowe: This guy, though. Get him and Pinhead together from Hellraiser.
Speaker:Evan: As you were talking about that, it just made me think, too, just the idea that
Speaker:Evan: the killer is a potential former, you know,
Speaker:Evan: molester and murderer of children is such a scary proposition in a movie in
Speaker:Evan: the 1980s just on its face.
Speaker:Evan: I just like to think about that. That's crazy. and then
Speaker:Evan: but like i think about a movie like you know halloween and i
Speaker:Evan: and you know some analysis on it would say it's about kind of like the fear
Speaker:Evan: of the white suburbia like you're safe but now there's this guy who's coming
Speaker:Evan: and killing you whereas in this it sort of brings in that aspect of like these
Speaker:Evan: people live in a fairly you know nice suburb and things are as things are okay but.
Speaker:Oslowe: At what cost.
Speaker:Evan: Right exactly exactly because.
Speaker:Oslowe: Because there was an aberrant thing in the neighborhood, and mommy took care of it.
Speaker:Oslowe: It is a movie about the sins of the parents being visited upon the child,
Speaker:Oslowe: literally, in this case.
Speaker:Oslowe: Honestly, I'm sorry that we didn't get something with Glenn's parents connecting
Speaker:Oslowe: them to what had happened.
Speaker:Oslowe: You know, that we didn't see more from the adults, sort of this,
Speaker:Oslowe: hey, Mitch, yeah, how's it going? You know, this shared secret.
Speaker:Oslowe: But it was a $700,000 quickie.
Speaker:Oslowe: It was a made-for-TV thriller that they threw a lot of money into the blood
Speaker:Oslowe: because why not? Yeah. It worked.
Speaker:Ashley: It did. It really comes in rock.
Speaker:Evan: Let me ask you both another thing. This is this kind of maybe I only ask this
Speaker:Evan: because I just saw Scream and I think I mentioned I was reading a listening
Speaker:Evan: to this book about the the Scream and it's sort of, you know,
Speaker:Evan: impact on like the 90s horror, you know, era.
Speaker:Evan: But in that movie, it's famous for the fact that like the Drew Barrymore character
Speaker:Evan: is spoiler killed in the very first opening long scene.
Speaker:Evan: and you could also argue that in this movie one
Speaker:Evan: of the quote-unquote main characters is killed pretty abruptly
Speaker:Evan: and early on in the movie which i think almost set
Speaker:Evan: the table for something like scream later on also obviously a wes craven film
Speaker:Evan: whereas typically you don't see that early on in a movie like the early kill
Speaker:Evan: and if it is it's something like the backstory like you know mike myers like
Speaker:Evan: why does he do what he does because he killed his sister when he was a little
Speaker:Evan: kid and he flipped any, you know, flipped out.
Speaker:Evan: Whereas in this it's kind of a like what do I call it? Sort of like like starts that,
Speaker:Evan: trend i don't know.
Speaker:Oslowe: It's it's an outlier
Speaker:Oslowe: from the norm in that it does
Speaker:Oslowe: play with giving us a chance
Speaker:Oslowe: to get to know tina before nancy even
Speaker:Oslowe: shows up and tina's blonde she's it's
Speaker:Oslowe: amanda vice who was very very pretty and personable
Speaker:Oslowe: and just easy to like and so you go oh that's that's your buffy that's your
Speaker:Oslowe: girl that's that's the girl right and there's her friend with the frizzy hair
Speaker:Oslowe: you know if if this movie wasn't a classic you know when when you guys grew up it wasn't already,
Speaker:Oslowe: set those tropes they he was playing with them the same way that he wouldn't
Speaker:Oslowe: scream it's just that with scream by then we were sort of going oh okay okay
Speaker:Oslowe: with nightmare on elm street though the tropes were still fresh i mean what
Speaker:Oslowe: psycho was only 20 years earlier yeah 67.
Speaker:Ashley: Yeah i was gonna i was gonna say because he really i mean he shocked a hell
Speaker:Ashley: out of people with that with you know within the first.
Speaker:Oslowe: I mean a little bit of the film yeah yeah you can't beat that that rug getting you can argue that.
Speaker:Evan: Might also be one of the reasons why the film did so well you know in the box
Speaker:Evan: offices like these kind of movies where you see it and you're like oh i can't
Speaker:Evan: believe like that you're not going to believe what they do.
Speaker:Oslowe: You have to see it.
Speaker:Evan: Just like Scream was supposed to be a bomb, and then all of a sudden it took
Speaker:Evan: off. I think this is one of those same cases.
Speaker:Oslowe: Everybody was talking about Scream when that movie came out.
Speaker:Oslowe: People are like, oh, yeah, that's really good. And you're just like,
Speaker:Oslowe: okay, shit, I better go see it. Yeah, no.
Speaker:Oslowe: But Nightmare on Elm Street, I mean, I don't know if anyone could have even dreamed,
Speaker:Oslowe: freddie would take on what he would you know that there there was a 1-800 line
Speaker:Oslowe: where you could call to have robert england's voice tell you a scary story,
Speaker:Oslowe: like that was a thing you know
Speaker:Oslowe: there was a kid and that was his make a wish he's dying of leukemia i want to
Speaker:Oslowe: meet freddie krueger i don't want to meet robert england i want to meet freddie
Speaker:Oslowe: krueger the child yeah but he's funny you know he's he's a funny guy he would
Speaker:Oslowe: have had a podcast i think what's.
Speaker:Evan: Even scarier is the uh i saw why they chose his green and red sweater and apparently
Speaker:Evan: craven had looked up that it.
Speaker:Oslowe: Was like the.
Speaker:Evan: Colors that would mess with your head the most like you know like the dress the.
Speaker:Oslowe: Right the.
Speaker:Evan: White you know the what color is this dress like it's kind of the same thing
Speaker:Evan: and it just messes with people but it's like the most iconic aspect of like
Speaker:Evan: really i mean that and like.
Speaker:Oslowe: Christmas that too red and green he's like yeah I read a thing where this guy
Speaker:Oslowe: talked about how red and green if they're close together that makes people uncomfortable
Speaker:Oslowe: it's like it just makes me think of Christmas I don't know what you're thinking about Wes like,
Speaker:Oslowe: he was like so into this yeah red and green oh we're all kind of going,
Speaker:Oslowe: I
Speaker:Evan: Think arguably if you were to ask people just randomly like what the first person
Speaker:Evan: that comes their mind when they think of like a slasher killer i gotta think
Speaker:Evan: that freight kreuger is numero uno on that list oh.
Speaker:Oslowe: You think jason i think jason i think jason wins i.
Speaker:Ashley: Do michael myers is up there too i think yeah.
Speaker:Oslowe: I mean look mike's the og nothing but
Speaker:Oslowe: respect but i really feel like jason
Speaker:Oslowe: has a lasting ability that none of the other slashes have really had um and
Speaker:Oslowe: freddie probably comes the closest to and which is why we got the really not
Speaker:Oslowe: great film with both of them but it is fun but not good it is fun but it's not good.
Speaker:Evan: There aren't that many kills you know like i think of like a lot of slashes like there's lots.
Speaker:Oslowe: Of killing.
Speaker:Evan: You know and this there isn't really a lot of killing yeah three johnny depp.
Speaker:Oslowe: It's a small body count and the mom i guess the mom yeah.
Speaker:Evan: Three kids and then the mom later and then um but of the of them what would
Speaker:Evan: be your i know maybe this is a for the end of the episode but what's your what
Speaker:Evan: do you think the best one of them is.
Speaker:Ashley: I think it's got to be Glenn. I think the blood fountain going up into the ceiling
Speaker:Ashley: is just, we don't see, because we don't really see what happened in his dream.
Speaker:Ashley: They never take us inside of his head, which is fine.
Speaker:Ashley: I don't think there's much going on in there anyway, but he just doesn't get that impression.
Speaker:Ashley: Yeah. I don't want to see what's happening there, but the effects and the,
Speaker:Ashley: just the visual impact of that.
Speaker:Ashley: And then his mom, like finally, finally there's an adult in the room who sees this absolute,
Speaker:Ashley: fat shit insanity but then still somehow i don't know do they just think she's
Speaker:Ashley: hysterical that's i don't know we can get into that later why that doesn't result
Speaker:Ashley: in them yeah specifically.
Speaker:Evan: But what about you ozl what's your.
Speaker:Ashley: Yeah.
Speaker:Oslowe: I mean honestly like glenn's is
Speaker:Oslowe: iconic for a reason i mean you know crib
Speaker:Oslowe: from sam ramey and have a couple gallons of blood yes
Speaker:Oslowe: but tina's death has real
Speaker:Oslowe: impact um for me like i
Speaker:Oslowe: think that the genuine terror of
Speaker:Oslowe: that sequence you know for both her
Speaker:Oslowe: and rod that's a that it's a
Speaker:Oslowe: really good scene um where she's being dragged
Speaker:Oslowe: up the wall and and and it's played completely straight and it is scary and
Speaker:Oslowe: tense glenn's death to me has always kind of felt slapsticky i love it but it's
Speaker:Oslowe: slapstick and so tina's tina's demise for me is is the better,
Speaker:Oslowe: uh sequence because i just think there's a lot more going on i.
Speaker:Ashley: Mean the way they shot that is really crazy too like they had they made like
Speaker:Ashley: a rotating room and everything for it like yeah.
Speaker:Oslowe: They use it for both scenes it's both tina's sliding along the ceiling and glenn
Speaker:Oslowe: gets pulled through the bed it was the same the same thing and they just redressed it.
Speaker:Ashley: See that yeah and that That makes sense. Do you happen to know if that particular
Speaker:Ashley: high school set has been used in a bunch of other...
Speaker:Ashley: movies because it looks like three that i can think of off the top.
Speaker:Oslowe: Of my head like i know that but i am
Speaker:Oslowe: almost positive that if we look it up it'll be
Speaker:Oslowe: the one that's in the valley that was also used on buffy it was also used in
Speaker:Oslowe: strange behavior disturbing behavior it was also used like yeah like there's
Speaker:Oslowe: a couple local la uh buildings that get reutilized a lot and i think that might
Speaker:Oslowe: be what you think it is yeah.
Speaker:Evan: A note that i thought that was crazy this is kind of
Speaker:Evan: related to it so the they found the place that they used
Speaker:Evan: to film like the boiler room scenes was in the basement of
Speaker:Evan: a jail and a year after they filmed it
Speaker:Evan: apparently the jail was shut down and the
Speaker:Evan: partly because the boiler room just had like asbestos everywhere so apparently
Speaker:Evan: they you know were just in there breathing asbestos for however many days oh
Speaker:Evan: no not good but i think you're right about the school i didn't see a note about
Speaker:Evan: it but to me i think it's i think it's called i think they also filmed um grease
Speaker:Evan: they're pretty in pink it.
Speaker:Ashley: Reminded me of grease yeah grease was the first one i thought of i was thinking maybe buffy um.
Speaker:Evan: Just like the most perfect iconic with.
Speaker:Ashley: The big arch yeah like this is what a high school looks like yeah.
Speaker:Oslowe: In southern california.
Speaker:Ashley: Yeah no i work in a high school they do not look like that.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah i think the the so the um
Speaker:Evan: so to bring it back like to the mother and some of
Speaker:Evan: the other like well there's two things and maybe they're kind of related
Speaker:Evan: because you mentioned sort of the mother being hysterical and this is kind of
Speaker:Evan: a trope in a lot of horror films and especially with nancy and her parents sort
Speaker:Evan: of not believing her you know what's going on in her life and her mom takes
Speaker:Evan: her to that like sleep center and they do the you know strap her up and the whole thing oh.
Speaker:Oslowe: Yeah with charles fleischer as.
Speaker:Evan: It reminds me a lot of like the exorcist when they're doing like lots
Speaker:Evan: of tests on the little girl but to me it plays on the trope of sort of like
Speaker:Evan: the historical the historical the hysterical not the historical the historically
Speaker:Evan: hysterical you know woman or girl where you know nothing she says can be trusted
Speaker:Evan: when it's ironically like the mother who can't be trusted in any sense when
Speaker:Evan: we should be trusting the.
Speaker:Oslowe: Grown-ups don't believe.
Speaker:Evan: You yeah.
Speaker:Oslowe: The grownups don't believe you. And that's the big fear, too.
Speaker:Oslowe: It's both the truism of a teenager. They don't fucking understand.
Speaker:Oslowe: But it's also the fear. They're not going to listen when it matters, right?
Speaker:Oslowe: I know that was a big, big one for me. Oh, yeah.
Speaker:Oslowe: Yeah, no, actually, I love the sleep center sequence, and I'm glad you brought
Speaker:Oslowe: that up, partially because I love Charles Flesher, who plays the doctor,
Speaker:Oslowe: and of course, he was the voice of the crypt keeper for Tales from the Crypt,
Speaker:Oslowe: and is very memorable from Zodiac as the man who has a basement. I do.
Speaker:Oslowe: And also, Tales from the Crypt presents Demon Knight, where he played Wally,
Speaker:Oslowe: the friendly mailman. That's a terrific one.
Speaker:Oslowe: But, Smirk, you were starting to say something that I interrupted you, and I'm sorry.
Speaker:Ashley: It couldn't have been that important because I don't remember what it was.
Speaker:Oslowe: I like that you brought up, though, The Exorcist, which, without question,
Speaker:Oslowe: one of the most important horror films of the 70s.
Speaker:Oslowe: And so Craven would have been very aware of the fact that he was treading on
Speaker:Oslowe: some well-trod ground doing that sequence.
Speaker:Oslowe: But I think it adds to the importance of that sort of central conceit of these
Speaker:Oslowe: kids kind of are on their own.
Speaker:Oslowe: And more than in a lot of other slasher films where there really is that whole
Speaker:Oslowe: sort of lifeline of an adult, you know, of a cop, of a counselor,
Speaker:Oslowe: of whatever, Nancy's on her own.
Speaker:Oslowe: And and she's such a fucking great final girl.
Speaker:Oslowe: Like, I'm sorry, Laurie Strode, but Nancy Thompson is pretty dope.
Speaker:Ashley: Yeah, because she just she figures it out with every piece of information she has so quickly.
Speaker:Ashley: Like, she's the only one putting pieces together.
Speaker:Ashley: She's the only one that's actually like making like in the beginning,
Speaker:Ashley: Tina is kind of interested in hearing if other people have had bad dreams.
Speaker:Ashley: so she doesn't get to live long enough to pursue this really the
Speaker:Ashley: fact that none of these kids are like of course the boys don't talk to each
Speaker:Ashley: other about it because feelings boys can have nightmares too but
Speaker:Ashley: but yeah i'm just i'm not going to talk about it because it's fine it's
Speaker:Ashley: whatever i'm a man um but then the thing
Speaker:Ashley: that struck like the thing that bugs me is the
Speaker:Ashley: fact that even after his mother
Speaker:Ashley: sees the fountain of blood and he's like
Speaker:Ashley: suddenly for like three seconds it's
Speaker:Ashley: the bed that eats and he just gets like sucked into there he
Speaker:Ashley: just all this happens is mom sees it and i'm only
Speaker:Ashley: assuming that they think she's hysterical because nancy's dad
Speaker:Ashley: is there a second leader the cops show up and and they're just like i don't
Speaker:Ashley: know what happened this is the craziest shit i've ever seen and then as he talks
Speaker:Ashley: to his daughter and she's like i know what happened actually and i'm gonna catch
Speaker:Ashley: the guy come on over and he has like fucking gomer over there just staring at
Speaker:Ashley: the house and not and not being of any help.
Speaker:Ashley: So like, yeah, they didn't think the parents would listen. They were absolutely fucking right.
Speaker:Ashley: They didn't. They were completely useless the entire time.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah. Yeah. Like in a lot of those other films, there is a cop or someone investigating
Speaker:Evan: that does seem to have an investment.
Speaker:Evan: Like his same character in Black Christmas, he has an investment in trying to help them.
Speaker:Evan: Where in this, he doesn't have that investment into helping them.
Speaker:Evan: And I think it's, you said Asla before, it's like the kids are literally on
Speaker:Evan: their, or maybe you both said, like they just are on their own.
Speaker:Evan: They don't have anyone to help them. and which.
Speaker:Ashley: Is insane because it's what it's his daughter's friends three of his daughter's
Speaker:Ashley: friends have been killed within the space of a couple of days and he's.
Speaker:Evan: Like i.
Speaker:Ashley: Don't i don't know go.
Speaker:Oslowe: Go go lay down honey geez.
Speaker:Ashley: And also does she never like visit with her her dad because he's only there
Speaker:Ashley: like after after somebody gets killed is when when she sees him or like when he he follows she.
Speaker:Oslowe: Stays with zombie mom all.
Speaker:Evan: The time.
Speaker:Ashley: All the time drunk mom who's like never there their parents are divorced and
Speaker:Ashley: he's like well you're the woman you take care of the kid even though you're clearly wasted he's.
Speaker:Oslowe: Always at the office.
Speaker:Evan: Something that maybe does relates also to the mom and
Speaker:Evan: i don't know how another sort of metaphor to i
Speaker:Evan: guess also just kind of like one of those mcguffin type of situations when
Speaker:Evan: nancy comes home and the mom had put bars on all the windows and
Speaker:Evan: like change the lock on the front door and it's like locking it from
Speaker:Evan: the inside like where you can't you know leave the house and
Speaker:Evan: she's drunk and you can't find the key and all and all that it's it's like this
Speaker:Evan: extra layer of you know that like white suburbia we need to have keys and locks
Speaker:Evan: on our door it's almost like she's more afraid exurbia is she trying to prevent
Speaker:Evan: nancy from leaving or is she trying to prevent someone from coming inside and.
Speaker:Oslowe: Is it the same thing.
Speaker:Evan: For her.
Speaker:Oslowe: And yeah no it's it's it's really good because it's really fraught and especially
Speaker:Oslowe: for the middle of the 80s to suddenly have your house covered with bars you
Speaker:Oslowe: know i feel like that's it's you know it's not without a vacuum it's not in
Speaker:Oslowe: a vacuum it's it's not without a vacuum.
Speaker:Ashley: Yeah i know what you're saying there's there's there's yeah there's something there.
Speaker:Oslowe: I mean for me as a kid from that
Speaker:Oslowe: era you know only a little bit younger than the protagonists of the film like
Speaker:Oslowe: i remember watching that movie and thinking like oh yeah man like the neighbors
Speaker:Oslowe: that have that kind of bars on their windows like we never see those fucking
Speaker:Oslowe: weirdos you know this is in dc I mean,
Speaker:Oslowe: so like that was just there were some houses that had like Fort Knox bars,
Speaker:Oslowe: but you didn't think about them.
Speaker:Ashley: Yeah, it's really it's a good it's a good sort of analogy for a lot of.
Speaker:Ashley: Well, just all the fucking everything there. She puts all these bars and shit
Speaker:Ashley: on the windows and the locks on the doors and everything.
Speaker:Ashley: I think they're assuming this whole time that the killer is someone that they
Speaker:Ashley: don't know. Like, they're still assuming it's like some human man,
Speaker:Ashley: presumably, that is from somewhere else.
Speaker:Ashley: So they're becoming more insular and they're staying in their house and everything.
Speaker:Ashley: But the danger is what they actually created themselves.
Speaker:Ashley: There's, yeah. It's what they actually need protection from.
Speaker:Oslowe: It's such an exciting idea because it's such it's so ripe you know oh they thought
Speaker:Oslowe: they were doing the right thing and so they created this giant nightmare.
Speaker:Evan: And even when the mother gives her sort of her sort of uh testimony to her child
Speaker:Evan: as to what you know she pulls a little of course she's also saving the glove
Speaker:Evan: in her house which is also really fucking weird to begin with,
Speaker:Evan: really like that she has she's like
Speaker:Evan: yeah i just kept this like maybe if she hadn't kept it there he wouldn't
Speaker:Evan: have known what house to go to you idiot i don't know um
Speaker:Evan: but like when she's giving this whole like testimony about it she doesn't even
Speaker:Evan: really have any there's no like real sense of self reflection on their actions
Speaker:Evan: and her sort of responses let's put bars on the door you know to keep Freddy
Speaker:Evan: Krueger away. The boogeyman.
Speaker:Oslowe: It's okay, honey. Mommy killed him. Mommy killed him.
Speaker:Evan: She's not even phased by that statement either. He's like, were you drunk, mom, when you did that?
Speaker:Ashley: Do you think that's why she drinks?
Speaker:Evan: Maybe.
Speaker:Oslowe: I mean, I think it's kind of implied, especially since once Freddie is gone,
Speaker:Oslowe: Mom is cured. I just think I won't be drinking anymore.
Speaker:Oslowe: I just don't feel like it. You know, that wonderful little, huh?
Speaker:Evan: Well, speaking of that, so I want to talk about the end of the film because
Speaker:Evan: there's things, different takes, opinions, thoughts.
Speaker:Evan: And let's say excluding the sequels, which completely changed the ending of the film.
Speaker:Evan: So that's why you kind of have to take this film on its own and not as part
Speaker:Evan: of its, you know, seven or eight, seven part franchise.
Speaker:Evan: So at the very end, we have, you know, the mother is killed in her bed.
Speaker:Evan: The father witnesses this.
Speaker:Evan: Still doesn't seem to be like, oh, oh, so you were right all along.
Speaker:Evan: Like, doesn't give her any due credit still. and then we sort of have this moment
Speaker:Evan: where nancy leaves the house and she gets into the car
Speaker:Evan: and she with her friends that are murdered that we
Speaker:Evan: know johnny depp and and so forth and then the the roof of the car convertible
Speaker:Evan: has the the freddy black uh black green and red you know sweater and then the
Speaker:Evan: mom is in the front of the front of the door like kind of like not a care in
Speaker:Evan: the world not you know quit drinking and then she gets sucked through the the
Speaker:Evan: uh you know with the very obvious dummy but.
Speaker:Oslowe: One of the worst special effects.
Speaker:Evan: Well it wasn't the original ending of.
Speaker:Oslowe: That decade no yeah.
Speaker:Evan: The original ending was for her to just do for nothing to happen to her.
Speaker:Ashley: Yeah it's just it's because i mean and obviously there's sequels and i think she shows up.
Speaker:Evan: In like the.
Speaker:Ashley: Third one or something nancy does so it's like all right
Speaker:Ashley: so what was that there but yeah they get into the
Speaker:Ashley: the freddy striped car and that's
Speaker:Ashley: supposed to aside from the fact that all these people are dead and they're
Speaker:Ashley: here um but the
Speaker:Ashley: fake out at the end is pretty consistent with the genre for the time too you
Speaker:Ashley: know yes like so you're on the on the boat just kidding got you i was in the
Speaker:Ashley: lake like that's starting with carrie yeah yeah so do you think that's why they added that just to.
Speaker:Oslowe: I know that Wes wanted it to end with, and she just drives off with her friends
Speaker:Oslowe: into the fog, and it's a little bit weird, because that's what Wes thought was
Speaker:Oslowe: a good ending to a movie about dreams.
Speaker:Oslowe: Bob Shea hated that. My recollection from reading is that Bob really needed
Speaker:Oslowe: it to have a stinger, because that's how you end a horror movie in 1984, is you have a stinger.
Speaker:Oslowe: and so I guess they tried it a bunch of different ways and what we've got I
Speaker:Oslowe: believe the quote from Wes was that we all thought that the mom being dragged
Speaker:Oslowe: through the door looked so ridiculous we had to use it,
Speaker:Oslowe: sort of a you know what fine you want something Bob here here are you happy now there ending it with.
Speaker:Evan: The girls jumping rope is just perfect like that is the perfect.
Speaker:Oslowe: Ending it is a great great moment yeah i.
Speaker:Evan: Mean if you stop watching the movie.
Speaker:Oslowe: 20 seconds earlier.
Speaker:Evan: You can have the ending you you want yeah but but do you think that in his mind
Speaker:Evan: the idea was like you don't know if like are we still in the dream.
Speaker:Oslowe: And you.
Speaker:Evan: Know i'm some kind of staying it's like it's kind of staying the obvious.
Speaker:Oslowe: I absolutely think he wanted that though i mean i really,
Speaker:Oslowe: that's exactly what he was going for it's um i also wouldn't be surprised i
Speaker:Oslowe: have a a strong suspicion that Wes Craven might have been a big fan of Let's Scare Jessica to Death,
Speaker:Oslowe: which I'm guessing from your blank faces you haven't seen.
Speaker:Oslowe: So we'll have to do that one next. Because talk about a movie that...
Speaker:Oslowe: Let's Scare Jessica to Death, 1971.
Speaker:Oslowe: It is a movie about three people from New York City, maybe, who move out to
Speaker:Oslowe: the countryside to get away from it all, and things go there from there.
Speaker:Oslowe: And it's possibly one of my like four favorite movies of all time.
Speaker:Oslowe: It is, I think, one of the most important and uniquely American.
Speaker:Oslowe: Sorry, the cat is full wilding right now.
Speaker:Oslowe: Important horror films, American horror films of the 70s. Like,
Speaker:Oslowe: Let's Scare Jessica to Death, Messiah of Evil, Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
Speaker:Oslowe: Those are like the sort of American horror story 70s.
Speaker:Oslowe: like but that's that's my own convoluted um personal mythology but um i think
Speaker:Oslowe: that nightmare on elm street did it different um,
Speaker:Oslowe: And it did it different at a time when there was a lot of same-same.
Speaker:Oslowe: And I just don't think we can ignore how iconic that look is.
Speaker:Oslowe: I mean, Robert Englund's makeup and the hat and the silhouette, it's phenomenal stuff.
Speaker:Evan: It took forever for him to get in and out of the makeup, apparently,
Speaker:Evan: and he would just like rip it off his face.
Speaker:Evan: Like, his face was completely raw from it. from it i think it said it took.
Speaker:Oslowe: Like three.
Speaker:Evan: Hour a two hours like a long time and it is.
Speaker:Oslowe: Liquid latex is really uncomfortable it is.
Speaker:Evan: Supremely scary i mean it is not uh like you think about other ones where there's
Speaker:Evan: a mask like he is like he doesn't have a mask because he's scary without it.
Speaker:Oslowe: Which i think is also yeah space well i
Speaker:Oslowe: mean and that's that really sets freddie apart he's not
Speaker:Oslowe: some giant mumbling hillbilly you know
Speaker:Oslowe: with the sack he's this feral snarky
Speaker:Oslowe: he knows your name yeah i mean
Speaker:Oslowe: that alone like just gives him that extra level
Speaker:Oslowe: of he knows your fucking name
Speaker:Oslowe: but yeah no i mean he was he was a completely different slasher and changed
Speaker:Oslowe: the landscape of we wouldn't have some of the the horror villains like the wish
Speaker:Oslowe: master without freddie not a chance of hell terrifier not without freddie we wouldn't have had a.
Speaker:Evan: Home alone either because of the little booby trap inside the house no i don't know.
Speaker:Ashley: I like when she said when uh when her and glenn.
Speaker:Oslowe: Are talking survival yeah.
Speaker:Ashley: It's like i think we all.
Speaker:Oslowe: Are nancy.
Speaker:Ashley: To some extent i just love.
Speaker:Oslowe: When the hammer falls down and just.
Speaker:Evan: Nails him right like in the you know the chest or something.
Speaker:Oslowe: Yeah you also notice though that she tells her dad in 10 minutes Come wake me
Speaker:Oslowe: up in 10 minutes. And then she goes and starts setting all the booby traps.
Speaker:Oslowe: And you go, oh, I think this edit.
Speaker:Oslowe: I think maybe this was earlier. And we're just going to ignore how long it takes
Speaker:Oslowe: you to file the light bulb to make one of the most ingenious home landmines I've ever seen used.
Speaker:Ashley: Yeah, that's that's insane.
Speaker:Evan: I just.
Speaker:Ashley: What was she? What was she like that? I don't think you could get that book
Speaker:Ashley: at most public school libraries at this point. i.
Speaker:Evan: Also kept thinking about like you know her knowing approximately how long and
Speaker:Evan: i think they show her in the dream looking at a watch but like i thought in dreams.
Speaker:Ashley: You don't like see.
Speaker:Evan: Your watch i don't know.
Speaker:Ashley: Some people i've read about this i've read
Speaker:Ashley: about this most people usually you can't you can't read you can't perceive numbers
Speaker:Ashley: because the part of your brain that processes language like written language
Speaker:Ashley: and and symbols like that it's just not really there and and like doing stuff
Speaker:Ashley: when you're asleep it's like this is my time off sometimes you can but that
Speaker:Ashley: did stand out to me too oh so you have your,
Speaker:Ashley: in your dream interesting and i mean it worked it worked i don't know why they didn't just i guess,
Speaker:Ashley: dream time is usually different though in movies right like it takes
Speaker:Ashley: so much longer like a like five minutes in a dream it's like it's like a second
Speaker:Ashley: or something yeah the time is linear yeah yeah yeah it's kind of all over the
Speaker:Ashley: place the thing i do think that kind of like the the scary elements of this
Speaker:Ashley: movie there's a lot of them that we've talked about i think,
Speaker:Ashley: from the other side of it if the parents were at all like
Speaker:Ashley: interested in keeping their kids alive the thing that would be
Speaker:Ashley: scary to them would be that like when they're asleep in
Speaker:Ashley: their dreams is the one time they can't be protected and that's
Speaker:Ashley: like as i'm watching it as somebody who's thinking like oh i have a kid like
Speaker:Ashley: that's fucking scary like somebody who specifically wants to kill children obviously
Speaker:Ashley: scary but then they come back after you killed them and they and they want to
Speaker:Ashley: kill him the one time that you can't do anything about it that's fucking yeah
Speaker:Ashley: it's incredibly frightening well.
Speaker:Oslowe: And all of us as as parents i believe we've all soothed a child from a nightmare.
Speaker:Ashley: Or
Speaker:Oslowe: You know i know i have seen one of my kids responding as if they're in a nightmare
Speaker:Oslowe: and that urge to sort of reach out and be so okay buddy yeah you're okay you
Speaker:Oslowe: know it's dreams or yeah that's that's some scary shit i don't have jurisdiction there.
Speaker:Ashley: Yeah yeah yeah the whole thing is kind of just the stuff that parents and people
Speaker:Ashley: in general might do thinking they're protecting their children and if making
Speaker:Ashley: so much much making them so much worse,
Speaker:Ashley: you can't even possibly imagine you.
Speaker:Evan: Know i mean i'd like to think that the problems would have been much less terrible
Speaker:Evan: if they all had had a little sit down and discuss their feelings and their dreams
Speaker:Evan: in that very first scene when they're getting into school.
Speaker:Ashley: That would have been so much helpful.
Speaker:Evan: But you know rod isn't going to do that he doesn't talk about his feelings with his friends.
Speaker:Ashley: Yeah no and it's going to be at least another five years to six years before
Speaker:Ashley: people start like joking about therapy in movies like that so they're definitely
Speaker:Ashley: not going to talk about their feelings, which is a shame.
Speaker:Evan: Did they mention therapy? No. Okay.
Speaker:Ashley: No.
Speaker:Evan: I think I've watched another movie just yesterday where they mentioned therapy, so...
Speaker:Evan: Wouldn't it make sense in this?
Speaker:Ashley: Apparently they don't have stop, drop, and roll either, at least not until the
Speaker:Ashley: following year. He's hauling ass up those stairs.
Speaker:Oslowe: That was a prolonged burn, too.
Speaker:Ashley: That was a long burn.
Speaker:Oslowe: Whoever did that stunt, kudos.
Speaker:Evan: I also love when they're following him upstairs and there's the footprints of
Speaker:Evan: fire, the little fire footprints.
Speaker:Evan: It's like the little stuff like that just adds to the dimension of just...
Speaker:Evan: this guy seems very real.
Speaker:Evan: Like he was walking with the fire and it was just creating these little craters. I don't know.
Speaker:Oslowe: No, look, Wes Craven was a really, really visually inventive director.
Speaker:Oslowe: And I think he had some phenomenal ideas. And this is one of the times where
Speaker:Oslowe: he was able to tell the story he wanted to in a way where I don't think he was
Speaker:Oslowe: too upset with the, the final, the final version.
Speaker:Evan: I think I saw something that the, the glove that they created actually did cut
Speaker:Evan: someone at some point like they had like a stunt glove and uh actually did like
Speaker:Evan: slice someone and that's uh and.
Speaker:Oslowe: They had a.
Speaker:Evan: Hero yeah that's such a good weapon too
Speaker:Evan: like the i don't know about you but one of the most horrifying sounds
Speaker:Evan: to me is probably to most people is like the sound
Speaker:Evan: of like scraping like you know like a fork on a plate or something like that
Speaker:Evan: like the sound in my head immediately when you in the very first scene when
Speaker:Evan: he's going after tina is just that to me is almost scarier than anything like
Speaker:Evan: just like this having to run away from that sound i don't know maybe that's just me but it's like no.
Speaker:Ashley: No it really is it makes you it sets you in this like edge yeah you're just
Speaker:Ashley: total unease from the minute the credits start that opening credits sequence
Speaker:Ashley: is fantastic it's just so like intense yeah.
Speaker:Evan: We didn't even talk about the music like the synthy music
Speaker:Evan: in this also is oh my god i mean
Speaker:Evan: i think of all the iconic sort of horror you
Speaker:Evan: know uh interludes or the like theme music if you will like the synth in this
Speaker:Evan: is just uh i mean it's also 1994 so it's different than you know halloween in
Speaker:Evan: the 70s it's not john carpenter like you know banging out something but it's
Speaker:Evan: like has its place as far as the iconic uh horror music.
Speaker:Oslowe: No, it's a great score. It's one of the Bernstein's.
Speaker:Evan: Charles Bernstein, maybe?
Speaker:Oslowe: Yeah, I think so. Terrific score. The Freddie theme is it.
Speaker:Evan: Right. I think that must be what they always call them.
Speaker:Oslowe: Wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah.
Speaker:Evan: And then what's the nursery rhyme? It's like the one to buckle my shoe,
Speaker:Evan: but they make it as the Freddie Kruger.
Speaker:Ashley: Oh, yeah.
Speaker:Oslowe: And they changed it a little bit, yeah. And it's a great rhyme,
Speaker:Oslowe: too. It's like genuinely creepy and it's catchy the way that a rhythm needs
Speaker:Oslowe: to be, you know, for that kind of jump rope.
Speaker:Oslowe: So one, two, Freddy's coming for you. Three, four, go and lock the door.
Speaker:Oslowe: But we know that doesn't do anything.
Speaker:Ashley: No. And the crucifix definitely does not. I don't think that helps at all.
Speaker:Evan: I was thinking about the crucifix a few times in this and like the idea of religion.
Speaker:Evan: I didn't have much to really go on other than just sort of like the idea that
Speaker:Evan: religion just can't save you in a way that, you know, in some movies,
Speaker:Evan: like they play more on like, oh, my faith will save me.
Speaker:Evan: They don't even like bother for that, like the pretense in this.
Speaker:Evan: They just kind of visually show it to you. And it's almost like a joke.
Speaker:Oslowe: I think that's where the angry young man that Wes Craven was when he made Last
Speaker:Oslowe: House on the Left and The Hills Have Eyes kind of poked through again.
Speaker:Oslowe: His kind of disdain for the idea of, oh, this will protect me,
Speaker:Oslowe: this stalwart symbol of the system, of the patriarchy, of how it's supposed to be.
Speaker:Oslowe: I think that Craven, I think he was a little bit cognizant of the dark humor
Speaker:Oslowe: in that kind of iconography.
Speaker:Ashley: Oh, I was just going to say to even like even to add on to that,
Speaker:Ashley: the way that she actually gets
Speaker:Ashley: one over on and she ends up surviving is is through an Eastern practice,
Speaker:Ashley: which is what Glenn told her about dreaming and how you take the power away
Speaker:Ashley: from what's haunting you by just ignoring it. And sorry.
Speaker:Ashley: Yeah.
Speaker:Ashley: I totally get what you're saying.
Speaker:Evan: Apparently when, um, Craven's father like left this family, his mother toward
Speaker:Evan: turned towards like a super religious Baptist faith.
Speaker:Evan: And Craven did not like that when he was in college.
Speaker:Evan: He apparently started making, he went to like a Christian school and was,
Speaker:Evan: was making, I think Wheaton college or something like that.
Speaker:Evan: And it was a religious school and he wrote some story that was against the religious doctrine.
Speaker:Evan: He was basically left with the choice of like staying and keeping with
Speaker:Evan: this faith or leaving and doing something else and
Speaker:Evan: of course we you know the rest was history he obviously did not stay thanks
Speaker:Evan: yeah and so like yeah I don't know it's been a while since I've seen some of
Speaker:Evan: his like the first couple of movies of his so I don't know how those play in
Speaker:Evan: it but to me it's sort of like you know forget religion you know forget that
Speaker:Evan: it's not not gonna play here no.
Speaker:Oslowe: I think that's definitely an accurate read I think that for Craven religion is something that,
Speaker:Oslowe: characters might try and hide behind but he's not going to give it any kind of special power.
Speaker:Oslowe: It's just not his style.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah, but I like that what you said, Sperk, that Nancy all...
Speaker:Evan: Well, maybe you didn't exactly say this, but she also doesn't give the power
Speaker:Evan: to Freddie when she locks away her fear.
Speaker:Evan: I'm not afraid of you anymore and I can make it go away.
Speaker:Evan: That's not really logical, but in some ways somehow it is.
Speaker:Ashley: Yeah, he turns into sparkles and just falls.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah.
Speaker:Ashley: Yeah.
Speaker:Evan: There's one other thing I was going to mention, but I can't think of what it
Speaker:Evan: was about Craven in the movie.
Speaker:Evan: But I think, yeah, and they filmed this in 32 days, which is also crazy, the whole thing.
Speaker:Ashley: Wow.
Speaker:Evan: I mean, they only had, you know, like you said, like just a million dollars
Speaker:Evan: after film. well i think you said it was 700 000 to actually film the movie
Speaker:Evan: to make the movie and the 500 gallons of blood they used yeah.
Speaker:Oslowe: And every drop on screen every drop on.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah they weren't gonna the waste
Speaker:Evan: any of that too and i think i mentioned briefly earlier to me like the,
Speaker:Evan: scariest visual in this that's i think maybe even might even be the poster is
Speaker:Evan: the or maybe it's not the poster actually it's like when the hand comes out
Speaker:Evan: of the the bathtub you know and i feel like i I remember seeing this when I
Speaker:Evan: was maybe nine or 10 and being like, I don't think I can take baths anymore.
Speaker:Evan: You know, like this, this really, I can't think of any movie where there's like
Speaker:Evan: such a freaky bath scene.
Speaker:Evan: the top of my head.
Speaker:Oslowe: Because it's an intrusion too because that is a private.
Speaker:Evan: Space that.
Speaker:Oslowe: Is a safe space you're in your.
Speaker:Evan: Back you don't usually see nothing.
Speaker:Oslowe: Can be in the bathtub with me.
Speaker:Evan: Like there's creepy things in bathrooms like in a mirror things happening but
Speaker:Evan: you're like literally taking a bath i can't think of any other like tub murder
Speaker:Evan: scene racking my brain well she is not murdered in this scene.
Speaker:Oslowe: No no she's stalked she's not she's not god.
Speaker:Evan: Should have grabbed his glove and then he would have lost his glove.
Speaker:Ashley: True. She could have kept it like the hat.
Speaker:Oslowe: Yeah, and she could have just kept it in the boiler down in the basement.
Speaker:Ashley: I still can't. The fact that she just pulled out this old hat out of nowhere.
Speaker:Ashley: They know she didn't have it when she goes in and they're still like, where'd you get that?
Speaker:Ashley: Like she literally just told you she pulled it out of her dream. Like stop pretending.
Speaker:Evan: Doesn't the mom put the hat in the freezer?
Speaker:Ashley: She like puts it in a drawer. I don't know. Maybe the freezer.
Speaker:Ashley: She puts it in. Yeah, in the kitchen. That shit's pretty dirty.
Speaker:Evan: You might want to wash that.
Speaker:Ashley: She just really wants to keep these things because she lied about getting rid
Speaker:Ashley: of it, too, right before that. She's like, I threw it away.
Speaker:Oslowe: She put it under a bottle of vodka. No one will find it.
Speaker:Ashley: Yeah. She probably thought she threw it away and forgot.
Speaker:Evan: Or she put the bottle of vodka under the hat with then like another to hide
Speaker:Evan: it. It would be like a nip, though.
Speaker:Evan: The full bottle, a full fifth, wouldn't fit under the...
Speaker:Ashley: Now you're Mr. Vodka.
Speaker:Evan: Like Mr. Peanut, is that what you're thinking? Like the hat's on top of the...
Speaker:Oslowe: Yeah, once she's wearing a hat.
Speaker:Ashley: It's Mr.
Speaker:Oslowe: Vodka.
Speaker:Ashley: Yeah. She's just a little guy. One thing, too, she has like the no-dos or whatever.
Speaker:Ashley: I don't know why. Why do they have like trucker pills in their cabinet in the bathroom?
Speaker:Ashley: Very strange. But also it's the 80s.
Speaker:Oslowe: From my dad to the cop.
Speaker:Ashley: Oh, that's right. But also then it's the 80s.
Speaker:Ashley: I don't know. Maybe nobody's offered her any, but she's drinking a lot of coffee.
Speaker:Ashley: I can't believe she couldn't find any Coke. I don't know. I know it's like a
Speaker:Ashley: separate neighborhood.
Speaker:Evan: Well, Rod was dead. He would have been the one for her.
Speaker:Ashley: That's true. Oh, yeah. That's why they had to take him out. He would have been the Kinect. Bummer.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah.
Speaker:Ashley: All right, people.
Speaker:Oslowe: Elk Street Connection.
Speaker:Ashley: You know, we don't see his dream either, do we?
Speaker:Evan: No.
Speaker:Oslowe: We only spend time in Tina's dream and then Nancy's dream. And it's pretty hard to tell them apart.
Speaker:Ashley: Yeah, it's a very, it's the same.
Speaker:Oslowe: And I do think that that's intentional. I think that that adds to the overall
Speaker:Oslowe: dreaminess, if you will, of the entire film.
Speaker:Evan: And just not showing like any of the male characters dreams too.
Speaker:Evan: It's almost like they're shrouded with more of a mysterious, I don't know.
Speaker:Oslowe: I mean, you could you could argue that they're doing what, you know, Clover,
Speaker:Oslowe: Professor Clover suggested, which is that we are getting too much of the women
Speaker:Oslowe: being stalked and tormented and not enough of the men, though I'd argue that
Speaker:Oslowe: both of the guys have pretty gruesome ends.
Speaker:Oslowe: It's not like, you know, they're playing with puppies.
Speaker:Ashley: Yeah, but they do feel sort of incidental to the female characters.
Speaker:Oslowe: It doesn't have the same weight. Yeah. And for as much as I love Wes Craven
Speaker:Oslowe: as a filmmaker, and I'm fascinated by him as like a philosopher,
Speaker:Oslowe: I do think that he played with the same sort of boring gender tropes that most
Speaker:Oslowe: of the filmmakers of that era did, because that was what was the scene.
Speaker:Oslowe: That was the sort of level of writing that was permitted, that was actualized.
Speaker:Oslowe: I mean, there are exceptions, obviously.
Speaker:Oslowe: But I don't think that a lot of the horror directors were really thinking outside of the patriarchy.
Speaker:Ashley: Yeah, but he did turn it on its head a little bit, though.
Speaker:Oslowe: Oh, he played with it.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah, he definitely did what he was permitted in the time. I mean,
Speaker:Evan: I don't know what I don't I didn't read anything about like how Bob Shay like
Speaker:Evan: influenced anything except for the ending.
Speaker:Evan: You wonder if he had to see it and be like, oh, yeah, you know,
Speaker:Evan: I don't know what kind of notes he was giving him.
Speaker:Evan: You know, Craven was pretty well established. He should have just told him the
Speaker:Evan: fuck off. But, you know, he had the money.
Speaker:Oslowe: That's the thing it's really hard to argue with the boss any.
Speaker:Evan: Uh any last uh notes from either of you on uh freddie.
Speaker:Oslowe: I actually struggled with uh
Speaker:Oslowe: sleep paralysis for years and there was a period when i was a young person where
Speaker:Oslowe: i would say that friday the 13th was my favorite slasher franchise but Freddy
Speaker:Oslowe: was my favorite slasher because there was something genuinely scary about Freddy.
Speaker:Oslowe: You know, like you can get away from Jason or Michael probably maybe,
Speaker:Oslowe: but you can't really get away from Freddy.
Speaker:Oslowe: And that to me is genuinely scary.
Speaker:Oslowe: He's the villain. You can't really get away from because you're going to sleep
Speaker:Oslowe: sooner or later. you're gonna sleep.
Speaker:Evan: That's true yeah you could just fly to another country how's how's uh how's
Speaker:Evan: jason gonna get there right michael myers he's gonna what he's gonna grab a bus ticket you know i.
Speaker:Oslowe: Just stay away from his sister i'm fine i.
Speaker:Evan: Think that is what makes it genuinely such a different level that
Speaker:Evan: it's like bring it back to the beginning of just like the psych the psychological
Speaker:Evan: supernatural element whereas yes michael myers is kind of supernaturally in
Speaker:Evan: the fact that he can't die i guess you could argue the same thing when they
Speaker:Evan: just go off the rails with jason and he can go to space and, you know, whatever.
Speaker:Evan: But as originally constructed, he's just sort of like an indestructible man,
Speaker:Evan: whereas this is just a specter you cannot...
Speaker:Ashley: Yeah, a vengeful spirit. That's pretty scary.
Speaker:Oslowe: Freddy starts at the next level. Most of those other guys start and they're
Speaker:Oslowe: a pretty human-ish monster.
Speaker:Oslowe: Freddy, from the get-go, is something different.
Speaker:Evan: That does make it scary.
Speaker:Ashley: I'm glad you suggested this one. This is your pick because, uh,
Speaker:Ashley: It was fun. I'm glad I had the opportunity to watch it again and actually pay
Speaker:Ashley: attention and think about it. Yes.
Speaker:Evan: There was another movie I had originally feel like maybe months ago I had mentioned to you, Oslo.
Speaker:Evan: It was the, not Babysitter Massacre, Slumber Party.
Speaker:Oslowe: Slumber Party Massacre. Oh,
Speaker:Oslowe: smart. The original film is one of the great slasher films of the 1980s.
Speaker:Oslowe: it's written by rita may brown as a
Speaker:Oslowe: satire of slasher films roger corman
Speaker:Oslowe: read the script and famously didn't get the joke
Speaker:Oslowe: so he just greenlit it as a slasher and the director the woman who got to direct
Speaker:Oslowe: it this is the only slasher franchise where all of the films have been written
Speaker:Oslowe: by women and directed by women um and the movie manages to balance what you
Speaker:Oslowe: expect from an 80s slasher,
Speaker:Oslowe: with being really fucking funny and making fun of what you expect from an 80s slasher.
Speaker:Oslowe: Honestly, Slumber Party Massacre was Scream before Scream.
Speaker:Oslowe: So... It passes the Bechdel test, too.
Speaker:Ashley: Oh, that's going on the list.
Speaker:Oslowe: Oh, it passes the Bechdel test with flying colors.
Speaker:Evan: That and Black Crisp was both, too.
Speaker:Oslowe: It also... Beautifully. Beautifully. Yeah, no. Slumber Party Massacre...
Speaker:Oslowe: The original is phenomenal. There's a sequel that is worth watching because it's just bug fuck.
Speaker:Oslowe: Slumber Party Massacre Part 2 is just insane and kind of has to be seen to be
Speaker:Oslowe: believed. It's also deeply queer.
Speaker:Oslowe: Like the first one is, but then the second one just sort of goes to the next
Speaker:Oslowe: level and says, oh, you thought that one was gay. Oh, honey.
Speaker:Oslowe: Oh, honey. And then in like 2019 or 2020,
Speaker:Oslowe: there was a made for the sci-fi channel Slumber Party Massacre that manages
Speaker:Oslowe: to be a modern update of the original film, plays with gender roles,
Speaker:Oslowe: plays with what your expectation is, and actually gives us the male-dominated
Speaker:Oslowe: version of a slumber party scene of beefcakes having pillow fights and spraying
Speaker:Oslowe: each other with like soda.
Speaker:Oslowe: while the girls go, is this what they think we do?
Speaker:Oslowe: So it's that kind of movie. So I love the Slumber Party Massacre franchises, obviously.
Speaker:Oslowe: They're a little bit campy and a little bit queer and a little bit wonderful.
Speaker:Evan: I have not seen the second or the updated or the newer version, only the original.
Speaker:Oslowe: You should. You should. I mean, the original's great.
Speaker:Oslowe: The original is amazing. Just for the ending, But, like, the other two are also
Speaker:Oslowe: very worth checking out.
Speaker:Ashley: See, that's what I, this is, this sounds like an excellent pick for me,
Speaker:Ashley: which does not surprise me, because you, you just, you just know.
Speaker:Oslowe: I got you, bud.
Speaker:Ashley: Yeah, and that's.
Speaker:Evan: Yeah, I've just added Let's Scare Jessica to Death. And then the sequels to
Speaker:Evan: Slumber Party Master to my October, well, I'll watch a horror movie,
Speaker:Evan: it doesn't have to be October, but I watch extra horror movies. know but.
Speaker:Ashley: In october i do like around the around the halloween season i do especially then like,
Speaker:Ashley: a campy horror flick like a like a kind of goofy slasher i like something that
Speaker:Ashley: it's gonna it's gonna be a little it's obviously it's gonna be messed up people
Speaker:Ashley: are gonna be getting killed but you know what we're also gonna have fun with
Speaker:Ashley: it everybody's gonna have.
Speaker:Evan: A good time i need to watch actually the original i'll just what i'm gonna do
Speaker:Evan: is just watch all all them you know in a row you know not the same sitting perhaps
Speaker:Evan: but in order just to maybe maybe be in the same thing we'll see um but maybe maybe you'll all.
Speaker:Oslowe: I need is some speed and.
Speaker:Evan: A diaper yeah uh but maybe we'll uh return this uh this trio return to one of
Speaker:Evan: those uh summer party massacre or something but oslo and ashley it's been a
Speaker:Evan: pleasure as always to have you as this little horror horror trio.
Speaker:Ashley: Thank you so much.
Speaker:Oslowe: Thank you for having me. Yeah. It was a great pleasure.
Speaker:Evan: Check out all these horror films, whether, you know, we like horror or not.
Speaker:Evan: I think that, well, I might cut this, but do you think that Freddie and Amber
Speaker:Evan: Elm Street is a movie that you would like, even if you're not like a big horror fan?
Speaker:Evan: That's a weird question. Meaning like it's...
Speaker:Oslowe: It's 2025. So I feel like it's 2025.
Speaker:Oslowe: We're a long way from when this was a cutting-edge, genuinely frightening thing.
Speaker:Oslowe: I feel like for someone who wants the nostalgia of a Stranger Things,
Speaker:Oslowe: but to go to the source material, I think they could really enjoy Nightmare on Elm Street.
Speaker:Oslowe: But it's not like the first thing I would recommend to somebody, probably.
Speaker:Ashley: I would agree. I would think, like, if somebody is wanting to start getting
Speaker:Ashley: into some horror movies, probably recommend some more recent things.
Speaker:Ashley: And then when they're ready to, you know, take a look back and see where did we come from?
Speaker:Evan: Yeah, sometimes if you go straight to those campy 80s movies,
Speaker:Evan: you can be turned off. You know, I can understand.
Speaker:Oslowe: Yeah.
Speaker:Evan: I mean, I like them. I very much like them, but I'm not everybody.
Speaker:Oslowe: Who doesn't love a little blood rage?
Speaker:Ashley: Yeah, this feels like, honestly, this movie, Friday the 13th,
Speaker:Ashley: so many of these feel like drive-in movies.
Speaker:Evan: This would be a great drive-in movie.
Speaker:Ashley: This is also a good summer one. Yeah, and if you have a drive-in theater near
Speaker:Ashley: you, I'm lucky enough to have one nearby.
Speaker:Ashley: They usually play newer movies. But if you have one near you,
Speaker:Ashley: take advantage, whether or not they're playing horror movies,
Speaker:Ashley: because they're very few and far between.
Speaker:Evan: Probably yours might play them for halloween though right would you think.
Speaker:Ashley: Um maybe i don't know they recently uh there's hopefully we will see they were
Speaker:Ashley: closed down for a while then they opened back up um so fingers.
Speaker:Evan: Crossed but.
Speaker:Ashley: Yeah go to support your local uh independent theaters especially drive-ins your.
Speaker:Oslowe: Local indie theaters and drive-ins.
Speaker:Evan: And if you do have a video rental place which most people don't you could also
Speaker:Evan: support them and support at your public library as you said at the beginning
Speaker:Evan: of yeah yeah not not just to check out movies audiobooks regular books you know
Speaker:Evan: can check those out you probably have access to libby i highly recommend listening to books that way i.
Speaker:Ashley: Love libby yes i love.
Speaker:Evan: Um but yeah oslo and uh and ashley signing off for the second time that's the
Speaker:Evan: double goodbye uh we will catch you next time on left of the projector.
